Mauser Broomhandle ID?

dbuffington · October 9, 2014, 07:36 AM

Hi Folks!

A friend dropped of this beautiful Mauser Broomhandle -- Serial Number 288188 -- and shoulder stock/holster and wondered if I could give him any more information about it.

Alas, I'm mainly a Browning guy, not a military guy. So here are some photos ...

By the way, I haven't found a serial number on the holster. (Were they serialized?)

Any information you can add would be welcome. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

Thanks!
Dave

Jim Watson · October 9, 2014, 07:51 AM

Made sometime 1915-1921. Likely early in that period, a wartime commercial.

Somebody recently posted a rough looking Broomhandle with the stock iron numbered to the gun.

dbuffington · October 9, 2014, 08:14 AM

Hi Jim!

I don't see any kind of numbering on the stock iron.

And to answer some other questions …

- The grips have 33 grooves, which doesn't seem to correspond to any of the counts in the Blue Book.

- The barrel is approximately 5 1/2 inches long.

Thanks!
Dave

**4V50 Gary** · October 9, 2014, 08:37 AM

What caliber? It matters. Post-war to circumvent the Versailles Treaty some 9 mm were reworked to 30 Mauser.

From Breathed & Schroeder's book (p124-125), System Mauser, it appears to be a wartime commercial production with six grooves.

I suspect it has a short, wide extractor. Earlier C-96s had a long, narrow extractor. A photo would help.

Barrel markings too as well as a photo of the rear sight.

BTW, I suspect the stock and the harness are Chinese reproductions. They look too "fresh" to me. With respects to serial #s, the wood stocks were (to my knowledge) mated to their guns.

Last, from Charles Pate's book, The Broomhandle Mauser, 1896-1936, pages 90-91, from Serial #280,000 onward the hammers were marked NS (as yours does) and stands for Neue Sicherung (New Safety).

dbuffington · October 9, 2014, 09:46 AM

> What caliber? It matters.

It's not marked, which strikes me as odd.

> I suspect it has a short, wide extractor. Earlier C-96s had a long, narrow extractor.

It's approximately 32 mm long, the main width is about 5 mm.

> A photo would help. Barrel markings too as well as a photo of the rear sight.

I'll try to do that tonight. The rear tangent-style sight is graduated from 50 to 1,000 meters.

Thanks!
Dave

dbuffington · October 9, 2014, 02:17 PM

Here are the barrel markings, starting from the top and working around …

WAFFENFABRIK
MAUSER
OBENDORF A/N
---
288188
---
crown over "U" stamp
---
the letter "M"
a Star of David
the number "8"
and an ampersand "&"
---
crown over a symbol, possibly a stylized "D"
---

NateKirk · October 9, 2014, 03:46 PM

Sexiest pistol ever made.

**4V50 Gary** · October 9, 2014, 05:07 PM

The Waffenfabrik Mauser Oberndorf A/N is pretty standard. It means auf Neckar or "on the Neckar River"

Serial #280,000 started during Nov. 1915. Per Pate, the wartime commercial Mausers were 7.63 mm and could be sold without the stocks.

Military contract models had sights marked for 50 to 500 meters and the commercial model was 50-1000 meters.

It was not until Dec. 1917 that 9mm caliber guns were marked with the red 9. This was in response to confusion/ignorance of the user with the wrong ammunition.

That Star of David intrigues me. I can't find anything about it in my books. Pictures when you have a chance.

James K · October 9, 2014, 05:55 PM

FWIW, I have never seen a C96 with a caliber marking. Even the "Red 9" was marked on the grips, not on the gun itself.

That stock and harness are repros, and that raises a problem. Mausers, Lugers, and other pistols with shoulder stocks are exempt from the NFA ONLY if the stock is original, that is contemporary with the gun. An old C96 with a modern repro stock is still a short-barrel rifle and subject to the NFA. It is, realistically, not something BATFE gets worked up about, but it could be a problem if someone wants to make trouble.

