Glock 10mm or S&W .44 mag?

jakeatsamford · December 2, 2004, 12:28 AM

Input on what the difference is b/w 10mm and 44 mag. I am new to it all.

jakeatsamford · December 2, 2004, 12:30 AM

I need opinions on diff. b/w 10mm and .44 concerning hog and deer hunting. I am back and forth b/w semi-auto and revolver. I need someone to convince me a certain way. money not an option.

Tamara · December 2, 2004, 12:42 AM

If it's to be a dedicated hunting gun, I'd go with the S&W. For a dual-purpose (hunting and personal protection) rig, I'd go with the 10mm...

Jelly · December 2, 2004, 12:54 AM

"money not an option"

If used for hunting, S&W 629 Light Hunter filled with Winchester's 250 gr. Supreme Partition Gold.

texmex · December 2, 2004, 01:41 AM

The main difference in the 10MM and 44Mag is that the 10 was designed to be an auto pistol cartridge and the 44 was desinged to be a revolver cartridge. The 10mm is about 20 years old and the 44 magnum is about 50 years old. There are revolvers for the 10mm (S&W Model 610) and there are autos for the 44 Mag (Desert Eagle, LAR Grizzly). If you are comparing the Glock Model 20 and the Smith & Wesson Model 29, The Glock holds 16 rounds and the Smith & Wesson holds 6. The 44 Mag is more powerful than the 10MM but can also use lower powered rounds (44 Special and 44 Russian). In an automatic, the ammunition must be powerful enough to operate the weapon so it can't be loaded down too much or it won't function. In factory rounds, the 44s go from around 300 foot pounds of energy up to about 1100 foot pounds. The 10MM goes from about 500 foot pounds up to around 700 foot pounds.

The Glock 10MM is lighter than the S&W and holds more than twice as many rounds, and is faster to reload. I guess the main advantage is firepower. The auto pistol is flatter than a revolver and most people find it easier to conceal. The 10MM is more powerful than most auto pistol cartridges and has a good reputation for stopping power.

The S&W 44 Magnum's main advantages are more power and more variation in available ammunition. With the heavier loads, recoil and muzzle blast can be intimidating for some shooters, but with lighter loads it has less muzzle blast and recoil than the 10 MM. The operation of a revolver is considered simpler than an austo pistol and generally considered to be easier for a novice to operate safely. Both weapons are accurate and reliable.

If the weapon is to be used for hunting or protection from bears, the 44 Magnum would be considered superior by most people. With a 4 inch or shorter barrel, the 44 could be used for concealed carry but most people would not find it ideal for that.

If the weapon is to be used for police duty or concealed carry, most people would rate the 10 MM Glock superior. With the right loads, it can be used for hunting light skinned animals such as deer or hogs. I have know at least one person who carried a 10 MM Glock in bear country loaded with Full Metal Jacket ammunition. He figured he would get enough penetration with the FMJ and he had more chances to hit something vital. He also figured he had 15 chances to stop the bear before he had to use the last one on himself.

The most important comparison is which one works best for the person using it. Some people can't get a good grip on the Glock and the grip shape can't easily be changed. There are lots of different grips for the S&W and one can be found to fit just about any hand. They are both excellent weapons and it just comes down to what you are going to use it for, how it fits your hand and points for you, and which one shoots better for you. The best solution is one of each.

I carry a S&W Mountain Gun Model 629 44 Magnum on duty and off duty. I use moderate loads (Winchester Silvertip 210 grain). The gun fits my hand and comes to hand quickly. I started out shooting revolvers and they just work better for me. I don't find the gun hard to conceal, but not as easy as an auto pistol. I usually cover it with a jacket when the weather is cool or a vest or loose fitting shirt when it is hot. Since I am a police officer, I don't worry about someone being able to tell I have something under my clothes, I just try to keep it from being blatant. If I want to go out and just wear a t-shirt, I drop a S&W Model 60 357 magnum in my pocket.

Glock makes two sizes of 10 MM. One is full size and one is subcompact. The big advantage here is that they both operate the same and the subcompact can use the full size magazines. A lot of officers carry the short magazine in the "baby" Glock and carry the full size magazines for reloads. You can get a "belt slide" style holster and use it for both guns. If you are going to carry a full size side arm and a backup gun, The combo of Glock 20 and Glock 29 is an awesome set up. If something happens to the big Glock, the little one can use the same magazines.

