+P Brass

millerwb · January 15, 2009, 03:18 PM

Is there any difference between say .38 Spl brass and .38 Spl+P brass? I know the external dimensions are the same but are the internal dimensions the same?

And on that vein, what is a +P load? Is it just loaded near the maximum range?

Thanks

mnw42 · January 15, 2009, 03:55 PM

They have no difference other than the head stamp.

SL1 · January 15, 2009, 04:19 PM

I don't think there are any brass thickness or hardness difference between standard and +P .38 Special loads. The headstamp difference is to allow users to avoid using +P loads in old guns not designed for the higher pressure. SAAMI maximum pressure for standard .38 Special loads is 17,000 psi, and for +P loads it is 20,000 psi.

SL1

Sevens · January 15, 2009, 06:30 PM

Just wanted to add that "+P" designations are actual SAAMI designations and their use is to a set standard outlined by SAAMI. Or, to put it another way, you can't simply take a caliber, hop it up, and call it ".44 Magnum +P", because SAAMI sets the industry standard.

"Plus-P" may come across as "same caliber, higher pressure", but the truth is that is must still adhere to the industry standard of a safe pressure for that caliber designation.

If you took a .38 Special case filled it to the top with a fast burning powder, compacted the powder with a seated bullet, you'd definitely have a HIGH PRESSURE and incredibly dangerous little bomb on your hands, but you would NOT be holding a real .38 Special +P round.

Shoney · January 15, 2009, 08:03 PM

Here are the only 4 SAAMI designations of +P.

Cartridge and Maximum Average Pressure (PSI)

9mm Luger 35,000
9mm Luger +P 38,500

38 Special 17,000
38 Special +P 18,500

38 Super Auto +P 36,500

45 Auto 21,000
45 Auto +P 23,000

jjohnson · January 16, 2009, 05:44 PM

Yeah, and that word came from one of our US manufacturers.

As pointed out - it helps YOU keep 'em sorted. The manufacturer went on to say that it would cost them more to make .38 cases to two different standards, so you get +p quality brass at 'standard' brass prices... or somebody is screwing you....

WESHOOT2 · January 17, 2009, 11:51 AM

Certain 38 Special +P cases ARE different.
Most aren't.

Tom2 · January 17, 2009, 12:04 PM

Why would the +P cases have to be any different? The pressures are higher but by no means "magnumized" or anything. For that matter, how much different is a .357 case sectioned in half, as compared to the same brand .38, besides the length? I suppose I could dig out some and section them, but someone may have saved me the trouble. There is a variation in case thickness between makers sometimes, and varying internal volumes, I don't think this should be interpreted as measures taken for heavier loads.

Gazzmann · January 17, 2009, 03:50 PM

I have contacted S&W. They explained if the S&W 38 was built before 1977 plus-p loads were not recommended. Just a fyi.
John

GoldenRoyBoy · January 24, 2009, 08:04 AM

I purchased some 45acp brass recently; opting for the plus P rated brass from Starline. Here is what Starline has to say about their P rated brass ---

45 Auto+P is a strengthened version of the 45 Auto with the same external dimensions. A thicker web and heavier sidewall at base strengthens the case in potentially unsupported areas. This case has approximately 2 grains less internal capacity than the standard 45 Auto.

Here's their link; look under "Product Information and Description" ---

http://www.starlinebrass.com/

**I came back to add information from Starline, regarding their 38 super P brass.

"38 SPL+P has no difference from the standard 38 SPL, other than headstamp designation for load segregation. Due to standard case design, will handle +P pressures with no problems. "

Shoot safe!
GRB

Sevens · January 24, 2009, 08:17 AM

I would have to say that Starline's process is outside the norm of the ammo factories. I would imagine their "thicker" .45 +p brass has something to do with folks' wanting to build .45 Super loads out of them.

Did Starline also have something to do with some of the huge super magnum revolver calibers going to a deeper primer pocket for use with rifle primers? I don't know if SAAMI had a hand in that or if Starline took the ball and ran with it.

WESHOOT2 · January 24, 2009, 09:18 AM

Starline has often provided cases to others in the industry.

jjohnson · February 9, 2009, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Is there any difference between say .38 Spl brass and .38 Spl+P brass?

I was told by Starline the difference is in the marking on .38 Special. Entirely possible that it's not the same for all calibers for all manufacturers.

Just figured I'd steer this thread back a little.

wpcexpert · February 9, 2009, 09:49 PM

Quote:

45 Auto+P is a strengthened version of the 45 Auto with the same external dimensions. A thicker web and heavier sidewall at base strengthens the case in potentially unsupported areas. This case has approximately 2 grains less internal capacity than the standard 45 Auto.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that create a dangerous round. If you take a case that has a 20gr capacity, put 10 grains in it, you've got a standard cartridge. Now take the same caliber and put 10gr in the case with only 18gr capacity, you would have a spike in pressure. Now if they are truly +Powder, you've got a lot more pressure?

It was explained to me that it would cost too much $ to create 2 different cases for the regular and +P. So we get the +P cases, just a different head stamp.

Alleykat · February 10, 2009, 05:47 PM

Starline's .45ACP +p cases are thicker and stronger than their regular .45ACP brass. I don't know if other brass manufacturers also make their .45ACP brass thicker and stronger or not. Starline's .400 Cor-Bon brass is their .45ACP brass necked down, and with a small primer pocket.

