Which O/U Single Trigger all-around Shotgun for hunting?

Para Bellum · March 7, 2009, 03:30 PM

I'm getting into shotgun hunting and clayshooting.
All I have is 35 year old TOZ 34EP with a double trigger.

The Problem is that my hands are small and my index-finger is very short. That's great for precision rifle shooting but a true handycap with double-triggers that are exactly 1 inch apart.

So, I want an o/u all-around shotgun (12/70) that fits me better. What would you PROs recommend?

If you want to "classify me" I shoot Glocks, a 7x57 Mauser 98 converted into a hunting rifle in 1961 and a Steyr AUG. I don't care about looks, just the function counts.

a7mmnut · March 7, 2009, 03:34 PM

Without a doubt, the CZ, preferrably a Woodcock. -7-

ActivShootr · March 7, 2009, 03:38 PM

I also like CZ. They are well made, nice looking, and above all affordable

.

6x6pinz · March 7, 2009, 04:16 PM

for a hunting shotgun it is hard to beat the value of a Spartan SPR310. Not the cleanest finish but for a hunting gun finish is not as important as one on the wall. I use the SPR310's in 12 and 410 with great success. We have had trouble when duck hunting with the Ruger red label o/u. The ruger did not like the high brass, loved low brass and makes an excellent trap gun, and it tended to rust much more around the water than the SPR's.

BigJimP · March 7, 2009, 04:38 PM

Fit is the #1 thing on a shotgun - so it hits where you look. So you have to know what your dimension requirements are for length of pull, drop at comb - if any, drop at heel - and if you don't know, you need to shoot some guns at a pattern board to tell. Shotguns do not come in one size fits all - the dimensions are different.

In general - a universally good fit - can be best obtained by a comb that is parallel to the rib ( not angled like on most pump guns ). To get into a parallel comb gun - look at Browning XS Skeet or the XS Special models - with or without adjustable combs. I'd recommend the adjustable comb models - so the point of impact can be moved up or down / and left or right. New - they are in the $ 2,750 price range / but there are a few used ones around.

The newer Brownings have an adjustable trigger on them so you can move them back a little / or you may have to go to a different recoil pad - to decrease the length of pull a little. With smaller hands - you may or may not like a gun with a "palm swell" on it.

Most of the guns suggested previously - have no adjustment on them / so I wouldn't recommend them, but they are less expensive. Often in shotguns - you will get more adjustability when you spend a little more money - and better steel, more durability, etc. Browning and Beretta in terms of Over Unders give you a lot of gun for your money. These days, under $ 1,500 in terms of Over Unders there isn't much out there on the market worth owning long term.

Any shotgun can be made to fit - cheaply, by adding a stick on pad on the comb to change the angle of the comb for under $ 50. Custom stocks are pretty expensive but you can go that route.

My personal choice for an all around gun - for Skeet, Sporting Clays and hunting - is Browning XS Skeet model ( 12 or 20ga ) with the adjustable comb - and I prefer the 30" barrels. Its a very well balanced gun for quick games like Skeet or Quail hunting / but versatile enough for any type of hunting or clay target games. I'd recommend a 12ga / you can pick a shell at 7/8 oz and make it balistically perform like a 20ga. I've seen a few used around for about $ 2,250 or so in my area.

6x6pinz · March 7, 2009, 06:14 PM

BigJimP has brought up at least one of the most important aspects when looking for a new shotgun or any gun for that matter. Fit should be very high on your list. The Browning XS is a nice shotgun but if memory serves me correctly only available in 2 3/4' chambering. This brings up another point to consider and that would be use. 2 3/4 only shotugns would be all but worthless for hunting duck or geese but very acceptable if you only hunt smaller birds, dove, quail, pheasant ... Price range would be another very important consideration.

oneounceload · March 7, 2009, 07:47 PM

Try to rent some of the better guns - Berettas, Brownings, (both Jap and Belgian), Cesar Guerini, and even SKB....They are all very good, but they "feel" differently.......