The good thing about choosing between 10MM and 44 Magnum is that both are great!

CAGoatee · December 2, 2004, 05:01 AM

Texmex really gave a good technical break-down on the pros & cons of those two calibers. However, to respond to your question correctly, what people also need to know from you is, what you want your handgun to do for you, (or what you want to do with it)?

Which caliber(s), bullets, and/or handguns are right for you, all depend on what your wants and needs are. Then again, you may not want to tell us, and just want to know what the differences are.

In any case, Happy Holidays, and good shooting!

juliet charley · December 2, 2004, 06:54 AM

Quote:

I need opinions on diff. b/w 10mm and .44 concerning hog and deer hunting.

For strictly hunting, there is no doubt the .44 Magnum has the advantage over the 10mm. It shoots heavier bullets. It shoots bullets at higher velocity. It has a much wider selection of hunting bullets. Though it's largely an indivdual shooter/individual weapon thing, I'd give it the edge in overall accuracy--particularly as the ranges get longer.

As to the wheelgun/bottomfeeder thing, that's kind of a personal choice though an autoloader offers no advantage in the hunting field. If you need to throw 16 rounds at a deer and do a reload, you need be doing something besides hunting.

Hal · December 2, 2004, 07:31 AM

I don't hunt so I don't know for sure.
Don't deer run away from you when you shoot them and pigs run at you?

I wouldn't want anything less than a .44 if this one was coming at me.

SmokinTom · December 2, 2004, 08:37 AM

The 10mm goes bang,the 44mag. goes BOOM. How can you compare these two rounds?

RWK · December 2, 2004, 10:10 AM

TexMex: Excellent post; thank you.

One MINOR addition to TexMex's outstanding input: the S&W 610 (N Frame 10mm revolver) also fires the plentiful, inexpensive, and potent .40 S&W (much as .357 magnum revolvers accommodate all .38 Specials). Further, I have found the use of RIMZ moonclips to be excellent: no tools, VERY fast reloads, no distortion and very little wear, they make the 10mm/.40 S&W extremely easy to use in the Smith 610.

jakeatsamford · December 2, 2004, 01:11 PM

So is the 10mm equal in diameter as the .40 cal??

Bob Freddy · December 2, 2004, 01:50 PM

Quote:

So is the 10mm equal in diameter as the .40 cal?

I am pretty sure that when they designed the .40sw they started with 10mm and shortened it a bit to reduce recoil for female FBI agents. That is what I heard atleast

BOB

Mystro · December 2, 2004, 02:53 PM

the 44mag is better for hunting. A hot 10MM =s a 41 magnum. I think if one is looking for the ultimate auto mountain- gun, then the 10mm is perfect. It also has waaay less recoil than a 44mag with a heck of alot more bullets.
IMO..I like the 45acp better now that the ammo has improved.
For the record I now cary a HK USP45 compact with +p cor-bon 45acp. Through my chronograph it is equal to my hot 10mm. A 45acp going that fast shooting into wet newspaper is AWESOME!!. If I could hunt with this round in Pa. I would.

RWK · December 2, 2004, 04:47 PM

Quote:

"So is the 10mm equal in diameter as the .40 cal??'

The 10mm’s and the .40 S&W’s projectile/bullet are the same diameter and, therefore, Smith 610 revolvers accommodates both cartridges (although the cartridges, per se, are NOT identical). This is precisely the same principal as .357 revolvers accommodating all .38 Special loads.

juliet charley · December 2, 2004, 06:59 PM

Quote:

A hot 10MM =s a 41 magnum.

Not hardly!

A hot 10mm equal a hot .357 Magnum (in fact, for all practical purposes, they are identical).

A hot .41 Magnum generates about 50% MORE energy than a hot 10mm.

wudjalike2no · December 2, 2004, 07:27 PM

10 mm x .245 = 0.3937007874015748031496062992126
so .39 inches

hatchet · December 2, 2004, 07:28 PM

When the 10mm first came out it in the Bren 10, it was equal to a standard
41mag. It has since been downloaded and also, now there are more hotter
41mag loads available.

Jelly · December 2, 2004, 07:55 PM

Full-power loads in a 10mm place is somewhere between the .357 and .41 Magnum's.

Using the Hornady 180 GR Hollow Point/XTP will give you power that exceeds that of a 180-grain .357 Magnum.

Also, using the Hornady 200 GR Hollow Point/XTP will put you darn close to the .41 Magnum in performance.

