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Old January 15, 2002, 12:55 AM   #26
Steve Smith
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Labgrade, I hope you didn't think I was trying to discredit your reloading skills...I was just giving some ideas that you might not have though of.

Concerning the chrome lining, I had to reread your original post...you have a Colt...I was thinking you had a Bushy. Most all the Bushy's except the few with match barrels are chrome lined. That's where I got that from. Yo no knowledge-o Colto. Sorry.
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Old January 15, 2002, 09:24 AM   #27
labgrade
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"I hope you didn't think I was trying to discredit your reloading skills"

Not at all, Steve. Plenty oftimes I've had to slap my head 'cause I've overlooked something ....
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Old January 15, 2002, 04:34 PM   #28
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Quote:
How'd I know if I've a chrome-lined chamber or barrel?
Ok, nothing with Colt is sacred, but a good rule of thumb is to look just in front of the front sight tower. There should be an MP for the magnetic testing of the steel, "COLT" and your twist rate. There may also be a "C" or a "CB" preceding these. CB should be chrome bore (fully chrome lined) and "C" should mean a chromed chamber only. Of course, my barrel doesn't follow this trend, as it is marked "C", but I can see the chrome lining at the muzzle crown. Basically a shiny rim around the bore. I'm 90% sure that it's chrome lined.

Quote:
Go get yourself some 69, 77, and 80 grain SMKs and try that baby out with them. Step 'em out to maybe .015" off the lands to start with. Yes, you'll have to single load 'em. Make sure there's enough case to hold the bullet. See what she'll do then
BAH! I know, I'm just annoyed at my stupidity. My dad had to "straw purchase" my HBAR for me, as I was 16 at the time,had only been reloading for a few years, and knew nothing of twist rates and their importance on bullet integrity.
I really wanted a varminter at the time of purchase, not a highpower gun that has to eat from a single round tray, or shoot specialized stubbied "magazine length" match bullets to get decent accuracy. I could shoot bullets no heavier than 68grs all day long, never shoot past 300yds and be happy as a clam. Several times I've come close to ditching this barrel, but I hate to part with a Colt barrel and turn my weapon into a "parts gun". Funds are also a limiting factor for me at this time....
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Old January 15, 2002, 04:43 PM   #29
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Mine says "C MP 5.56 NATO 1/9 HBAR" ... that's the problem! I've been using .223 Rem in this here gun!
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Old January 15, 2002, 08:45 PM   #30
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Nice one Labgrade....... wish all the problems were so easy to fix Do you have access to a similar rifle that you can use for comparison purposes at all? (even better, 2 similar rifles would give a very good guide) I'd be interested in seeing what the results are from the comparison/s, if you can borrow or get a mate to shoot side by side with you using the same ammo in lots of five for about half a dozen loads with different bullet weights. That might indicate where the problem lies......
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Old January 15, 2002, 09:33 PM   #31
labgrade
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Closest thing's a bud who's got a Bushy (maybe OA) - I disremember.

In any event, I still think the optics I'm using is a far worse handicap than any ammo I'm shooting right now re group size.

Fine shooter otherwise & even with what I've on it now, it still is set up exactly as I want. Tough for me to get decent groupings at 100 w/just 6X & that's frustrating.

Far as having pressure signs at 10% below max listed, I can always start at 15% below & see where that goes. No idea as to speed & given a nice tight load or another +/-100 fps ... take a guess ....
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Old January 15, 2002, 11:42 PM   #32
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Go on, lash out and get yourself a good scope!! A nice 3.5-10x Leupold Vari-X III AO in 40mm or 50mm will do quite nicely, they're around $690 US. If you think that's steep, our South Pacific Peso is worth bugger-all and we nearly have to pay double around $1350 Aussie Pesos!! That's what you get when you deregulate your economy....... And our dollar used to be worth $1.20 US before deregulation:barf:
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Old January 16, 2002, 12:15 AM   #33
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Nope, bsmart, got the scope already (a B&: Elite 4000 6X24 AO, etc.), currently on the .22-250 - just have to switch it over to the HBAR.

Several 3X9s, etc. as well - coupla L's too boot.

Just haven't taken the time/effort to throw a "high mag" scope on the .223 ... pain re having to resight the "big" .22 afterwards, etc.

Hasn't been that much of a deal with me re the HBAR "not shootin' ." It does do what I want within 5reason.

The thing that does bug me though is having to dink so much with this thing compared to any other rifle/handgun I've ever loaded for.

'Course too, I've never tried for a semi-auto rifle before either ....