Jim

**4V50 Gary** · October 9, 2014, 07:11 PM

James is right in that calibers weren't marked on C-96s. Hence the need for the Red 9 on the grip. The Hans weren't that clever to figure out marking the caliber.

I'm still trying to find info on that Star of David.

dbuffington · October 9, 2014, 08:01 PM

> That stock and harness are repros, and that raises a problem.

Understood. I will pass that along to the owner.

> I'm still trying to find info on that Star of David.

Alas, the owner picked up the gun this afternoon. So I can't photograph the Star of David, but you can see it on this Broomhandle that just sold on Gunbroker ...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=445560376

James K · October 10, 2014, 01:42 PM

When turnover of personnel forces companies to go beyond the usual run of letters or numbers for inspection markings, they will turn to symbols. Common ones are a triangle, a hexagon, a five pointed star, a six pointed star, an anchor, a cross, a crescent, etc. For a comparison, the same type of symbolism is seen on railroad conductor's ticket punches.

The letters, numbers and symbols used have no meaning other than to identify the inspector involved. An example is the anchor marking seen on some Remington guns, mainly the Model 51 pistol, and the cross on some Ithaca guns. Some folks believe that the anchor indicates Navy issue, or that the cross has some religious significance. Neither is the case.

Jim

**4V50 Gary** · October 10, 2014, 02:01 PM

Thanks James. I found nothing about the six pointed star in my books. I did see pictures of Russian sailors and broomhandles though. There's a reason why the "bolo" or short for bolshevik was called what it was.

James K · October 10, 2014, 08:58 PM

The C96 (and the variant "bolo") was used in a lot of countries, but AFAIK never formally adopted as standard by any of them. The Russians bought a lot of them, which is why they liked the cartridge and chambered their Tokarev pistols for it. Both pistols were in service together for many years, which is why claims that Tokarev ammo will blow up Mausers is a bit silly, as is the claim that Czech-made ammo for the VZ-52 will blow up Tokarevs.

For some strange reason, nations just don't issue ammo that will blow up their own or their allies' guns.

Jim

October 9, 2014, 07:36 AM	#1
dbuffington Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Posts: 157	Mauser Broomhandle ID? Hi Folks! A friend dropped of this beautiful Mauser Broomhandle -- Serial Number 288188 -- and shoulder stock/holster and wondered if I could give him any more information about it. Alas, I'm mainly a Browning guy, not a military guy. So here are some photos ... By the way, I haven't found a serial number on the holster. (Were they serialized?) Any information you can add would be welcome. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Thanks! Dave

October 9, 2014, 08:37 AM	#4
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	What caliber? It matters. Post-war to circumvent the Versailles Treaty some 9 mm were reworked to 30 Mauser. From Breathed & Schroeder's book (p124-125), System Mauser, it appears to be a wartime commercial production with six grooves. I suspect it has a short, wide extractor. Earlier C-96s had a long, narrow extractor. A photo would help. Barrel markings too as well as a photo of the rear sight. BTW, I suspect the stock and the harness are Chinese reproductions. They look too "fresh" to me. With respects to serial #s, the wood stocks were (to my knowledge) mated to their guns. Last, from Charles Pate's book, The Broomhandle Mauser, 1896-1936, pages 90-91, from Serial #280,000 onward the hammers were marked NS (as yours does) and stands for Neue Sicherung (New Safety). __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

October 9, 2014, 03:46 PM	#7
NateKirk Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2013 Location: Detroit Posts: 435	Sexiest pistol ever made. __________________ “Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".” ― --Thomas Jefferson

October 9, 2014, 05:07 PM	#8
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	The Waffenfabrik Mauser Oberndorf A/N is pretty standard. It means auf Neckar or "on the Neckar River" Serial #280,000 started during Nov. 1915. Per Pate, the wartime commercial Mausers were 7.63 mm and could be sold without the stocks. Military contract models had sights marked for 50 to 500 meters and the commercial model was 50-1000 meters. It was not until Dec. 1917 that 9mm caliber guns were marked with the red 9. This was in response to confusion/ignorance of the user with the wrong ammunition. That Star of David intrigues me. I can't find anything about it in my books. Pictures when you have a chance. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

October 9, 2014, 07:11 PM	#10
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	James is right in that calibers weren't marked on C-96s. Hence the need for the Red 9 on the grip. The Hans weren't that clever to figure out marking the caliber. I'm still trying to find info on that Star of David. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

October 9, 2014, 07:51 AM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	Made sometime 1915-1921. Likely early in that period, a wartime commercial. Somebody recently posted a rough looking Broomhandle with the stock iron numbered to the gun.