As I previously stated though, if hunting, I'd take a .44 Magnum loaded with Winchester's 250-grain Supreme Partition Gold, or to make a comparison to the 10MM using the same companies ammunition, Hornady's 240 GR Hollow Point/XTP.

juliet charley · December 2, 2004, 08:58 PM

The hottest factory (Buffalo Bore) .357 Magnum loads (out of a four-inch L-frame) are very, very slightly hotter (not enough to make a difference) that the hottest factory (Double Tap) 10mm loads (out of a Glock 20).

The hottest 10mm loads equal the hottest .357 Magnum loads.

The hottest factory (Buffalo Bore) .41 Magnum loads deliver approximately 150% of the ME of the hottest factory (Double Tap) loads.

The hottest 10mm loads are not even in the same league as the hottest .41 Magnum loads (despite various internet/gunrag myths).

Since, you mentioned the 180-grain .357 Magnum and 10mm loads here are the numbers:

Buffalo Bore (.357 Magnum) - 1375 fps/ 756 fpe
Double Tap (10mm) - 1300 fps/676 fpe

And for the .41 Magnum and 10mm:

Buffalo Bore (.41 Magnum) - 230-grain 1450 fps/1074 fps
Double Tap (10mm) - 200-grain 1250 fps/694 fps

As you can see, in the 180-grain loads, the .357 Magnum is 75 fps faster and generates 80 fpe more energy--for all practical purposes, equivalent loads. When you come to the .41 Magnum, it is pushes a 30-grain heavier bullet 200 fps faster than the 10mm and generating 380 fpe more energy.

The .357 Magnum and 10mm are clearly a "ballistic twins."

The .41 Magnum is clearly in another league.

Jelly · December 2, 2004, 09:11 PM

Juliet,

Not an excuse, but I'm just familiar with the "big-name" companies at this point and what they offer.

The companies you mentioned produce ammo that show my previous statements to be incorrect...

**JohnKSa** · December 2, 2004, 09:26 PM

Ok, jc, you've made your point. If one is willing to buy $50 a box ammo from an ammo custom shop one can find .357Mag ammo that is equivalent to 10mm and .41 mag that exceeds 10mm power.

This has a lot more to do with the fact that you can hot rod a revolver more easily (and probably more safely) than an autopistol than it has to do with what are "commonly accepted" power levels on the three rounds in question.

Your POINT is correct. Your POSITION is proven. Unfortunately your point and position aren't particularly relevant to the person who wishes to shoot more than 10 boxes of ammo through his firearm before he's spent as much on ammo as he did on the gun...

At the practical level

A person buying ammo from more common sources and at more reasonable prices will find that "original strength" 10mm ammo is quite a bit more powerful than.357 mag ammo.

A person buying ammo from more common sources and at more reasonable prices will find that "original strength" 10mm ammo is roughly comparable to .41 mag.

.357Mag and .41Mag are NOT in danger of being replaced by 10mm. You don't need to open EVERY 10mm related thread and quote the stats that you found on the Buffalo Bore page in an effort to keep the 10mm from taking over. The 10mm will not supplant the magnum revolver rounds and autopistols will never completely eliminate revolvers. All will be well...

Jelly · December 2, 2004, 10:00 PM

I do agree with John though...

juliet charley · December 2, 2004, 10:07 PM

"Open every thread?" Let's see. My post was number 15--that's not hardly opening the thread, is it?

I'm not particularly worried about the 10mm taking over. I have a couple 10mm handguns and really like the calibre a lot. What I do care about is incorrect information being posted. If you will go back and read, you will see my post was in response to and to correct incorrect information in an earlier post.

The 10mm is the bottom feeder equivalent of the .357 Magnum. If you want a bottom feeder for hunting, the 10mm is the way to go. If you want a wheelgun, you can go with the .357 Magnum or a number of even more powerful rounds including the .41 Magnum, .44 Magnum, .480 Ruger, .500 S&W, etc.

BTW, if you really want "original strength" 10mm, you have to order it from a speciality company (Double Tap, Texas Ammo, etc.) just like you have to order "original strength" .357 Magnum from a speciality company (Double Tap, Buffalo Bore, etc.). You're not going to buy "original strenth" ammo in either calibre at Wal-Mart. --And do remember, that we are talking "original strength" in both calibres.

