C&R Record keeping.

levicomm · August 23, 2008, 11:46 PM

With a C&R, are all purchases of firearms during the duration of the license required to be entered in the bound book, or just the ones purchased using the license?

THANKS

jdc1244 · August 24, 2008, 12:16 AM

Only those classified as C&R are recorded.

dakuda · August 24, 2008, 12:35 AM

...and I would suggest recording every C&R eligible purchase, even if you did not use the C&R to buy it.

I have read people saying that it might not be necessary, but why risk it? Heck, I recorded a purchase from before I had the C&R. I would rather the BATFE say it is not needed rather than have them ask why it is not there if they ever stop by.

Technosavant · August 24, 2008, 02:42 PM

I emailed and asked the ATF myself. I can't really find the email right at the moment, but here's the short answer:

The bound book is a record of all curio and relic transactions while the license is active. Not necessarily a record of what you "used" the license for, but a record of what happened during that time period.

Purchase a C&R firearm in interstate commerce? Log it.
Already own a C&R from before? Don't log it.
Buy a C&R locally on a 4473? Log it.
Sell a C&R firearm? Log it.
Sell one from before? I'm not 100% sure, but I think you'd at least log the disposition (this is the only question mark I have).

Many are hung up on the idea that it's only what you "use" the license for, but there is no provision in the law making a difference between stuff you bought using it and what you bought locally on a 4473. Log what you buy or dispose while the license is active.

levicomm · August 24, 2008, 10:49 PM

Thanks for the info. I was mainly concerned about the non-C&R firearms. I have bought several Cowboy action and other non-C&R firearms.

Swampghost · August 24, 2008, 11:42 PM

You should record every purchase and sale of every weapon just to CYA plus it makes for a good record of what could have been and then then there's the ins. angle in case your goodies get stolen. The latter was the stimulus that got me started.

There's a free picture program called picasa that lets you do all of this easily. Take a pic, enter the info, transfer to disk, hide disk(s) offsite.

Technosavant · August 25, 2008, 10:26 AM

You don't record non-C&R guns. You DO record all C&R gun transactions. I didn't know if I was clear on that.

DRD · August 27, 2008, 08:40 PM

I keep my bound book for my C&Rs. I have another book for my non-C&Rs. The second one isn't required but comes in quite handy.

LionHunter · September 2, 2008, 06:03 PM

If you sell a C&R weapon which you owned prior to becoming licensed, you need to enter it as a sale (disposition). Just note it was owned prior to becoming licensed. Likewise, if you were to send a prior owned C&R firearm out to a gunsmith, it should be logged out (disposition) in the same manner. It would then be logged back in when it is returned from the gunsmith.

Any C&R transaction after you received your License must be entered in the bound book.

Jeffenwulf · September 3, 2008, 01:08 PM

You only need to record the purchase of C&R firearms in the bound book. This applies whether you physically used the 03FFL or not. For instance, if you buy a Bushmaster AR15 and Mosin Nagant 91/30 at your local sporting shop and an Enfield 2A online using your FFL, the Mosin and Enfield would both need to be logged.

I'm recording all of the purchases along with a copy of the bill of sale in a regular 3 ring with plastic sheet inserts. I found a C&R logbook at bookfactory that has the required information and space for a 4"x6" photo. I think I'll be upgrading to that soon.

http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c....ategory.349/.f

It can be found on Amazon.com from this seller as well. There's only one review of it and they like the concept, but said little about the actual book. I'll post something up after I order it.

August 23, 2008, 11:46 PM	#1
levicomm Junior Member Join Date: July 26, 2008 Location: Mid Kansas Posts: 3	C&R Record keeping. With a C&R, are all purchases of firearms during the duration of the license required to be entered in the bound book, or just the ones purchased using the license? THANKS

August 24, 2008, 10:49 PM	#5
levicomm Junior Member Join Date: July 26, 2008 Location: Mid Kansas Posts: 3	C&R Record Keeping Thanks for the info. I was mainly concerned about the non-C&R firearms. I have bought several Cowboy action and other non-C&R firearms.

August 24, 2008, 11:42 PM	#6
Swampghost Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: Florida, east coast Posts: 2,106	You should record every purchase and sale of every weapon just to CYA plus it makes for a good record of what could have been and then then there's the ins. angle in case your goodies get stolen. The latter was the stimulus that got me started. There's a free picture program called picasa that lets you do all of this easily. Take a pic, enter the info, transfer to disk, hide disk(s) offsite. __________________ NRA Patron Member

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August 24, 2008, 12:16 AM	#2
jdc1244 Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 532	Only those classified as C&R are recorded.

August 24, 2008, 12:35 AM	#3
dakuda Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 65	...and I would suggest recording every C&R eligible purchase, even if you did not use the C&R to buy it. I have read people saying that it might not be necessary, but why risk it? Heck, I recorded a purchase from before I had the C&R. I would rather the BATFE say it is not needed rather than have them ask why it is not there if they ever stop by.

August 24, 2008, 02:42 PM	#4
Technosavant Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2007 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 4,040	I emailed and asked the ATF myself. I can't really find the email right at the moment, but here's the short answer: The bound book is a record of all curio and relic transactions while the license is active. Not necessarily a record of what you "used" the license for, but a record of what happened during that time period. Purchase a C&R firearm in interstate commerce? Log it. Already own a C&R from before? Don't log it. Buy a C&R locally on a 4473? Log it. Sell a C&R firearm? Log it. Sell one from before? I'm not 100% sure, but I think you'd at least log the disposition (this is the only question mark I have). Many are hung up on the idea that it's only what you "use" the license for, but there is no provision in the law making a difference between stuff you bought using it and what you bought locally on a 4473. Log what you buy or dispose while the license is active.

August 25, 2008, 10:26 AM	#7
Technosavant Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2007 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 4,040	You don't record non-C&R guns. You DO record all C&R gun transactions. I didn't know if I was clear on that.

August 27, 2008, 08:40 PM	#8
DRD Member Join Date: June 5, 2001 Location: NW of Chicago Posts: 55	I keep my bound book for my C&Rs. I have another book for my non-C&Rs. The second one isn't required but comes in quite handy.

September 2, 2008, 06:03 PM	#9
LionHunter Member Join Date: December 19, 2007 Location: Silicon Valley Posts: 94	If you sell a C&R weapon which you owned prior to becoming licensed, you need to enter it as a sale (disposition). Just note it was owned prior to becoming licensed. Likewise, if you were to send a prior owned C&R firearm out to a gunsmith, it should be logged out (disposition) in the same manner. It would then be logged back in when it is returned from the gunsmith. Any C&R transaction after you received your License must be entered in the bound book.

September 3, 2008, 01:08 PM	#10
Jeffenwulf Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2006 Location: Georgia Posts: 234	You only need to record the purchase of C&R firearms in the bound book. This applies whether you physically used the 03FFL or not. For instance, if you buy a Bushmaster AR15 and Mosin Nagant 91/30 at your local sporting shop and an Enfield 2A online using your FFL, the Mosin and Enfield would both need to be logged. I'm recording all of the purchases along with a copy of the bill of sale in a regular 3 ring with plastic sheet inserts. I found a C&R logbook at bookfactory that has the required information and space for a 4"x6" photo. I think I'll be upgrading to that soon. http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c....ategory.349/.f It can be found on Amazon.com from this seller as well. There's only one review of it and they like the concept, but said little about the actual book. I'll post something up after I order it.