Maromero · March 7, 2009, 08:07 PM

I suggest you try a Beretta 687 Silver Pigeon Grade 20g. That's my to go shotgun for hunting. It does not mean she will be to your liking but I find it lovely to dance with her.

olddrum1 · March 8, 2009, 02:22 AM

I think that you are seeing a lot of different guns being offered up here. Sometimes it helps to give a dollar amount on the investment that you want to make.

.300 Weatherby Mag · March 8, 2009, 03:55 AM

Need a dollar amount...

Rmac58 · March 8, 2009, 06:17 AM

If you get a chance, try a Baikal, well made, lower cost.

zippy13 · March 8, 2009, 10:54 AM

Perhaps you can be a little more specific: What kind of budget do you have in mind? Do you want a new gun or one that has most of the misses already shot out of it? Will your hunting be humping your gun all day after upland birds, or in the comfort of a duck blind -- will you hunt deer in a state that requires a shotgun? Will the gun be used regularly for recreational clay shooting or just as a tune-up before hunting season? Like rifles and handguns, shotguns are specialized for their intended use -- your wanting an O/U narrows the field.

Para Bellum · March 8, 2009, 01:12 PM

Thanks so far, Folks!

Quote:

Need a dollar amount...

Doesn't really matter. I can affort all shotguns I know. Still, I don't care about looks and don't want to spend more than the functionality needs. In handguns (that field I understand), that means: Glock.

.300 Weatherby Mag · March 8, 2009, 03:28 PM

Perazzi MX12
Beretta 687 EELL
Weatherby Athena D'Italia Grade V

BigJimP · March 8, 2009, 05:23 PM

Forget a Beretta or Brownings - if you're looking for a Glock equivalent ...

Para Bellum · March 9, 2009, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Forget a Beretta or Brownings - if you're looking for a Glock equivalent ...

...so what should I look for then?

BigJimP · March 9, 2009, 11:36 AM

I was being sarcastic - sorry ...( I'm not a Glock fan ..).

In terms of semi-auto handguns, I would compare most Berettas or Brownings to an upper grade production handgun from Kimber. A Kimber isn't a high level custom made or custom fit gun - like an Ed Brown, or Wilson Combat 1911 - but Kimber makes a decent production gun for the money at around $ 1,500.

Beretta and Browning give you a lot of gun for the money - durable, strong, decent triggers and under $3,000. Higher end production shotguns would be Perazzi or Blazer in my view ( mostly at $ 7500 - $10,000 ). High end custom shotguns are Kolar, Krieghoff at $ $20,000 plus .

A Browning XS Skeet or XS Special are very good guns for the money / with lots of adjustability.

Para Bellum · March 9, 2009, 04:30 PM

I understand.
The Glock-Thing is because I carry 24/7. Otherwise I'd own STIs or Kimbers.

So, since I don't intend to carry an o/u shotgun inside the waistband, I think we can agree on a quality standard in this section of the forum.

I was at an expert's shop today and "tested" a lot of shotguns. The one that felt best was a Browning B525 Sporter:

It came into position naturally, felt very good, handles steel shot, is a magnum and they give 10yrs warranty. I assume, I can't go wrong with that one, could I?

Thanks a lot, Folks!

BigJimP · March 9, 2009, 04:38 PM

The 525 is a nice looking gun - the only issue with it is a lack of adjustbiltiy for point of impact. But there is nothing wrong mechanically with the 525 series / or any of the Browning Citori lineup of guns.

The 525 - and the newer 625 series - all have a lot of drop at the comb.

That steep angle on the comb ( at least on me ) caused the meat in my face to push up against my cheek bone / causing a lot of abuse from recoil. Ideally a shotgun should move rearward - and recoil under that cheek bone .... so for me, the 525 had way too much drop. I thought it was perfect in the store / but it was not a good gun for me. I sold the 525 a few years ago and went with the XS Skeet models ( in 12, 20, 28ga and .410 ) as my primary guns. Like I said before - the parallel comb guns - allow adjustability / and for me, they recoil and slide under my cheek bone.

The other issue on the 525 is the oil finish / if you shoot in a lot of rain - the finish doesn't keep the elements out too well - and the finish will get "muddy". It can be refinished - with a more traditional Browning verathate finish - and its a good winter project.