**JohnKSa** · December 2, 2004, 11:10 PM

Yes, "open every thread." It's a very rare thread on TFL or THR that has 10mm in the title and escapes the "informative" efforts of a "certain un-named poster." The advanced search option lets one search on a string (for example '10mm') and a poster (pick your favorite here--maybe 'jc2' would be an interesting choice on THR). I think the results will bear out my assertation within the limits of "reasonable exaggeration".

Quote:

What I do care about is incorrect information being posted.

Quote:

BTW, if you really want "original strength" 10mm, you have to order it from a speciality company

You KNOW that's false, jc. http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...highlight=10mm Last week you said that you have always liked the 10mm Winchester STHP. When did Winchester become a specialty company?

"Original strength" .357 magnum has been and is available pretty much everywhere. The data that everyone uses to support the claims that the initial .357 loadings were much hotter than what's available now were from a 10 or 15" test barrel.

juliet charley · December 3, 2004, 12:01 AM

Though you seem terribly obsessed about what and where I post, John, we both tend to participate in 10mm threads so the search would yield the about the same results whether we typed in your username or mine.

While the Winchester Silvertip is a good load--and relatively hot load--it does not really qualify as an "original strength" load. I said I liked it, John, and I do. I did not say it is as "hot" as original load (or the loads offered by Double Tap, Texas Ammunition, etc.). If you want "original strength" 10mm loads, you have to rely on speciality ammo companies. FWIW, John, I like the Winchester Silvertip in .357 Magnum, as well--it is my normal carry load in that calibre. It is a good general purpose load in both calibres.

Today's "major manufacture" .357 Magnum loads are not in the same class as the original 1935 loads designed for use in the N-frame--not, BTW, for the J and K-frames. Are the premium loads "hotter?" They may be--but not by much. It is a lot harder to pin down the "original strength" load for the 70 year old .357 Magnum than the relative newcomer 10mm. The best published figure I can find is a 158-grain bullet 1515 fps from a 8 3/8 inch barrel (not hardly a "10 or 15" test barrel"

. That IS a lot "hotter" than current 158-grain loadings from R-P, W-W and Federal--and much closer to the current Buffalo Bore and Double Tap offerings. Of course, you have to consider that the powder used in the original loading 70 years ago is no longer available, and today's powders are generally a significant improvement, so, it is very reasonable to say Buffalo Bore's and Double Tap's offering are lot truer to the "original strength" loading than those offered by the major manufacturers.

Now, John, why don't you stop talking about me and my posting patterns, and let this thread get back on topic.

If you do have objection to what I post and in which threads I post, I would suggest the proper approach would be a PM to the moderators or administrator stating your concerns--it really their business not your's.

If you just like to run a search for the thrill of checking my posts and posting patterns for some perverse, private pleasure of your own, then it would probably be best if you kept that secret pleasure all to yourself.

December 2, 2004, 12:28 AM	#1
jakeatsamford Junior Member Join Date: November 29, 2004 Posts: 8	Glock 10mm or S&W.44 mag Input on what the difference is b/w 10mm and 44 mag. I am new to it all.

December 2, 2004, 12:30 AM	#2
jakeatsamford Junior Member Join Date: November 29, 2004 Posts: 8	Glock 10mm or S&W .44 mag? I need opinions on diff. b/w 10mm and .44 concerning hog and deer hunting. I am back and forth b/w semi-auto and revolver. I need someone to convince me a certain way. money not an option.

December 2, 2004, 12:42 AM	#3
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,002	If it's to be a dedicated hunting gun, I'd go with the S&W. For a dual-purpose (hunting and personal protection) rig, I'd go with the 10mm... __________________ MOLON LABE! 2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium. The Arms Room: An Online Museum.

