Mossberg vs. Savage

[kh1911]

im lookin at two hunting rifle/ scope combos. Theres the Mossberg Trophy Hunter combo with walnut stock and a 20 inch blued barrel, 3-9x40 scope and a lightning bolt action adjustible trigger system for $350.00 new or a Savage Axis with a 22 in barrel, matte finished blue sporter barrel, Realtree hardwood HD camo/ composite stock and the same scope for $380.00 new. i was lookin in .308 or .30-06 for deer hunting and possibly bigger. i live in pa and these guns are from a dicks. Any tips/suggestions

[FiveInADime]

I would choose neither. Dick's sells Rem. 700 ADL models for that same price sometimes. Of the two I would take the Savage, but there are better guns for the same money available.

[jmr40]

Both are examples of the new trend to build disposable rifles. They both work, they both are reasonably accurate. Both are designed for the guy who shoots box or less of ammo a year to zero their rifle and do a little deer hunting. If that is how you plan to use them either will work. I like the Axis better.

But for about the same cost as a couple of boxes of ammo you can do much better. Move up to the Stevens 200, Remington ADL, Marlin XS-7, or one of the Savage package rifles based on the 10 or 110 action and you will have a much better long term rifle.

Consider buying used. For about the same price as the budget guns new, there are lots of lightly used top tier rifles looking for a new home.

[kilotanker22]

What part of pa you from? I also am from pa. If you are close to Mansfield pa Walmart has Remington adls for 417 with scope and all. I would buy an adl before the savage or the moss Berg. Also the Roger American and the marlin xl7 I think are a little better than the two you listed for a touch more cash.

[kh1911]

harleysville in montgomery county area bout an hour outside philadelphia

[GeauxTide]

Spend the xtra and get a Savage 16 Weather Warrior. Accutrigger and Accustock are incredible, and you won't have a disposable rifle.

[Huffmanite]

Buy the Mossberg.

[GlenF]

What Huffmanite said.

I have a Mossberg ATR 30-06 with the adjustable trigger. The rifle is light enough to make the Rem 700 folks I shoot with wish their rifles were as light. And those who have accepted my invitation to shoot the Mossberg have all been pleasantly surprised with the accuracy. The only problem for some is the recoil pad. It's thin. On a 30-06 I never expected soft recoil, but some do. The barrel is supposed to be free floating but I had to file on a bit of wood to get the right amount of clearance for true free float.

Mine came with a scope which I replaced with a Nikon Buckmaster with BDC. I reload my own ammo, and this rifle really likes 180gr Swift A Frame bullets with IMR4895. I wish this rifle would like 150 grain bullets since my wife bought a few thousand of those for her 308. An inexpensive rifle that likes expensive bullets seems about right for my luck.

Good luck on your quest.

[4runnerman]

Both are examples of the new trend to build disposable rifles. They both work, they both are reasonably accurate. Both are designed for the guy who shoots box or less of ammo a year to zero their rifle and do a little deer hunting

jmr40--You have me puzzled here. Less than a box a year and little deer hunting. I see you said the axis would be the way you would go. As for the rest im lost. I have a 243 axis xp. I shoot around 100 rounds a week or so out of it. With my hand loads it will hold a match to any thing out there. I did take the trigger out and clip 1.5 coils off the spring ( what a horrable trigger it was). I do not belive them to be disposable in any manner what so ever.The rifles will last a life time and are as accurate as anything on the market, Please explaine????..

[Cowboy_mo]

I too was wondering the same thing.

[FiveInADime]

I think he's just saying that other rifles like the ADL and Savage M10/Stevens 200 have WIDE upgrade paths and similar price tags. Not really any downside to getting a better platform, IMO.

[L_Killkenny]

Between those to choices it would be the Axis hands down.

Now as for other choices I highly recommend going the "neither" route. I'm a Savage fan from years gone by but found no reason for Savage to introduce the Axis. The Stevens 200 they make was/is a better platform for little to none increase in price.

[taylorce1]

I have to agree with going up a step. Just left Wal-Mart and they had a .243, .270, and .30-06 ADL models with Remington labled scopes in the display case for $419. I just don't see the downside to spending $40-70 more to get a Remington over the OP's two choices. I think most peopl could scrounge up the extra money to buy it without having to wait for the next paycheck.

