7.62 x 54r Rifles

[BoogieMan]

What rifles were or are chambered in the very inexpensive and useful 7.62x54 other than the Mosin and the Draganov/VEPR? I wouldnt mind having an AR upper in this cartridge or some other sport type modern rifle.

[Gunplummer]

I did see Winchester style lever guns a few years ago. but I think they were not made by Winchester.

[Mobuck]

"I wouldnt mind having an AR upper in this cartridge or some other sport type modern rifle."
The AR 15 will not accept this length cartridge. I'm not sure the AR 10 will either, so that's VERY unlikely to happen nor would it likely function well. Simply designing a magazine that would feed would be a nightmarish task.
The cartridge is a dinosaur of the previous century with archaic design that doesn't lend itself to modern rifles. The oddball domed case head is unique.
If you spend enough money, you might find a Win 95 or 54(I think they made a few in 7.62R).

[rickyrick]

Rims.... They jack up the whole plot.

[Mike Weber]

There were a few Winchester model 1895 rifles built under contract to Czarist Russia in that chambering. Also the Romanian ROMAK PSL3 sniper rifle which was basically built on a a stretched AK reciever. Not sure why you would want an AR in this chambering as there is already AR platforms offered in 7.62X51 which is much more suitable to modern firearms. In terms of ballistics the 7.62X54R comes close to the performance of the 30-06 Springfield cartridge. However the 7.62X54R was built to an already obsolete rimmed cartridge design at its introduction and like the French 8X50R the cartridge does not cycle well through many magazine fed weapons such as some of the early machine guns in this chambering.

[BoogieMan]

I only used AR as an example. Could be any modern firearm. I would think that a lever gun such as the Winchester mentioned could easily be modified to accept it. I dont want to modify anything. I am merely asking the question because of the vast amount of very inexpensive ammo available. Where else can you get near 30-06 performance for $0.22 a shot? I have heard of tuned Mosin shooting MOA or better. The famed Dragunov only does slightly better than 2 MOA from what I hear and they run $$$$.

[Mosin-Marauder]

Zastava of Serbia makes a very high quality target rifle in the caliber with the scope base machined with the receiver, and is based closely on the Mauser action.


M07 Match
http://www.zastava-arms.rs/en/civili...ting-rifle-m07

I don't think it's being imported yet, I emailed them and they said to email Century about future imports.

[Mike Weber]

I'm not knocking the Mosin, I own one and have owned several of them over the years. One of them accounted for around 1000 lbs of meat in my freezer over the years I owned it. That said you most definately want to slug the bores on Mosins I've seen them ranging anywhere from .308 to .318 diameter The cheap 7.62X54 ammo is mostly Milsurp and berdan primed. I believe that eventually this supply will dry up as hoarders are buying it up by the pallet load and our government is talking import bans. Commercial boxer primed ammo is available but not for the low prices of the milsurp ammo. I just don't see it as commercially viable to chamber modern rifles for this cartridge.

[Pathfinder45]

I was under the impression that more 1895 Winchesters were built for the Russians than all other model 95's combined. Eventually, the contract with Winchester died as the Russian Revolution took over the country. That left some of these rifles in the U.S. that never got shipped out.

[Mike Weber]

I was under the impression that more 1895 Winchesters were built for the Russians than all other model 95's combined. Eventually, the contract with Winchester died as the Russian Revolution took over the country. That left some of these rifles in the U.S. that never got shipped out.

That is probably correct Winchester also produced model 1895's in 30-40 Krag and 30-06 Springfield in the hope of landing military contracts that never materialized. Remington was producing Mosins under contract for Czarist Russia right up until the revolution many of those were later converted to 30-06 Springfield and are unsafe to shoot.

[bamaranger]

There is an article on the Win '95, chambered in the x54r cartridge, in the "Rifleman" this month.

As to the original question regards chamberings:
-the Win '95, noted
-as noted the Mosin family, as well as the carbine derivatives
-the Draganov, Tiger family (NOT a PSL of Vepr they are different)
-the PSL and Vepr's
-the Tokarev (can't think of model) WWII infantry SA rifle


I'll bet their are some com bloc/soviet type sporters, but I cannot advise on same.

[44 AMP]

Tokarev SVT 40

along with all the previous mentioned rifles.

I did get a kick out of this...

What rifles were or are chambered in the very inexpensive and useful 7.62x54

Because I recall a time when the answer to that was "none", based on the word "inexpensive".

There was a time, and a long time too, when Russian/Soviet rounds were not inexpensive, and were not common ammo. A time when .303 British, 8mm Mauser, and even .30-06 (Surplus) were inexpensive.

Small point of order; the 7.62x54R case design does not "date from the last century", it dates from the century before that. (1891)

[Mike Weber]

Because I recall a time when the answer to that was "none", based on the word "inexpensive".

