??? about Pyrodex P in .45LC

[Ifishsum]

I am a reloader but have never messed with black or Pyrodex in cartridges, and I'd kind of like to try some Pyrodex P loads in my Gaucho .45LC. From what I gather you simply fill the case enough that the bullet will compress the charge lightly when seating (or use a filler wad and less powder). Is it really that easy? They warn of not having airspace in the case, but don't give a reason - is that to avoid "ringing" the chamber, or some other reason?

It also seems to be prudent to use magnum primers, and BP lube on the bullets. The only lead bullets I have are hardcast 250gr LRNFP (.452), can these be used? I use them with smokeless and get a little leading now, would that get worse with Pyrodex?

Your experiences or insight appreciated....Thanks!

[sundance44s]

You do need to keep yer cases full by adding card board cut out cookies or else you can shoot full house loads about 35 to 37 grs .. air space can be dangerous as far as possible splitting the cases or worse with B/P or subs.... as long as you are sure the case is full you `ll get better consistent loads and won`t have the problems . useing Pyrodex and real black you`ll need to use bullets lubed with spg lube or food grade ( crisco and bees wax ) ..i use the cheap moly lube 200 gr bullets from oregon trail cabelas sells for around 24 bucks per 5oo rounds and load with 777 or APP powder because these subs will work with the moly lube just fine and these bullets come pre lubed with moly ... i`ve tried these with pyrodex and real black and they make a sticky mess ..i bought a few boxes of the spg grade lube bullets to load in my 45/70 with real black because i don`t shoot these very often .. and these bullets are expencive even in 45 colt .. if i was gonna load with pyrodex or real black i would buy bullets that come unlubed and do the lubeing myslf because of the expence ... or buy a mold and cast my own . eaither way you`ll get smoke and fire and some good dirty fun .

[sundance44s]

Almost forgot .. as far as primmers .. i have always used winchester large pistol primmer ... in my 45colt..45/70 ..and brass shotgun hulls too ... and never had a problem with them blowing out or failing to light the charge .

[Jim Watson]

Agree.
777 or APP is the way to get some smoke with less fuss and you can use hard wax smokeless lube bullets.
Real black needs correct lube and plenty of it, to the point there are getting to be bullet moulds made for the job.
Pyrodex is just nasty, it doesn't accumulate fouling like black, but what there is is actually more corrosive.

Ten years ago, the experts agreed you needed magnum primers to light a case full of black or fake. Now most shooters use standard primers and some are using pistol primers for .45-70 and larger to get mild ignition and better accuracy.

[Ifishsum]

Thanks for the replies. As far as powder volume, do I need to worry about overpressure or working up a BP load for a modern (smokeless) frame? It seems to me a modern case will have somewhat less capacity than the original balloon head cartridges, and this would give me some built in safety margin, but correct me if my thinking is flawed here. I'd rather be wrong than dead

I don't have a BP measure but the Lee 1.9cc dipper puts just the right amount of Pyrodex P into the case for 1/16" compression seating the bullets I have. The Lee chart for FFFg says this should be a 30.3 gr equivalent if I'm reading correctly....

[sundance44s]

You have it right ... just leave 1/16 from the top for seating the bullets ..i use very light compression .. seems like i get better groups that way .. but some guns like different loading practices .. just try `em untill you what your looking for in grouping .i use a light crimp just around the top of my cases , just enough to keep the bullets in place so the recoil from the fireing won`t work the rest of my bullets loose in the other chambers . About the most powder i can get in the 45 cases is 37gr by volume and thats with me useing light compression . i suppose i could get more in if i used a drop tube and more compression because i only use the 200 gr bullets .. with the heavier bullets you might not get 37 grs, in a 45 case and have room left to seat them .. i`ve only loaded the lighter bullets , there`s some folks on here that have i`m sure .

[timothy75]

You can shoot hard wax bullets with a pistol as long as you clean every 20 or so shots. Or if your shooting informally at close range you dont even need to do that, theres no danger but you accuracy will suffer is all. An easy fix is to buy lubed wads but dont go higher than 1.9cc or you'll get powder contamination and likely have a squib. So if you want to get started right away you certainly can and pick up the rest later. Have fun

[Ifishsum]

Thanks for the help! My plan is to load 10-15 and light em up, and see how much work it is to clean up. Sure sounds like fun to make big smoke once in a while

[sundance44s]

Clean up isn`t as bad as you`ve heard ... heck i enjoy it , i always cleaned my smokeless guns when i got home too .. so its no big deal .. only with the B/P guns you use water instead of the expencive gun solivents . once ya take the grips off and put them aside just drownd the thing ..lol water won`t hurt it . and the wife`s hair dryer will make short order of drying it up ..