[4runnerman]

Taylorce1- A remington 700 ADL is by far no step up from a Axis to say the least. What you are comparing here is Savages cheapest rifle compared to Remingtons cheapest rifle. Which in any case the Savage is a far cry better all around. Both are cheap and all that is left is accuracy. Hands down Savage in that dept. And it's Cheaper than the remmy too. Someome else posted that up grades are not possable on the Axis. True for sure,but i ask,,What up grade do you want?. If you want a better stock a better action ect ect. Maybe you should not have got the Axis in the first place. I have had 2 Axis now,still have one in a 243. It shoots un real groups at 300 yards,Why would i mess with that or try up grade it?. If you are going to be happy with what you buy, You will be much much more happy with the Savage over the Remington

[ripnbst]

Originally Posted by 4runnerman

Taylorce1- A remington 700 ADL is by far no step up from a Axis to say the least. What you are comparing here is Savages cheapest rifle compared to Remingtons cheapest rifle. Which in any case the Savage is a far cry better all around. Both are cheap and all that is left is accuracy. Hands down Savage in that dept. And it's Cheaper than the remmy too. Someome else posted that up grades are not possable on the Axis. True for sure,but i ask,,What up grade do you want?. If you want a better stock a better action ect ect. Maybe you should not have got the Axis in the first place. I have had 2 Axis now,still have one in a 243. It shoots un real groups at 300 yards,Why would i mess with that or try up grade it?. If you are going to be happy with what you buy, You will be much much more happy with the Savage over the Remington

Pass me that Savage Kool-aid.

Remington 700 is not their cheap "budget" rifle. It is their flagship, American Icon, rifle used for decades by USMC snipers rifle.

[4runnerman]

Remington 700 is not their cheap "budget" rifle. It is their flagship, American Icon, rifle used for decades by USMC snipers rifle

Not that model. 700 ADL is the cheapest rifle Remmy makes buddy. Pick them up on sale for 329.00 most of the time. This is NOT the sniper version nor has it ever been

So in your words--Pass me the Remmy Kool-Aid

[rebs]

Not that model. 700 ADL is the cheapest rifle Remmy makes buddy. Pick them up on sale for 329.00 most of the time. This is NOT the sniper version nor has it ever been

Which one is the sniper rifle ?

[4runnerman]

Rebs- it was a 700 ADL,but it was custom built for the Forces. It is not nor has it ever been the same 700 ADL you go buy in the store. The barrels and the action were beefed up for the sniper version. It was built off the 700 ADL version,but that was where the simularities ended. I belive it replaced the Winchesters they were using. Being the Action and the Barrel are the 2 most important thing in accuracy,to assume that they are the same rifles is crazy.
Im Just saying that the 700 ADL that you buy at Walmart is not the sniper version , never has been. Now if you want to do the mods and all you could make it into a shooter for sure,but if that is the case just buy a better version of the Remmy.
What we are comapring here is the basement model rifles not the cream of the crop. If we wanted to jump to the same price range we could bring in Howa 1500 and Savage Mod 11 Trophy hunter. Heck for 100.00 more you coold get into a Tika. Any one of those would put the Walmart 700 ADL to shame in a heartbeat. Lets keep it to apples for apples here. Pound for pound you will not find a better shooter than a Savage. Looks wise----well any thing will beat them

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by 4runnerman

Taylorce1- A remington 700 ADL is by far no step up from a Axis to say the least. What you are comparing here is Savages cheapest rifle compared to Remingtons cheapest rifle. Which in any case the Savage is a far cry better all around. Both are cheap and all that is left is accuracy. Hands down Savage in that dept. And it's Cheaper than the remmy too. Someome else posted that up grades are not possable on the Axis. True for sure,but i ask,,What up grade do you want?. If you want a better stock a better action ect ect. Maybe you should not have got the Axis in the first place. I have had 2 Axis now,still have one in a 243. It shoots un real groups at 300 yards,Why would i mess with that or try up grade it?. If you are going to be happy with what you buy, You will be much much more happy with the Savage over the Remington

Why upgrade a rifle? Why do some people build hot rods, kit planes, and gaming computers? Because it is in our nauture as humans to want something more out of things.

