.223, what do I need?

[R.Lynn]

I have been reloading 9mm on a Lee turret press. I would like to start reloading .223 for a mini 14 I recently puchased. I have several lee small tools; a primer pocket cleaner, a cutter and lock stud, and a chamfer tool.

What else do I need to get started?

Here is my list so far:

lee deluxe rifle die set
lee zip trim (unsure as to how much case trimming is done on .223)
lee rifle charging die(unsure of necessity)

Will I need case lube?
Will my lee auto primer work for small rifle primers?
What is a good powder to use that will work well for.223 and .270(next)?

Thanks for the help in advance,
R.lynn

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

.223, what do I need?

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I have been reloading 9mm on a Lee turret press. I would like to start reloading .223 for a mini 14 I recently puchased. I have several lee small tools; a primer pocket cleaner, a cutter and lock stud, and a chamfer tool.

What else do I need to get started?

Here is my list so far:

lee deluxe rifle die set
lee zip trim (unsure as to how much case trimming is done on .223)
lee rifle charging die(unsure of necessity)

Will I need case lube?
Will my lee auto primer work for small rifle primers?
What is a good powder to use that will work well for.223 and .270(next)?

Thanks for the help in advance,
R.lynn

die set is a good choice. you will have to full length size after each firing so the rounds function properly. Lee also make an RGB set, and I think it contains a bullet seating die and a full length sizer. The deluxe kit comes with a collet neck sizer, which is primarily used in bolt rifles to neck size only. Unless you have or are gonna get a .223 bolt rifle, you probably don't need the colletneck sizer. I would get a lee factory crimp die. I have one...it works awesome. You will want case lube. Lee is good. I like hornady one shot. most people hate it...but you have to be generous with it. Lee auto primer will work for small rifle primers. Make sure you us the tray that has the "s" on the underside and use the small primer seating rod thingy. You will be trimming your brass a lot. I also have the lee case trimmer I put in a cordless drill. I trim and chamfer/debur while it is still in the drill. Much faster that way. Don't need the lee rifle charging die. Just get a good funnel. Main thing is that you check and make sure your brass is at or under Max trim length after each firing. Measure your brass AFTER you full length size the brass. As far as powder, Hodgdon Varget is SWEEEEEET!!!!

[Inspector3711]

Since you are reloading for a semi auto you'll need to full length resize every time. This also means you'll need to trim cases, and possibly every time depending on how they measure after resizing. With a bolt action you can neck size only and not have to trim as often plus your brass can last longer.


You will need case lube (I use Imperial) for the outside below the case shoulder and lube for inside the neck (I use graphite brushed on with an old worn out .22 cleaning brush). These both need to be applied before FL resizing. I think the auto prime will work but you need to check with Lee to make sure you've got what you need to do small rifle primers, it seems like I've read that they're different from small pistol..

There's always cheap ways to do things. One thing I'll try next time I'm out of case lube is Kiwi mink oil for shoes. You can get it for a couple of bucks at Walmart and they say it's just as good and the container is 3 times the size of imperial. Imperial runs about $7.

Varget is a powder that I started with for .223 and .25-06, it'll work for .270 as well. Then you can buy one powder for both at least to get started. I was on a tight budget and this helped. I've since moved on to H331 for the .223 but still have great results with Varget in my .25-06 which is based on the .30-06 just like the .270.

You only need a charging die if you are using a progressive press.

I use the Lyman universal powder funnel when loading on a single stage press. It fits nearly every case made and was only about $7.

That Lee deluxe die set comes with a collet die. Since you are shooting an auto and should be full length resizing i'm not so sure you need it. You could get a Lee set with just a FL sizing die, bullet seating die and crimp die. You need to crimp for a semi auto but not a bolt action. They have a set called "Lee Pacesetter" (Not RGB which doesn't have the crimp die) in .223 for $22.99 at Cabelas but the same set is on sale at Midway USA for 19.99..

You can always get a collet die for that caliber ($16) later but should only need it if you add a bolt action to your collection. You're talking about .270... If you get a bolt action then you should buy the deluxe set.

[totalloser]

lee deluxe rifle die set: Includes everything but the rifle charge die to use an automatic powder dispenser

lee zip trim (unsure as to how much case trimming is done on .223): You'll need the length gauge and cutter-the ball handle is nice, too. Brass MUST be measured/trimmed to length. MUST.

lee rifle charging die(unsure of necessity): Get one to use your auto powder measure if you don't want to hand charge.

Will I need case lube?: yes. but engine motor oil works just fine.

Will my lee auto primer work for small rifle primers?: mine does.

What is a good powder to use that will work well for.223 and .270(next)?: Too many good powders to even begin to answer. I use surplus wc846 bl-(c)2 and win748 for .223 and .308 and like them.

If you have an extra hole (not sure which turret you have) a crimp is nice. I have had good luck with accuracy in my autoloaders using a crimp. Some reloading manuals call for a crimp in any autoloader, and the fcd is MUCH more user friendly than the roll crimp in the seating die.

