locked threads?

Gorthaur · January 19, 2000, 11:52 PM

You guys do know that UBB has an option to break long threads into multiple pages, don't you? I've never seen a forum with so many locked threads....

DC · January 20, 2000, 12:21 PM

Yeah we know about that option. The problem with it is that you still have to go thru the first page...so, net zero gain.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!

[email protected] · January 20, 2000, 04:21 PM

Actually, that's not entirely correct. Some things have gains that aren't readily apparent, and bandwidth isn't the only issue at play here.

The UBB has several options that can be used that have varying effects on the server load. While on the surface there may not be any effect, there definitely is one behind the scenes.

As far as page breaks go, the "Maximum Number of Posts Displayed Per Topic (HTML) Page" allows for a wide range of settings, specifically page breaks at 15, 25, 35, 40, 50, 75, and No Maximum. Naturally, the lower the number of posts before page breaks, the faster the download; it shrinks the overall file download size, which is important when you consider that the 1st page is going to reload whenever you make a response. Would you rather reload a 180k thread, or a 50k page? Remember, when apparent speed is judged by how fast a page downloads, those long pages make people think the site is crawling.

There are diminishing returns at both ends of the spectrum - at 75 posts before a page breaks, you aren't likely to have many page breaks and download size per page is going to be huge; at 15 posts before a break, you are liable to PO your readers by making them flip through too many pages. I've found that the 35 or 40 range works great, as there's plenty to read before changing a page, but it's still a pretty fast download. While you are correct in that they do have to enter the front page, the benefit comes in when you have a particularly popular topic that breaks into 3 or more pages. The page breaks allow the readers to skip from the 1st to the 3rd (or 4th, or 5th) page instead of going through each one.

There is also the "Maximum Topics Displayed Per Page" option. The UBB has several settings for this: 25, 35, 40, 50, 75, and No Maximum. Before, it was set to No Maximum. As a result, all of the forums would show every topic for the last X number of days, with X being what the default or their preferences was set at. Unfortunately with certain forums (General, Handgun, and Legal / Political) would have hundreds of topics started in that amount of time, causing massive downloads every time someone would go to that category.

Now, where does this tie in with server problems? In order to understand that, you need to understand a little bit of the mechanics of how a server works.

With Linux, there is a finite number of processes that can be operating at the same time. Each time you download a page, perform a search, post a topic, set your preferences, etc, a process is started. When that task is completed, the process dies, allowing another process to start.

When there are extremely long posts, threads, topic displays, etc, it takes that much longer for each process to die. When you have as much traffic as TFL and BladeForums.com generate, a lot of processes are going at the same time. If too many processes are going at the same time, you start getting server errors, because there are more people trying to connect than the server can accommodate. The shorter the threads are and the shorter the topic display is, the more people can use TFL because the connections open a lot faster. When you have a lot of very very long threads being downloaded, combined with extremely long topic lists being displayed, combined with people searching all forums... you have a lot of processes that take a long time to complete. As a result, you have a lot of people forming a line waiting for the next chance to do something... causing server bottlenecks.

When you have too many processes waiting, and no ability to serve them, you get internal server errors. Hopefully the changes Rich made will prevent TFL from overwhelming the server, though IMHO it would be more efficient for everyone if he lowered the number of threads for the page breaks to 40 or so...

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com
www.bladeforums.com

January 19, 2000, 11:52 PM	#1
Gorthaur Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2000 Posts: 846	You guys do know that UBB has an option to break long threads into multiple pages, don't you? I've never seen a forum with so many locked threads....

January 20, 2000, 12:21 PM	#2
DC Moderator Emeritus Join Date: September 30, 1998 Location: Calif Posts: 4,229	Yeah we know about that option. The problem with it is that you still have to go thru the first page...so, net zero gain. ------------------ "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!

January 20, 2000, 04:21 PM	#3
[email protected] Wise Guy Join Date: October 10, 1998 Posts: 665	Actually, that's not entirely correct. Some things have gains that aren't readily apparent, and bandwidth isn't the only issue at play here. The UBB has several options that can be used that have varying effects on the server load. While on the surface there may not be any effect, there definitely is one behind the scenes. As far as page breaks go, the "Maximum Number of Posts Displayed Per Topic (HTML) Page" allows for a wide range of settings, specifically page breaks at 15, 25, 35, 40, 50, 75, and No Maximum. Naturally, the lower the number of posts before page breaks, the faster the download; it shrinks the overall file download size, which is important when you consider that the 1st page is going to reload whenever you make a response. Would you rather reload a 180k thread, or a 50k page? Remember, when apparent speed is judged by how fast a page downloads, those long pages make people think the site is crawling. There are diminishing returns at both ends of the spectrum - at 75 posts before a page breaks, you aren't likely to have many page breaks and download size per page is going to be huge; at 15 posts before a break, you are liable to PO your readers by making them flip through too many pages. I've found that the 35 or 40 range works great, as there's plenty to read before changing a page, but it's still a pretty fast download. While you are correct in that they do have to enter the front page, the benefit comes in when you have a particularly popular topic that breaks into 3 or more pages. The page breaks allow the readers to skip from the 1st to the 3rd (or 4th, or 5th) page instead of going through each one. There is also the "Maximum Topics Displayed Per Page" option. The UBB has several settings for this: 25, 35, 40, 50, 75, and No Maximum. Before, it was set to No Maximum. As a result, all of the forums would show every topic for the last X number of days, with X being what the default or their preferences was set at. Unfortunately with certain forums (General, Handgun, and Legal / Political) would have hundreds of topics started in that amount of time, causing massive downloads every time someone would go to that category. Now, where does this tie in with server problems? In order to understand that, you need to understand a little bit of the mechanics of how a server works. With Linux, there is a finite number of processes that can be operating at the same time. Each time you download a page, perform a search, post a topic, set your preferences, etc, a process is started. When that task is completed, the process dies, allowing another process to start. When there are extremely long posts, threads, topic displays, etc, it takes that much longer for each process to die. When you have as much traffic as TFL and BladeForums.com generate, a lot of processes are going at the same time. If too many processes are going at the same time, you start getting server errors, because there are more people trying to connect than the server can accommodate. The shorter the threads are and the shorter the topic display is, the more people can use TFL because the connections open a lot faster. When you have a lot of very very long threads being downloaded, combined with extremely long topic lists being displayed, combined with people searching all forums... you have a lot of processes that take a long time to complete. As a result, you have a lot of people forming a line waiting for the next chance to do something... causing server bottlenecks. When you have too many processes waiting, and no ability to serve them, you get internal server errors. Hopefully the changes Rich made will prevent TFL from overwhelming the server, though IMHO it would be more efficient for everyone if he lowered the number of threads for the page breaks to 40 or so... Spark ------------------ Kevin Jon Schlossberg SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com www.bladeforums.com