Right now however in this economy the trend is to buy as cheaply as possible and this isn't a bad thing. However with the price difference roughly two boxes of quality ammunition I'd rather buy something with potential to become more with less money, than something that I would have to pay a fortune in either time or money to make better. Or if I wanted to sell I couldn't make back at least 75% of my original purchase price of. With a M700 ADL package from Wal-Mart for $419 a guy could buy one use it for a year or two, crank off the barrel, remove the stock and scope and sell off thoes parts on ebay for $60-100 combined. Then he is left with an action that is worth $350-400 for a guy wanting to build a custom rifle, look you just made money for your next rifle purchase or you have an excellent action to build a rifle on. Try that with a Savage Axis.

I've owned several ADL Remingtons and Stevens 200's and one thing I can tell you for sure is that neither outshoot the other by extreme amounts. I've had more luck getting a Remington to shoot better faster than the Stevens, because the Stevens takes more work on the trigger. Without a good bedding job none of them returned to the same POI once I removed the barreled action from the stock for cleaning.

Originally Posted by 4runnerman

Rebs- it was a 700 ADL,but it was custom built for the Forces. It is not nor has it ever been the same 700 ADL you go buy in the store. The barrels and the action were beefed up for the sniper version............. What we are comapring here is the basement model rifles not the cream of the crop. If we wanted to jump to the same price range we could bring in Howa 1500 and Savage Mod 11 Trophy hunter. Heck for 100.00 more you coold get into a Tika. Any one of those would put the Walmart 700 ADL to shame in a heartbeat. Lets keep it to apples for apples here. Pound for pound you will not find a better shooter than a Savage.

The M700 our military guys shoot is just a standard 700 action they aren't any beefier in any way except for possibly the extractor used is upgraded I haven't held one in nearly 20 years and I don't remember much about it. They use a heavier contoured barrel than a M700 action. I don't know how Remington puts them together but I would like to hope Remington gives them a little more attention when putting them together than the run of the mill M700's for retail.


Yes and the Savage Trophy Hunter package would be better than the M700 Package because at least your getting a Nikon Prostaff scope for the extra $100 over the Axis and the Accutrigger. I don't see too may Weatherby Vanguard or Howa packages with scopes except the youth ones and bare rifles in these models start off at $400. If we go up to Tikka when was the last time you saw one for less than $550 in a store? Since Tikka's don't come with scopes as well what scope are you going to reccomend that doesn't take him over the $600 mark? The scopes on the two models he is looking at are crap and so is the M700's but that doesn't mean they can't work for him for a season or two until he recoups some mone

[4runnerman]

Why upgrade a rifle? Why do some people build hot rods, kit planes, and gaming computers? Because it is in our nauture as humans to want something more out of things

Very true taylor, But if the rifle costs 300.00 and you put 200.00 more into it???.. That just don't add up to much in the brain dept.

As for it being the same one our boys shot.Not. I can dig up the article from just this morning when i researched it before i posted that reply and send it to you,if you want. It was not the same rifle in question. It was based off that rifle ,but mods were done to it.

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by 4runnerman

Very true taylor, But if the rifle costs 300.00 and you put 200.00 more into it???.. That just don't add up to much in the brain dept.

As for it being the same one our boys shot.Not. I can dig up the article from just this morning when i researched it before i posted that reply and send it to you,if you want. It was not the same rifle in question. It was based off that rifle ,but mods were done to it.

I take it from your user name your into Toyota's correct? If your into off roading you do modifications to your vehicle to make it perform better don't you? Why would you want to give up that ability in a rifle just to save a few dollars? That isn't what is adding up to me at all with your passion over the Axis. The OP may not be able to get a Remington ADL package for $40 more in his neck of the woods but, he may have not known to look.

Another thing you are telling the OP is that if he buys an Axis rifle he will be accurate with it. That just isn't true, how many of the people you out shoot at the range with the Axis really have the skills you do? Besides I'm sure you hand load to tailor your ammunition to your rifle, how many of those guys you see at the range are using the best quality ammunition for their high dollar rifles? I found most of them bought a high priced rifle thinking that was all they needed to achieve a high level of accuracy, they don't do the work necessary to shoot at a high level of accuracy they just expect it.

Truth be told I don't know of a bolt action rifle being made today that won't beat the accuracy of a stock commercial production rifle of 10-15 years ago. Every rifle company can put out a "Lemon" once in awhile but for the most part the majority of people who buy any new rifle are satisfied with its performance straight out of the box. For those who aren't there are options with a bottom end Remington M700 that aren't there with a Savage Axis.

For those few who develop the skills to shoot to their rifles potential. Then $200 to upgrade your $300 rifles ability is a lot cheaper than buying an $1000 rifle especially if you are sticking with the same cartridge. Seems to me it adds up as well as sticking a lift kit and bigger tires under your Toyota to make it go more places off road than ever before.