December 2, 2004, 01:41 AM	#5
texmex Member Join Date: November 21, 2004 Posts: 85	main differences The main difference in the 10MM and 44Mag is that the 10 was designed to be an auto pistol cartridge and the 44 was desinged to be a revolver cartridge. The 10mm is about 20 years old and the 44 magnum is about 50 years old. There are revolvers for the 10mm (S&W Model 610) and there are autos for the 44 Mag (Desert Eagle, LAR Grizzly). If you are comparing the Glock Model 20 and the Smith & Wesson Model 29, The Glock holds 16 rounds and the Smith & Wesson holds 6. The 44 Mag is more powerful than the 10MM but can also use lower powered rounds (44 Special and 44 Russian). In an automatic, the ammunition must be powerful enough to operate the weapon so it can't be loaded down too much or it won't function. In factory rounds, the 44s go from around 300 foot pounds of energy up to about 1100 foot pounds. The 10MM goes from about 500 foot pounds up to around 700 foot pounds. The Glock 10MM is lighter than the S&W and holds more than twice as many rounds, and is faster to reload. I guess the main advantage is firepower. The auto pistol is flatter than a revolver and most people find it easier to conceal. The 10MM is more powerful than most auto pistol cartridges and has a good reputation for stopping power. The S&W 44 Magnum's main advantages are more power and more variation in available ammunition. With the heavier loads, recoil and muzzle blast can be intimidating for some shooters, but with lighter loads it has less muzzle blast and recoil than the 10 MM. The operation of a revolver is considered simpler than an austo pistol and generally considered to be easier for a novice to operate safely. Both weapons are accurate and reliable. If the weapon is to be used for hunting or protection from bears, the 44 Magnum would be considered superior by most people. With a 4 inch or shorter barrel, the 44 could be used for concealed carry but most people would not find it ideal for that. If the weapon is to be used for police duty or concealed carry, most people would rate the 10 MM Glock superior. With the right loads, it can be used for hunting light skinned animals such as deer or hogs. I have know at least one person who carried a 10 MM Glock in bear country loaded with Full Metal Jacket ammunition. He figured he would get enough penetration with the FMJ and he had more chances to hit something vital. He also figured he had 15 chances to stop the bear before he had to use the last one on himself. The most important comparison is which one works best for the person using it. Some people can't get a good grip on the Glock and the grip shape can't easily be changed. There are lots of different grips for the S&W and one can be found to fit just about any hand. They are both excellent weapons and it just comes down to what you are going to use it for, how it fits your hand and points for you, and which one shoots better for you. The best solution is one of each. I carry a S&W Mountain Gun Model 629 44 Magnum on duty and off duty. I use moderate loads (Winchester Silvertip 210 grain). The gun fits my hand and comes to hand quickly. I started out shooting revolvers and they just work better for me. I don't find the gun hard to conceal, but not as easy as an auto pistol. I usually cover it with a jacket when the weather is cool or a vest or loose fitting shirt when it is hot. Since I am a police officer, I don't worry about someone being able to tell I have something under my clothes, I just try to keep it from being blatant. If I want to go out and just wear a t-shirt, I drop a S&W Model 60 357 magnum in my pocket. Glock makes two sizes of 10 MM. One is full size and one is subcompact. The big advantage here is that they both operate the same and the subcompact can use the full size magazines. A lot of officers carry the short magazine in the "baby" Glock and carry the full size magazines for reloads. You can get a "belt slide" style holster and use it for both guns. If you are going to carry a full size side arm and a backup gun, The combo of Glock 20 and Glock 29 is an awesome set up. If something happens to the big Glock, the little one can use the same magazines. The good thing about choosing between 10MM and 44 Magnum is that both are great!

December 2, 2004, 05:01 AM	#6
CAGoatee Member Join Date: November 30, 2004 Location: "Kah-leefornia" Posts: 64	10 mm vs. .44 magnum Texmex really gave a good technical break-down on the pros & cons of those two calibers. However, to respond to your question correctly, what people also need to know from you is, what you want your handgun to do for you, (or what you want to do with it)? Which caliber(s), bullets, and/or handguns are right for you, all depend on what your wants and needs are. Then again, you may not want to tell us, and just want to know what the differences are. In any case, Happy Holidays, and good shooting! __________________ "To win 100 victories in 100 battles is not the highest skill, but to defeat the enemy without fighting, that is the highest skill". (Asian Martial Arts Proverb) "Those who ignore history, are doomed to repeat it." (Anon.)

December 2, 2004, 12:54 AM	#4
Jelly Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2004 Location: Kentucky Posts: 238	"money not an option" If used for hunting, S&W 629 Light Hunter filled with Winchester's 250 gr. Supreme Partition Gold.

December 2, 2004, 07:31 AM	#8
Hal Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Ohio USA Posts: 8,563	I don't hunt so I don't know for sure. Don't deer run away from you when you shoot them and pigs run at you? I wouldn't want anything less than a .44 if this one was coming at me.

December 2, 2004, 08:37 AM	#9
SmokinTom Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 479	The 10mm goes bang,the 44mag. goes BOOM. How can you compare these two rounds?