I don't carry 24/7 but my 1911 of choice is Wilson Combat - CQB or Protector in 5" - and you're right, they are a little heavy - but I like the CQB on my hip when I do carry.

Para Bellum · March 10, 2009, 07:54 AM

...I got it wrong yesterday. The gun I liked the most in the shot is a 425 Citori. Does your critique of the 525 also apply to the 425?

Thanks!

BigJimP · March 10, 2009, 10:33 AM

There is nothing wrong mechanically in the 325, 425, 525 or 625 series.

I don't remember the amount of drop the 325 had vs the 425, etc - but as I recall they were all similar / and since they all have angled, or field combs - then even with an adj comb - you can't adjust the point of impact.

An adjustable comb on a parallel comb gun - lets you adjust the point of impact up or down. On an angled, or field comb, an adjustable comb doesn't change the angle relative to the rib - so to me, it has no purpose on an angled, or field comb stocked gun. On a parallel comb gun - if you shoot in a T shirt in the summer / or a heavy coat in the winter - even though that causes your face to move up or back on the comb maybe 3/4" or so - since it is parallel to the rib - then your sight picture does not change. So my sight picture on my gun stays the same year round.

On an angled, or field comb, gun - as you move up or back on the comb - and you level out the rib - it causes the gun's point of impact to move significantly up or down by seasons. As a result, with an angled comb gun - you have to get a "shooting outfit" that you can use in all seasons - so your head contacts the comb at exactly the right spot - so the gun hits where you look. Remember a 1/2" up or down at the end of the muzzle - might result in a shot being 3 or 4 feet high or low - at 35 yards - not what you want...

In my experience, parallel comb guns - will fit most everybody - and they're adjustable. Angled or field combs - are not.

Each of the series was discontinued - as the sucessor came out. I bought my 525 - when they were pretty new - in about 1998 ?? I think the 325 came out in early 90's , the 425 I think only lasted about 3 years - maybe 1994-1997. The 625 has been out about 2 years now.

If you're only going to buy one shotgun - I'd seriously recommend a gun with a parallel comb. As a pure Trap gun - I like the Browning XT with 32" barrels - at about 10 lbs. For an overall gun - hunting, sporting clays or skeet - I like the Browning XS Skeet with 30" barrels ( they also make a 28" ) - and that's personal preference. I find the XS Skeet model a very nimble gun - swings quickly - in a 12ga its about 8 1/2 lbs - so its quick, but not whippy like a 7 1/2 lb gun would be to me ( but I'm 6' 5" and 290 lbs ) so you should look at whatever fits you and what feels good with the balance point between your hands, etc. Trap is a game with less barrel movement - than hunting, sporting clays or skeet - so a 10lb gun is a little too clumsy to me in a faster game.

I am seeing a few of the XS Skeet used. There is also the XS Special - marketed by Browning as a sporting clays gun / but they tend to put plain wood on them / and a satin finish - not as attractive a gun as the XS Skeet in my opinion. Any big Browning dealer should have the XS Skeet in stock in 12 or 20ga with or without the adj comb option.

BigJimP · March 10, 2009, 10:40 AM

Looking at the Browning web site - Citori lineup - they have all the models I'm suggesting / it might help before you go to a shop and see what suits you best.

A lot of gun shops - don't really have a good command of the different target guns from Browning - especially if they don't stock all the models. All shops sell a lot of angled or field comb guns - and most sales counter guys tend to think that is all there is / and a lot of the customers focus on the look of the wood and cost vs adjustability. They don't sell too many target guns in the $2,500 - $3,000 price range.

But if you have a relationship with a shop where some of the sales folks are clay target shooters - they should be able to walk you thru all of these models and options.

TheDingy · March 10, 2009, 03:37 PM

I know a lot of people that shot a lot of different O/U's for something that is going to be a only gun I would do a good one and stay away from these cheap ones that I have seen recommended here. Don't look at price, but quality.

I would shortlist these.

Beretta - Any of the 68x series guns
Krieghoff - Any of their O/U's
Perazzi - Any of their O/U's

Browning while some may say they are good in a 12ga my friends have had nothing but trouble as they went up in rounds fired.