Starline's 9mm +P brass is the same as their "standard" 9mm brass, except for the head stamp.

January 15, 2009, 03:18 PM	#1
millerwb Member Join Date: December 13, 2008 Posts: 63	+P Brass Is there any difference between say .38 Spl brass and .38 Spl+P brass? I know the external dimensions are the same but are the internal dimensions the same? And on that vein, what is a +P load? Is it just loaded near the maximum range? Thanks

January 15, 2009, 06:30 PM	#4
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Just wanted to add that "+P" designations are actual SAAMI designations and their use is to a set standard outlined by SAAMI. Or, to put it another way, you can't simply take a caliber, hop it up, and call it ".44 Magnum +P", because SAAMI sets the industry standard. "Plus-P" may come across as "same caliber, higher pressure", but the truth is that is must still adhere to the industry standard of a safe pressure for that caliber designation. If you took a .38 Special case filled it to the top with a fast burning powder, compacted the powder with a seated bullet, you'd definitely have a HIGH PRESSURE and incredibly dangerous little bomb on your hands, but you would NOT be holding a real .38 Special +P round. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

January 15, 2009, 08:03 PM	#5
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	Here are the only 4 SAAMI designations of +P. Cartridge and Maximum Average Pressure (PSI) 9mm Luger 35,000 9mm Luger +P 38,500 38 Special 17,000 38 Special +P 18,500 38 Super Auto +P 36,500 45 Auto 21,000 45 Auto +P 23,000 __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

January 16, 2009, 05:44 PM	#6
jjohnson Member Join Date: December 10, 2007 Posts: 72	Just the Headstamp Yeah, and that word came from one of our US manufacturers. As pointed out - it helps YOU keep 'em sorted. The manufacturer went on to say that it would cost them more to make .38 cases to two different standards, so you get +p quality brass at 'standard' brass prices... or somebody is screwing you....

January 17, 2009, 11:51 AM	#7
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	horse pucky Certain 38 Special +P cases ARE different. Most aren't. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

January 15, 2009, 03:55 PM	#2
mnw42 Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2008 Location: Bucks Co., PA Posts: 210	They have no difference other than the head stamp.

January 15, 2009, 04:19 PM	#3
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	I don't think there are any brass thickness or hardness difference between standard and +P .38 Special loads. The headstamp difference is to allow users to avoid using +P loads in old guns not designed for the higher pressure. SAAMI maximum pressure for standard .38 Special loads is 17,000 psi, and for +P loads it is 20,000 psi. SL1

January 17, 2009, 12:04 PM	#8
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	Why would the +P cases have to be any different? The pressures are higher but by no means "magnumized" or anything. For that matter, how much different is a .357 case sectioned in half, as compared to the same brand .38, besides the length? I suppose I could dig out some and section them, but someone may have saved me the trouble. There is a variation in case thickness between makers sometimes, and varying internal volumes, I don't think this should be interpreted as measures taken for heavier loads. __________________ Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!

January 17, 2009, 03:50 PM	#9
Gazzmann Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2007 Location: South Florida Posts: 133	I have contacted S&W. They explained if the S&W 38 was built before 1977 plus-p loads were not recommended. Just a fyi. John

January 24, 2009, 08:04 AM	#10
GoldenRoyBoy Junior member Join Date: November 10, 2008 Location: Trinidad, Colorado Posts: 107	It's my understanding, there is a difference --- I purchased some 45acp brass recently; opting for the plus P rated brass from Starline. Here is what Starline has to say about their P rated brass --- 45 Auto+P is a strengthened version of the 45 Auto with the same external dimensions. A thicker web and heavier sidewall at base strengthens the case in potentially unsupported areas. This case has approximately 2 grains less internal capacity than the standard 45 Auto. Here's their link; look under "Product Information and Description" --- http://www.starlinebrass.com/ *I came back to add information from Starline, regarding their 38 super P brass. "38 SPL+P has no difference from the standard 38 SPL, other than headstamp designation for load segregation. Due to standard case design, will handle +P pressures with no problems. "* Shoot safe! GRB Last edited by GoldenRoyBoy; January 24, 2009 at 08:08 AM. Reason: Additional Information ---

January 24, 2009, 08:17 AM	#11
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	I would have to say that Starline's process is outside the norm of the ammo factories. I would imagine their "thicker" .45 +p brass has something to do with folks' wanting to build .45 Super loads out of them. Did Starline also have something to do with some of the huge super magnum revolver calibers going to a deeper primer pocket for use with rifle primers? I don't know if SAAMI had a hand in that or if Starline took the ball and ran with it. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

January 24, 2009, 09:18 AM	#12
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	are all cars the same? Starline has often provided cases to others in the industry. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

February 10, 2009, 05:47 PM	#15
Alleykat Junior member Join Date: July 26, 2007 Posts: 3,668	Starline's .45ACP +p cases are thicker and stronger than their regular .45ACP brass. I don't know if other brass manufacturers also make their .45ACP brass thicker and stronger or not. Starline's .400 Cor-Bon brass is their .45ACP brass necked down, and with a small primer pocket. Starline's 9mm +P brass is the same as their "standard" 9mm brass, except for the head stamp.