I wish someone would have told me to spend the extra money and buy a Jeep CJ or Wrangler instead of buying my cheap old Commando, trying to upgrade that was real expensive as everything had to be modified to work or custom fabricated. I paid $500 for it probably spent well over $2K upgrading the suspension, ignition, fuel system, exhaust, wheels and tires and in the end sold it for $800, some lessons are learned the hard way.

As far as the M40 and M24 sniper rifles that our US Military uses. The action at the heart is the same M700 bolt action that you or I can buy off the shelf at Wal-Mart. The Marine Corps builds their rifles at an armory in Quantico, while Remington was contracted by the Army to build the M24. Marines use a short Action M700 and the Army a long action. What I said was the action used by the Military is the same M700 action we can buy, I never said there wasn't upgrades done to the rifles. I said as well, that I hoped the M24's that Remington put together get a little more attention to detail than the standard assembly line rifle, because our men in uniform who use them deserve that at the very least.

[langloisandy]

I just snagged an Axis for my kid...308, great rifle.....MOA groups at 100 yards with Federal. Nice gun.

Andy

[4runnerman]

Another thing you are telling the OP is that if he buys an Axis rifle he will be accurate with it

Taylor- I said no such thing. I stated that the Axis is a very accurate rifle. The rest is up to him. Off roading in a 4 wheeler is vastly different than doing mods on a rifle that shoots sub MOA right off the bat. Taylor-I have no doubt that your expirence vastly out weights mine for sure. I guess i look at the practical side of things. I have a 6MMBR that i did put a 1200.00 scope on,but that was it. If i was getting a rifle to hunt with only- I would not be doing such foolisheness with it. Hunting and Comp shooting are not the same.

For a hunting rifle the Axis just the way it is out of the box will be more than good enough for him. Shooting a deer or such at 300 yards and shooting a 3 inch target at 600 yards are not the same. Millions of people shoot deer every year with rifles that me and you would not consider good enough for what we do. But every year those rifles drop deer dead. In your terms on trucks. That would be like putting a lift kit and mudders on a truck to drive on the street. It is a waste of time and money.

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by 4runnerman

Taylor- I said no such thing. I stated that the Axis is a very accurate rifle. The rest is up to him. Off roading in a 4 wheeler is vastly different than doing mods on a rifle that shoots sub MOA right off the bat. Taylor-I have no doubt that your experience vastly out weights mine for sure. I guess i look at the practical side of things.

You are right you didn't say that, I guess I got carried away there. However, every rifle mentioned will probably shoot MOA right out of the box. My analogy of off roading and the rifle really isn't that far off. My guess is that most people who drive lifted vehicles spend 90% on pavement with it, so you just modified a perfectly drivable vehicle. The other people that aren't professionals that purpose built a vehicle for off road use the vehicle spends 90% of its time in a driveway or on a trailer.

My point is regardless how well the Axis shoots out of the box, paying $380 for a packaged Axis rifle is way too much. Especially when I can pick up a Savage 110 packaged rifle for $397 with a wood stock or Remington M700 ADL package $419 both at different Wal-Marts locally. You're right he may never need or want the ability to upgrade the rifle, but at least he has an option for only a few dollars more. If he goes with the Mossberg which has a better factory trigger and hates the cheap synthetic stock (more rigid than the Axis) at least he can pick up a Boyd's laminate for around $100, you can't even say that about the Axis.

For the foreseeable future there isn't going to be a lot you can do with an Axis except change the triggers and barrels out. If a person has pretty decent wood working skills you could always carve out a new stock for the Axis and run it single shot. A couple guys are doing that, as well as removing the recoil lug slot from the receiver and using a standard recoil lug.

As far as experience goes, I wouldn't say mine is vastly greater than yours. In fact I'd say as far as shooting goes that I very rarely shoot as well as you. However I hunt a lot or at least did, and I do like to try different things. I spend my money making what I want to shoot, that is why I have no respect for the Axis but a lot of respect for the Savage 10/110. You see the Pros as it being a cheap accurate rifle, I see the Cons as it being a cheap rifle with a dim future.

[kh1911]

ended up goin with the marlin XS7 .308 new with sling and burris 3-9x40 scope for $350. The acutrigger shoots like a dream and the bolts smooth as butter