Also I would buy a 12ga, get a 20ga set of barrels or a set of Briley tubes in 20ga. Also get a lot of choke tubes for both 12ga and 20ga.

Lastly I would get the gun properly fitted to me by a professional this is the biggest step that I would do.

Maromero · March 10, 2009, 03:41 PM

Krieghoff - Any of their O/U's
Perazzi - Any of their O/U's

Either one of these two. Beretta is one notch below in this category.

BigJimP · March 10, 2009, 06:53 PM

I know a lot of guys that have 50,000 + shells thru Brownings with no trouble - regardless of gague / especially the XS Skeet or XT models - and while I don't really keep track - my XS Skeet models in 12, 20 are easily at 50,000 with no problems.

Personally, I think Beretta is also a decent gun - a little lighter in general - and maybe a little weaker in terms of the barrel to receiver connection. But I consider Beretta and Browning virtually equivalent in terms on a long term gun.

All gun mfg's have some issues from time to time - maybe I've been lucky on my Brownings / maybe I take better care of my guns than some ....

March 9, 2009, 04:30 PM	#18
Para Bellum Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: right there Posts: 1,882	Sarcasm I understand. The Glock-Thing is because I carry 24/7. Otherwise I'd own STIs or Kimbers. So, since I don't intend to carry an o/u shotgun inside the waistband, I think we can agree on a quality standard in this section of the forum. I was at an expert's shop today and "tested" a lot of shotguns. The one that felt best was a Browning B525 Sporter: It came into position naturally, felt very good, handles steel shot, is a magnum and they give 10yrs warranty. I assume, I can't go wrong with that one, could I? Thanks a lot, Folks! __________________ Si vis pacem - para bellum If you want peace - prepare for war

March 10, 2009, 07:54 AM	#20
Para Bellum Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: right there Posts: 1,882	Sorry, it's a 425 Citori ...I got it wrong yesterday. The gun I liked the most in the shot is a 425 Citori. Does your critique of the 525 also apply to the 425? Thanks! __________________ Si vis pacem - para bellum If you want peace - prepare for war

March 7, 2009, 03:30 PM	#1
Para Bellum Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: right there Posts: 1,882	Which O/U Single Trigger all-around Shotgun for hunting? I'm getting into shotgun hunting and clayshooting. All I have is 35 year old TOZ 34EP with a double trigger. The Problem is that my hands are small and my index-finger is very short. That's great for precision rifle shooting but a true handycap with double-triggers that are exactly 1 inch apart. So, I want an o/u all-around shotgun (12/70) that fits me better. What would you PROs recommend? If you want to "classify me" I shoot Glocks, a 7x57 Mauser 98 converted into a hunting rifle in 1961 and a Steyr AUG. I don't care about looks, just the function counts. __________________ Si vis pacem - para bellum If you want peace - prepare for war

March 7, 2009, 03:34 PM	#2
a7mmnut Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2009 Location: NC Foothills Posts: 1,150	Without a doubt, the CZ, preferrably a Woodcock. -7-

March 7, 2009, 03:38 PM	#3
ActivShootr Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2007 Posts: 1,040	I also like CZ. They are well made, nice looking, and above all affordable .

March 7, 2009, 04:16 PM	#4
6x6pinz Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 152	for a hunting shotgun it is hard to beat the value of a Spartan SPR310. Not the cleanest finish but for a hunting gun finish is not as important as one on the wall. I use the SPR310's in 12 and 410 with great success. We have had trouble when duck hunting with the Ruger red label o/u. The ruger did not like the high brass, loved low brass and makes an excellent trap gun, and it tended to rust much more around the water than the SPR's.