October 9, 2014, 08:14 AM	#3
dbuffington Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Posts: 157	Hi Jim! I don't see any kind of numbering on the stock iron. And to answer some other questions … - The grips have 33 grooves, which doesn't seem to correspond to any of the counts in the Blue Book. - The barrel is approximately 5 1/2 inches long. Thanks! Dave

October 9, 2014, 09:46 AM	#5
dbuffington Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Posts: 157	> What caliber? It matters. It's not marked, which strikes me as odd. > I suspect it has a short, wide extractor. Earlier C-96s had a long, narrow extractor. It's approximately 32 mm long, the main width is about 5 mm. > A photo would help. Barrel markings too as well as a photo of the rear sight. I'll try to do that tonight. The rear tangent-style sight is graduated from 50 to 1,000 meters. Thanks! Dave

October 9, 2014, 02:17 PM	#6
dbuffington Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Posts: 157	Here are the barrel markings, starting from the top and working around … WAFFENFABRIK MAUSER OBENDORF A/N --- 288188 --- crown over "U" stamp --- the letter "M" a Star of David the number "8" and an ampersand "&" --- crown over a symbol, possibly a stylized "D" ---

October 9, 2014, 05:55 PM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	FWIW, I have never seen a C96 with a caliber marking. Even the "Red 9" was marked on the grips, not on the gun itself. That stock and harness are repros, and that raises a problem. Mausers, Lugers, and other pistols with shoulder stocks are exempt from the NFA ONLY if the stock is original, that is contemporary with the gun. An old C96 with a modern repro stock is still a short-barrel rifle and subject to the NFA. It is, realistically, not something BATFE gets worked up about, but it could be a problem if someone wants to make trouble. Jim

October 9, 2014, 08:01 PM	#11
dbuffington Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Posts: 157	> That stock and harness are repros, and that raises a problem. Understood. I will pass that along to the owner. > I'm still trying to find info on that Star of David. Alas, the owner picked up the gun this afternoon. So I can't photograph the Star of David, but you can see it on this Broomhandle that just sold on Gunbroker ... http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=445560376

October 10, 2014, 01:42 PM	#12
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	When turnover of personnel forces companies to go beyond the usual run of letters or numbers for inspection markings, they will turn to symbols. Common ones are a triangle, a hexagon, a five pointed star, a six pointed star, an anchor, a cross, a crescent, etc. For a comparison, the same type of symbolism is seen on railroad conductor's ticket punches. The letters, numbers and symbols used have no meaning other than to identify the inspector involved. An example is the anchor marking seen on some Remington guns, mainly the Model 51 pistol, and the cross on some Ithaca guns. Some folks believe that the anchor indicates Navy issue, or that the cross has some religious significance. Neither is the case. Jim

October 10, 2014, 02:01 PM	#13
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	Thanks James. I found nothing about the six pointed star in my books. I did see pictures of Russian sailors and broomhandles though. There's a reason why the "bolo" or short for bolshevik was called what it was. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

October 10, 2014, 08:58 PM	#14
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The C96 (and the variant "bolo") was used in a lot of countries, but AFAIK never formally adopted as standard by any of them. The Russians bought a lot of them, which is why they liked the cartridge and chambered their Tokarev pistols for it. Both pistols were in service together for many years, which is why claims that Tokarev ammo will blow up Mausers is a bit silly, as is the claim that Czech-made ammo for the VZ-52 will blow up Tokarevs. For some strange reason, nations just don't issue ammo that will blow up their own or their allies' guns. Jim