There was a time, and a long time too, when Russian/Soviet rounds were not inexpensive, and were not common ammo. A time when .303 British, 8mm Mauser, and even .30-06 (Surplus) were inexpensive.

I recall those days as well. When the only readily available source in the U.S. for 7.62X54R ammo. was from Norma at around $30 a box

[stubbicatt]

You might consider a SVT 40. Sweet shooting rifles, and the ingenious magazine design defies rimlock. I've not experienced any rim lock in many years of shooting the rifle, and I can charge the magazine from stripper clips of staggered rounds or however they go in. Somehow the magazine just sorts it all out.



Many really unique features, including fluted chamber, and a neat safety device that doesn't allow the rifle to fire unless the bolt is closed - helpful in preventing out of battery discharges.

Mosin Marauder, that M07 looks very interesting.

[skizzums]

i think the best thing out right now, that is readily available anyway, is the VEPR from atlantic arms. but i like my mosin's, espiially if you find a mismatch that has a nice barrel that you don't mind copping up and re-stocking. fun projects and very affordable.
i like the thumbhole with the long barrel like this one, but out of stock ATM, but they come and go, just keep an eye on it. but they have shoter barrels with AK furniture usually in stock.
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/comp....html?Itemid=0

this 20" seems to be the only one in stock atm, i'd be okay with 20, just not the 16"

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/comp....html?Itemid=0

[Model12Win]

WHOA!!!

I just checked Gunbroker, SVT-40s have SOARED in price over the years. They are now bringing close to $1800 at auction.

There really aren't many gun chambered for this round that are imported into the U.S., I don't know why we can't get a reputable SVD clone for a decent price... I'd love to have one but the few Norinco and authentic Russian SVDs in this country are TREMENDOUSLY expensive.

[skizzums]

i have a friend with a true druganov and one with a PSL, both less accurate than i would expect for a gun pulling thousands of dollars. my buddy got the PSL a few years back when they did a big import for just over 600$(so he says). but those old drug's are so freakin pretty

here are new svd's for a decent price, of course sold out atm as well, but again, they will be back
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/comp....html?Itemid=0

[Armed_Chicagoan]

If you did find a Winchester '95 in 7.62x54R I don't think you'd be able to shoot the cheap milsurp ammo anyway, you'd need a blunt nose bullet to keep the recoil from firing a round in the magazine.

[James K]

The Winchester 1895 has a box magazine. Winchester made c. 300,000 '95 model rifles for the Russians, far more than the civilian production, plus 175 million rounds of ammunition.

The Russian contract rifles are easily recognizable by having a stripper clip guide that accepts the M-N clip. The M-N clip is unusual in that it has to be removed manually, rather than being ejected when the bolt moves forward.

Jim

[Model12Win]

^ Same as on the Mosin Nagant itself, won't fly off like on a Mauser.

I wonder why the Russians didn't use the M1895 in WW2? Seems like the rate of fire would have been much higher than with the bolt action Mosin.

[Gaucho Gringo]

The Russians had a healthy respect for Winchester lever action rifles having got cut to pieces by Turkish troops armed with them in the late 1870's. Although the sheer weight of Russian manpower eventually won the Russian casualties were something like 20 to 1.

[Mike Irwin]

"There were a few Winchester model 1895 rifles built under contract to Czarist Russia in that chambering."

A few? More like most...

Over 300,000 Winchester 95s were made for Imperial Russia between 1915 and 1917, or about 70% of total Model 95 production.

Virtually all save for a few thousand were delivered, making the 7.62x54R probably the least common of all chamberings to find in the West.

[Mike Irwin]

"I wonder why the Russians didn't use the M1895 in WW2? Seems like the rate of fire would have been much higher than with the bolt action Mosin."

They did use some.

The Soviets even manufactured some new Model 95 clones and supplied them to the Republicans during the Spanish Civil War.

But...

The 95 was time consuming and expensive to make, and the Soviets already had several arsenals set up to manufacture the Moisin-Nagant.

Additionally, the Model 95 was a lot more tedious to care for, and the average Russian conscript (during either war) wasn't known for doing that, and in a lot of cases probably didn't know how to do it.

By the time World War II rolled around, a lot of the Winchester 95s from the first war had either been bled off (apparently a lot were in Finland when the Finns decided to declare independence), and many others were simply unserviceable.

[Mike Irwin]

"I just checked Gunbroker, SVT-40s have SOARED in price over the years. They are now bringing close to $1800 at auction."

Tell me about it. In the mid 1990s when the last big shipment of them came in they were selling for $300-$400.

I wanted to buy one, but I didn't have a steady job at the time...

[BoogieMan]

What is the difference between the VEPR and DRAGUNOV? I have never had the chance to compare them side by side. From what I can see the Drag is a milled receiver and the Vep looks more like a stamped AK thats stretched.