December 2, 2004, 10:10 AM	#10
RWK Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 1999 Location: Occupied Virginia Posts: 2,777	TexMex: Excellent post; thank you. One MINOR addition to TexMex's outstanding input: the S&W 610 (N Frame 10mm revolver) also fires the plentiful, inexpensive, and potent .40 S&W (much as .357 magnum revolvers accommodate all .38 Specials). Further, I have found the use of RIMZ moonclips to be excellent: no tools, VERY fast reloads, no distortion and very little wear, they make the 10mm/.40 S&W extremely easy to use in the Smith 610. __________________ __________________ Μολών λαβέ!

December 2, 2004, 01:11 PM	#11
jakeatsamford Junior Member Join Date: November 29, 2004 Posts: 8	10mm and .40 cal So is the 10mm equal in diameter as the .40 cal??

December 2, 2004, 02:53 PM	#13
Mystro Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2004 Location: Central Pa. Posts: 1,528	I have em both. The Glock 10mm has ALOT of fire power in one clip but the 44mag is better for hunting. A hot 10MM =s a 41 magnum. I think if one is looking for the ultimate auto mountain- gun, then the 10mm is perfect. It also has waaay less recoil than a 44mag with a heck of alot more bullets. IMO..I like the 45acp better now that the ammo has improved. For the record I now cary a HK USP45 compact with +p cor-bon 45acp. Through my chronograph it is equal to my hot 10mm. A 45acp going that fast shooting into wet newspaper is AWESOME!!. If I could hunt with this round in Pa. I would.

December 2, 2004, 07:27 PM	#16
wudjalike2no Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2004 Posts: 109	10 mm x .245 = 0.3937007874015748031496062992126 so .39 inches

December 2, 2004, 07:28 PM	#17
hatchet Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2004 Location: Montana Posts: 226	When the 10mm first came out it in the Bren 10, it was equal to a standard 41mag. It has since been downloaded and also, now there are more hotter 41mag loads available.

December 2, 2004, 07:55 PM	#18
Jelly Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2004 Location: Kentucky Posts: 238	Full-power loads in a 10mm place is somewhere between the .357 and .41 Magnum's. Using the Hornady 180 GR Hollow Point/XTP will give you power that exceeds that of a 180-grain .357 Magnum. Also, using the Hornady 200 GR Hollow Point/XTP will put you darn close to the .41 Magnum in performance. As I previously stated though, if hunting, I'd take a .44 Magnum loaded with Winchester's 250-grain Supreme Partition Gold, or to make a comparison to the 10MM using the same companies ammunition, Hornady's 240 GR Hollow Point/XTP.

December 2, 2004, 08:58 PM	#19
juliet charley Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 1999 Posts: 2,501	The hottest factory (Buffalo Bore) .357 Magnum loads (out of a four-inch L-frame) are very, very slightly hotter (not enough to make a difference) that the hottest factory (Double Tap) 10mm loads (out of a Glock 20). The hottest 10mm loads equal the hottest .357 Magnum loads. The hottest factory (Buffalo Bore) .41 Magnum loads deliver approximately 150% of the ME of the hottest factory (Double Tap) loads. The hottest 10mm loads are not even in the same league as the hottest .41 Magnum loads (despite various internet/gunrag myths). Since, you mentioned the 180-grain .357 Magnum and 10mm loads here are the numbers: Buffalo Bore (.357 Magnum) - 1375 fps/ 756 fpe Double Tap (10mm) - 1300 fps/676 fpe And for the .41 Magnum and 10mm: Buffalo Bore (.41 Magnum) - 230-grain 1450 fps/1074 fps Double Tap (10mm) - 200-grain 1250 fps/694 fps As you can see, in the 180-grain loads, the .357 Magnum is 75 fps faster and generates 80 fpe more energy--for all practical purposes, equivalent loads. When you come to the .41 Magnum, it is pushes a 30-grain heavier bullet 200 fps faster than the 10mm and generating 380 fpe more energy. The .357 Magnum and 10mm are clearly a "ballistic twins." The .41 Magnum is clearly in another league.

December 2, 2004, 09:11 PM	#20
Jelly Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2004 Location: Kentucky Posts: 238	Juliet, Not an excuse, but I'm just familiar with the "big-name" companies at this point and what they offer. The companies you mentioned produce ammo that show my previous statements to be incorrect...