& don't get too beat up about your ecomomy. I'm sure ours will follow toot sweet. :barf:

Argentina, Japan's on its way .... hey presto! in our lovely global community, we'll all get to suck it soon enough.
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Old January 16, 2002, 11:05 PM   #34
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Well Labgrade, you've certainly got the goods with the bee circumcising scope you've have Go on, be a devil and spend a day mucking around with it. Then you'll have left nothing to chance. I suppose being your first semi does take getting used to. If you use them all the time and are familiar with them, they should perform okay for you, again it's a case of putting in the hours and getting to the stage where it's second nature. You should see what the Jarheads said about the M4 MWS, lotsa problems that the designer should have forseen but didnt act on and as a result ended up with major dramas with the gun. Check this out:
http://www.lejeune.usmc.mil/2dmardiv...rmation/m4.htm
Makes very interesting reading, especially the Pt3 section of the review.
Johnno


Sorry, had to stuff around with URL to get it right, It works ok now
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Old March 26, 2002, 11:45 AM   #35
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Steve, you've made the point several times that small base dies aren't necessary for AR's, with the exception of RCBS dies. Do you know why RCBS non-SB dies aren't adequate? Are the internal dimensions that much different than other brands?

Just wondering, since I've got to shop for some dies, and RCBS has always been good quality.

Thanks.
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Old March 26, 2002, 01:57 PM   #36
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"Do you know why RCBS non-SB dies aren't adequate?"

SB dies are adequate if case life isn't as important to you. They will definately work your brass more than other dies, though. Here's the deal. I've been watching trends over at AR15.com; very often, when someone has a chambering problem with an AR, it turns out they're using standard .223 RCBS dies. Often, they'll switch to the small-base and that of course fixes the problem (asuming that the rifle itself is ok). However, I believe that MANY are going from one extreme to the other. The standard RCBS die has definately shown a trend to cause problems with ARs, but the SB RCBS ruins case life (most get 3 loadings at best using it). I and many others, however, have found that non-RCBS dies may provide good brass life and reliable functioning at the same time. I have gotten 5 loads out of my LC brass using a Redding "S" type full length die, and they're still in great shape. Many others who have been using the die longer have gotten 8-10 reloads on AVERAGE. That's awesome for a semi-auto rifle cartridge. The key is to only size it enough to function reliably, and to take it easy on the neck. It appears that the Redding die sizes the walls more than the standard RCBS, but less than the SB. On the neck, you can get the perfect bushing that will allow you to just barely size the neck...just enough for bullet retention, or if you choose, a whole lot of tension. They're in .001" increments, so you have a choice. Obviously, the less you size it, the longer it'll last. I also set my die so that it pushes the shoulder only .003" back from its fired position.

I'm not trying to say that the Redding is best, but I am saying that there are trends that show that RCBS' die dimensions may not be best for use in the AR.
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Old March 26, 2002, 04:50 PM   #37
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Thanks, Steve. I'll look for some Redding dies at the next show.
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Old March 26, 2002, 05:19 PM   #38
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If you're talking about the "S" die, good friggin' luck. Finding the "S" die at a show would be a little surprising. Its kinda a competition thing. On top of that, finding a bushing the right size at a show is even more unlikely. I wound up buying 5 bushings to find one that would work properly (they're idea of neck tension and my idea are two different things) If you size the crap out of the neck, then expand it again on the expander ball (not necessary, I know) than what have you done? You worked your brass, that's it. My necks just barely graze the expander ball on the way out...I still have plenty of tension to keep bullets from moving. Remember, they make the "S" in a full length and a neck version. Get the FL.

You can find Reddng "S" types at www.midwayusa.com and www.sinclairintl.com

If you're going that far, you'd might as well get a Forster Ultra seating die.

If you need any of the bushings from .243 to .246 let me know...I'd be happy to recooperate some money out of them.
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Old March 26, 2002, 06:51 PM   #39
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OK, Steve, now I see what you mean. You're more "persnickety" about your reloads than I could ever be.
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Old March 26, 2002, 06:58 PM   #40
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No, I'm cheap. I spent some cash on the right die so in the future, I won't have to buy as much brass.
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Old March 30, 2002, 04:51 PM   #41
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Accurate .223 loads

bsmart:
I've been there and dun that.
I am describing the reaction of a "pencil thin" Ruger MK-II Ulra-Lite. After having the rifle 11 years, I worked up the 21.5 gr load. You have to FIRE a round to heat the Ultra-Lite's barrel or get a 3 1/2 inch group. For 10 or so years I shot squirels and ground hogs out of my city window using a 55 grain JSP WITH 5.6 grains of UNIQUE. The estimated velocity is 1850 fps. Getting the gun to shoot this good was a task and a half.
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Old March 31, 2002, 07:34 AM   #42
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Where does the 1st shot go?

The 1st shot usually goes the left and low [both about 3 inches]. There is no damage to the bullet.
You just have to either wait 5 minutes between shots or fire a round to GET THE BARREL HOT so it will group.
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Old April 3, 2002, 10:21 AM   #43
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WARNING* Posted for information purposes only, If you use this load, you are doing so at your own risk.


This load in max in my Hornady book

SMK 53g Match
V V N135 24.5 g
CCI BR4 primers
Norma brass*

*note I have used this with Win brass and achieved same accuracy
* I have also shot same thing with 23.7g of N135 out of Fed brass

Results out of my 700VSSF

best group .116" 5shot@100 yards (group was oval left to right, most likely me, need more practice)

crono showed 3224fps with an extreme spread of 16fps ( SD I don't remember off the top of my head, If you want I will look at my tape and let you know)

Brass is necksized with Redding dies
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