[timothy75]

10-15 is no problem, just load up and go. Its unlikely any cowboy reloaded his sixgun 3 times in a gunfight anyway.

[Ifishsum]

Follow-up: Made up 12 rounds - removed the wax from the 250gr bullets and used Bore Butter as a lube, light compression with a single card wad over the powder, Winchester LP primers. They were definitely stouter recoil than any smokeless loads I've put through it, but since it's Pyrodex I shouldn't have to worry about pressure, right? (I used 1.9cc of Pyrodex P) The recoil doesn't bother me I just want to be sure I'm safe......

Cleanup was not bad at all - I prelubed the barrel and the front of the cylinder with Bore Butter before firing and the fouling came right out. The Bore Butter seems a little too runny to use as a bullet lube in the cartridges so I'm going to experiment next time with a beeswax/crisco mix. This is something I want to play around more with!

[sundance44s]

I shoot the cheap moly bullets out of my 45 colt conversion cylinder too ..i just leave the moly lube on them and dab some crisco/bees wax mix in 2 of the cylinders over the top of the cartrages and it keeps them running smooth .

[Wayner]

When loading cartridges the norm is to use FFg black powder and,I suspect, RS Pyrodex. I guess the cartridges hold more pressure than a Kentucky single shot or muzzleloading pistol where you would use FFFg(pistol-small bore rifle) and at 45 cal. change over to FFg Black powder or RS Pyrodex if desired. The 45 is the transition from FFFg to FFg where you can use either. That's with muzzleloaders. Well, using Pyrodex P or FFFg black in cartridges does raise the pressures and a stout gun like a Ruger would be good to shoot that finer powder. For standard Italian or replica single actions the FFg black or RS Pyrodex is best to stay with. Don't get me wrong. The FFFg black powder and the Pyrodex P can be used but mostly for stout hunting loads. Using RS Pyrodex or FFg black still gives a cartridge a good "womp". A load of about 37gr. by volumn of FFg blackpowder gives almost 800fps. with the heavier 250gr. bullet. That is a "womper". hee hee I didn't know moly lube was good for the subs like APP or 777. Good info to have since I haven't loades many 777 or APP cartridges. Regular black lube does gum those up some. I tried it and had some lube that didn't gum up the 777 but I mixed so many things in that lube I'd never duplicate it. hee hee I've read that Puff-Lon ballistic filler works good in cartridges that the powder doesn't fill the case enough. The use of a filler with 777 is prohibited by the manufacturer. Hard fiber wads and the like are ok though I guess with 777. You don't need wads or fillers though if you use FFg black or RS Pyrodex. Just load the cases so there is no space between the powder and the bullet.

[Wayner]

When loading cartridges the norm is to use FFg black powder and,I suspect, RS Pyrodex. I guess the cartridges hold more pressure than a Kentucky single shot or muzzleloading pistol where you would use FFFg(pistol-small bore rifle) and at 45 cal. change over to FFg Black powder or RS Pyrodex if desired. The 45 is the transition from FFFg to FFg where you can use either. That's with muzzleloaders. Well, using Pyrodex P or FFFg black in cartridges does raise the pressures and a stout gun like a Ruger would be good to shoot that finer powder. For standard Italian or replica single actions the FFg black or RS Pyrodex is best to stay with. Don't get me wrong. The FFFg black powder and the Pyrodex P can be used but mostly for stout hunting loads. Using RS Pyrodex or FFg black still gives a cartridge a good "womp". A load of about 37gr. by volumn of FFg blackpowder gives almost 800fps. with the heavier 250gr. bullet. That is a "womper". hee hee I didn't know moly lube was good for the subs like APP or 777. Good info to have since I haven't loaded many 777 or APP cartridges. Regular black lube does gum those up some. I tried it and had some lube that didn't gum up the 777 but I mixed so many things in that lube I'd never duplicate it. hee hee I've read that Puff-Lon ballistic filler works good in cartridges that the powder doesn't fill the case enough. The use of a filler with 777 is prohibited by the manufacturer. Hard fiber wads and the like are ok though I guess with 777. You don't need wads or fillers though if you use FFg black or RS Pyrodex. Just load the cases so there is no space between the powder and the bullet.

[Ifishsum]

Thanks, I'll try the RS next. I don't think I'm at 37gr anyways with the Lee 1.9cc dipper but I'd rather be on the safe side.