December 2, 2004, 09:26 PM	#21
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,993	Ok, jc, you've made your point. If one is willing to buy $50 a box ammo from an ammo custom shop one can find .357Mag ammo that is equivalent to 10mm and .41 mag that exceeds 10mm power. This has a lot more to do with the fact that you can hot rod a revolver more easily (and probably more safely) than an autopistol than it has to do with what are "commonly accepted" power levels on the three rounds in question. Your POINT is correct. Your POSITION is proven. Unfortunately your point and position aren't particularly relevant to the person who wishes to shoot more than 10 boxes of ammo through his firearm before he's spent as much on ammo as he did on the gun... At the practical level A person buying ammo from more common sources and at more reasonable prices will find that "original strength" 10mm ammo is quite a bit more powerful than.357 mag ammo. A person buying ammo from more common sources and at more reasonable prices will find that "original strength" 10mm ammo is roughly comparable to .41 mag. .357Mag and .41Mag are NOT in danger of being replaced by 10mm. You don't need to open EVERY 10mm related thread and quote the stats that you found on the Buffalo Bore page in an effort to keep the 10mm from taking over. The 10mm will not supplant the magnum revolver rounds and autopistols will never completely eliminate revolvers. All will be well...

December 2, 2004, 10:00 PM	#22
Jelly Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2004 Location: Kentucky Posts: 238	I do agree with John though...

December 2, 2004, 10:07 PM	#23
juliet charley Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 1999 Posts: 2,501	"Open every thread?" Let's see. My post was number 15--that's not hardly opening the thread, is it? I'm not particularly worried about the 10mm taking over. I have a couple 10mm handguns and really like the calibre a lot. What I do care about is incorrect information being posted. If you will go back and read, you will see my post was in response to and to correct incorrect information in an earlier post. The 10mm is the bottom feeder equivalent of the .357 Magnum. If you want a bottom feeder for hunting, the 10mm is the way to go. If you want a wheelgun, you can go with the .357 Magnum or a number of even more powerful rounds including the .41 Magnum, .44 Magnum, .480 Ruger, .500 S&W, etc. BTW, if you really want "original strength" 10mm, you have to order it from a speciality company (Double Tap, Texas Ammo, etc.) just like you have to order "original strength" .357 Magnum from a speciality company (Double Tap, Buffalo Bore, etc.). You're not going to buy "original strenth" ammo in either calibre at Wal-Mart. --And do remember, that we are talking "original strength" in both calibres.

December 3, 2004, 12:01 AM	#25
juliet charley Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 1999 Posts: 2,501	Though you seem terribly obsessed about what and where I post, John, we both tend to participate in 10mm threads so the search would yield the about the same results whether we typed in your username or mine. While the Winchester Silvertip is a good load--and relatively hot load--it does not really qualify as an "original strength" load. I said I liked it, John, and I do. I did not say it is as "hot" as original load (or the loads offered by Double Tap, Texas Ammunition, etc.). If you want "original strength" 10mm loads, you have to rely on speciality ammo companies. FWIW, John, I like the Winchester Silvertip in .357 Magnum, as well--it is my normal carry load in that calibre. It is a good general purpose load in both calibres. Today's "major manufacture" .357 Magnum loads are not in the same class as the original 1935 loads designed for use in the N-frame--not, BTW, for the J and K-frames. Are the premium loads "hotter?" They may be--but not by much. It is a lot harder to pin down the "original strength" load for the 70 year old .357 Magnum than the relative newcomer 10mm. The best published figure I can find is a 158-grain bullet 1515 fps from a 8 3/8 inch barrel (not hardly a "10 or 15" test barrel" . That IS a lot "hotter" than current 158-grain loadings from R-P, W-W and Federal--and much closer to the current Buffalo Bore and Double Tap offerings. Of course, you have to consider that the powder used in the original loading 70 years ago is no longer available, and today's powders are generally a significant improvement, so, it is very reasonable to say Buffalo Bore's and Double Tap's offering are lot truer to the "original strength" loading than those offered by the major manufacturers. Now, John, why don't you stop talking about me and my posting patterns, and let this thread get back on topic. If you do have objection to what I post and in which threads I post, I would suggest the proper approach would be a PM to the moderators or administrator stating your concerns--it really their business not your's. If you just like to run a search for the thrill of checking my posts and posting patterns for some perverse, private pleasure of your own, then it would probably be best if you kept that secret pleasure all to yourself.