Good luck and have fun!

[scsov509]

I would like to start reloading .223 for a mini 14 I recently puchased.

You're going to want to consider a brass catcher since trying to find brass ejected from a Mini gets pretty difficult.

Seriously though, you should consider either getting a monster supply of brass, a brass catcher, or investing into an aftermarket gas bushing. I love my Mini to death, but hate trying to scrounge my brass when I shoot it. So I've found that my Mini is getting less an less love these days when my AR is more accurate, and drops the brass into one little nice pile. Just consider some way of making brass recovery a little easier.

[CrustyFN]

I have been reloading 9mm on a Lee turret press. I would like to start reloading .223 for a mini 14 I recently puchased. I have several lee small tools; a primer pocket cleaner, a cutter and lock stud, and a chamfer tool.

What else do I need to get started?

Here is my list so far:

lee deluxe rifle die set
I load for a AR15 and like the Pacesetter die set better, it comes with a separate crimp die, FL sizer, seater and shell holder.
lee zip trim (unsure as to how much case trimming is done on .223)
I hear the Zip Trim works good but I like to put the lockstud in a drill, trims very fast.
lee rifle charging die(unsure of necessity)
Yes you will need that.

Will I need case lube?
Yes
Will my lee auto primer work for small rifle primers?
Yes
What is a good powder to use that will work well for.223 and .270(next)?
I like W748 and H335. I don't know about the 270.

Rusty

[Antihero47]

Lee Trim Gauge - Fits into Cutter and gives you correct shell holder
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=107333

LeePace Setter Dies - Full Length Resize, Seating, Lee Factory Crimp dies
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=434975

Lee Zip Trim
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=515804

Lee Rifle Charging Die
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=792057

Imperial Sizing Wax
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct...tnumber=519525

(use this stuff sparingly, you do not need much. What I do is when I pick up a round to put it into the shell holder on the press, I use my thumb, index, and middle finger to rub it over the case (in left hand, I'm right handed), residual amount from one swipe should last you about 6-7 cases before needing more.)

Powder, Primers, and Quality Bullets from these suppliers. Buy powder AND primers together, deal with only one $22.50 hazmat fees. (nobody has anything right now, I was lucky to get BL-C(2) when it was available from grafs.... gone in a day.)

www.powdervalleyinc.com
www.wideners.com
www.grafs.com

Plinking Bullets
www.goldenwestbrass.com

Brass
http://www.scharch.com/

[FrankenMauser]

lee zip trim No. It may be helpful, but if you have the cutter and lockstud, you can just do it by hand. Once you have the funds available, buy a higher quality case trimmer. (I own a zip-trim. It's crap.)

Will I need case lube? Absolutely. (Spray, oil, wax, goo-lube... your choice.)
Will my lee auto primer work for small rifle primers? Yes.
What is a good powder to use that will work well for.223 and .270(next)? My choice would be H4895 / IMR 4895 for starters. But... not all ARs like 4895. (Although it is a very versatile powder for the .270) It's always best to have several powders available. I would concentrate on the .223 for now. Worry about powder for the .270 separately.

[PCJim]

You'll also need either a primer pocket swager or primer pocket reamer to remove the crimps found in almost all 223 cases sold today. Do a google search for pictures of what the crimp typically looks like. If you find a primer does not seat under normal pressure, your brass was crimped and that crimp will have to be removed.

[FrankenMauser]

You'll also need either a primer pocket swager or primer pocket reamer to remove the crimps found in almost all 223 cases sold today.

Several brands offer brass uncrimped in factory ammunition. Both that ammunition, or once-fired brass are good ways to get it. (If you don't want to deal with crimps.)

However, the RCBS chamfer/deburring tool is a very simple way to remove crimp. There are quite a few posts on TFL explaining how we cheapos use the tool to slightly bevel the primer pocket rim, thus removing the offending restriction.

Reloaders that choose to use a primer pocket swaging tool have their reasons, but there are quite a few of us that don't like the idea. Working the case head (and making it more brittle) is not something I get warm-fuzzies about. Removing the offending brass without working the case head... is what I prefer. (Reamers also work.)

[CrustyFN]

Crimped primer pocket.


Rusty

[CrustyFN]

Once you have the funds available, buy a higher quality case trimmer.

Just wondering what trimmer that would be? I use the Lee and seems to me the Lyman or RCSB would be quite a bit slower than the Lee for a lot more money.
Rusty

[Antihero47]

lee zip trim No. It may be helpful, but if you have the cutter and lockstud, you can just do it by hand. Once you have the funds available, buy a higher quality case trimmer. (I own a zip-trim. It's crap.)

I would have to agree with Crusty... he's loading 223 for a semi automatic. What exactly is he going to need the quality case trimmer for? If he were using it for competition or using a bolt gun I could understand. In this case just use whatever you can to get the cases trimmed and 'fireable' for the next reloads.

[Inspector3711]

What exactly is he going to need the quality case trimmer for? If he were using it for competition or using a bolt gun I could understand

Guys... He did mention that he's looking at reloading .270 as well. I assume that means bolt action.

If I were him I might opt for a little extra money on a nice trimmer. The Lee works, but if he bought a little nicer one up front then he would be set later on. I bought a Forster kit from Cabelas that comes with everything you need to do 5 neck diameters (including .223 and .270 cases). It has 3 collets as well and each one does 3 base sizes. In short, you can trim alot of different cartridges without having to buy any extras.

For $15 more I bought the power adapter. I can hold +/-.001 and run pretty fast with my 14.4 Dewalt drill hooked up. I think it will last a lifetime and I can get replacement parts for pretty cheap if something does wear out.

I have Lee stuff too and have nothing against the brand.

[Inspector3711]

Another thing... Crusty posted pics of crimped primers. Just want to point out that there are two types of crimps. His pics show a ring crimp. There are also stake crimps. You'll know it by the three dents in the brass around the primer. They need to be reamed or swaged as well.

[CrustyFN]

Inspector, just wondering about your trimmer. I have only used the Lee and can chamfer and debur while it is still in the drill from being trimmed, 3 to 5 seconds total. Can you chamfer/debur using the power adapter and drill with your setup? If so then it wouldn't be as slow as I originally thought.
Rusty

[PCJim]

If he will be reloading any quantities of 223, he should consider the Possum Hollow trimmer and power adapter. They are in high demand right now, so availability might be a problem. The trimmer works off the shoulder datum, like the most expensive Giraud unit, and makes trimming quick and reliable. Of course, based on the shoulder datum, you can have very minor variances in overall case length if the FL die does not properly set the shoulder back.

There is a youtube video of some fella using one with a lockable variable speed drill. I use the same setup and no, that's not me in the video.

[Inspector3711]

I have a possum hollow trimmer. Works good but I used it by hand early on and got tired of blisters. I didn't have the power adapter.

Crusty,

The Forster trimmer has all kinds of attachments available including a hollowpointer, and primer hole cleaners, and I don't know what else, check their site

It's made so you can swap out the cutter shaft for a Forster deburring tool but you'd want to trim them all and then swap and debur them all. You have to remove a lock ring from the cutter shaft which may take 2 seconds but you'd get tired of doing it for every case. I haven't gotten that far and use a VLD deburring tool for rifles anyway which won't fit in the trimmer. The nice thing is it's easy to switch shells with the way the collet is set up. Takes a fraction of a second.

It also uses the arbor in the neck to keep everything concentric while the case is rotating during trimming. I think for the money it's a best buy.

I was looking for a Redding and they were out of stock. It's an hour drive to Cabelas so i figured I better come home with a trimmer before the wife got her meathooks in my wallet. Turns out to be a great choice and I saved about $40 which I promptly spent on powder! The power adapter is about the cheapest on the market too.

[FrankenMauser]

Just wondering what trimmer that would be? I use the Lee and seems to me the Lyman or RCSB would be quite a bit slower than the Lee for a lot more money.

I would have to agree with Crusty... he's loading 223 for a semi automatic. What exactly is he going to need the quality case trimmer for? If he were using it for competition or using a bolt gun I could understand. In this case just use whatever you can to get the cases trimmed and 'fireable' for the next reloads.

He said he already has a cutter head and lock stud. That means he can trim by hand, or with a drill.


As for "higher quality" equating to "higher speed".... I fail to see where you made that connection.
Higher quality means higher quality. The Zip-Trim is friggin plastic, with ONE setting for your trim length. (Whatever length the trim stud was made to.) Many people get by with in. (Including me. I did say I own one.) But, it is a pile of crap, and not acceptable for precision reloading.
Lyman, Forster, RCBS, the list goes on... They are all higher quality trimmers than the Lee; in construction alone. (With even higher quality trimmers available above their level, as well.)

Any of the higher quality trimmers allow you to set the exact case length you want. Each brand has unique attributes. However, they generally also allow you to get primer pocket reaming adapters.

Bottom line:
He already owns what he needs to trim. However, if R.Lynn wants to upgrade to some quality equipment, or properly trim his .270 Win brass... he can do so in the future.
I strongly suggest not buying a Zip-Trim, if you want any control over your cartridge case length.

[Inspector3711]

Lyman, Forster, RCBS, the list goes on... They are all higher quality trimmers

What he ^ said... The reason I was pushing the Forster is because 1) I'm very happy with mine and 2) although I'm not a big Cabelas shopper, they do stock the kit that comes with all the goodies I mentioned . This kit costs like $15 extra but comes with $40 worth of arbors and collets.

It may not be the best trimmer but it's a great quality trimmer for the money if you buy the kit. It's good enough to be used by some top notch competition shooters.