March 7, 2009, 04:38 PM	#5
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Fit is the #1 thing on a shotgun - so it hits where you look. So you have to know what your dimension requirements are for length of pull, drop at comb - if any, drop at heel - and if you don't know, you need to shoot some guns at a pattern board to tell. Shotguns do not come in one size fits all - the dimensions are different. In general - a universally good fit - can be best obtained by a comb that is parallel to the rib ( not angled like on most pump guns ). To get into a parallel comb gun - look at Browning XS Skeet or the XS Special models - with or without adjustable combs. I'd recommend the adjustable comb models - so the point of impact can be moved up or down / and left or right. New - they are in the $ 2,750 price range / but there are a few used ones around. The newer Brownings have an adjustable trigger on them so you can move them back a little / or you may have to go to a different recoil pad - to decrease the length of pull a little. With smaller hands - you may or may not like a gun with a "palm swell" on it. Most of the guns suggested previously - have no adjustment on them / so I wouldn't recommend them, but they are less expensive. Often in shotguns - you will get more adjustability when you spend a little more money - and better steel, more durability, etc. Browning and Beretta in terms of Over Unders give you a lot of gun for your money. These days, under $ 1,500 in terms of Over Unders there isn't much out there on the market worth owning long term. Any shotgun can be made to fit - cheaply, by adding a stick on pad on the comb to change the angle of the comb for under $ 50. Custom stocks are pretty expensive but you can go that route. My personal choice for an all around gun - for Skeet, Sporting Clays and hunting - is Browning XS Skeet model ( 12 or 20ga ) with the adjustable comb - and I prefer the 30" barrels. Its a very well balanced gun for quick games like Skeet or Quail hunting / but versatile enough for any type of hunting or clay target games. I'd recommend a 12ga / you can pick a shell at 7/8 oz and make it balistically perform like a 20ga. I've seen a few used around for about $ 2,250 or so in my area.

March 7, 2009, 06:14 PM	#6
6x6pinz Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 152	BigJimP has brought up at least one of the most important aspects when looking for a new shotgun or any gun for that matter. Fit should be very high on your list. The Browning XS is a nice shotgun but if memory serves me correctly only available in 2 3/4' chambering. This brings up another point to consider and that would be use. 2 3/4 only shotugns would be all but worthless for hunting duck or geese but very acceptable if you only hunt smaller birds, dove, quail, pheasant ... Price range would be another very important consideration.

March 7, 2009, 07:47 PM	#7
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Try to rent some of the better guns - Berettas, Brownings, (both Jap and Belgian), Cesar Guerini, and even SKB....They are all very good, but they "feel" differently.......

March 7, 2009, 08:07 PM	#8
Maromero Junior member Join Date: January 21, 2009 Location: Outside the continental U Posts: 752	I suggest you try a Beretta 687 Silver Pigeon Grade 20g. That's my to go shotgun for hunting. It does not mean she will be to your liking but I find it lovely to dance with her.

March 8, 2009, 02:22 AM	#9
olddrum1 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Mid Missouri Posts: 807	I think that you are seeing a lot of different guns being offered up here. Sometimes it helps to give a dollar amount on the investment that you want to make.

March 8, 2009, 03:55 AM	#10
.300 Weatherby Mag Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2008 Posts: 1,777	Need a dollar amount...

March 8, 2009, 06:17 AM	#11
Rmac58 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2008 Location: central Va Posts: 182	If you get a chance, try a Baikal, well made, lower cost.

March 8, 2009, 10:54 AM	#12
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Perhaps you can be a little more specific: What kind of budget do you have in mind? Do you want a new gun or one that has most of the misses already shot out of it? Will your hunting be humping your gun all day after upland birds, or in the comfort of a duck blind -- will you hunt deer in a state that requires a shotgun? Will the gun be used regularly for recreational clay shooting or just as a tune-up before hunting season? Like rifles and handguns, shotguns are specialized for their intended use -- your wanting an O/U narrows the field.

March 8, 2009, 03:28 PM	#14
.300 Weatherby Mag Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2008 Posts: 1,777	Perazzi MX12 Beretta 687 EELL Weatherby Athena D'Italia Grade V

March 8, 2009, 05:23 PM	#15
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Forget a Beretta or Brownings - if you're looking for a Glock equivalent ...

March 9, 2009, 11:36 AM	#17
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I was being sarcastic - sorry ...( I'm not a Glock fan ..). In terms of semi-auto handguns, I would compare most Berettas or Brownings to an upper grade production handgun from Kimber. A Kimber isn't a high level custom made or custom fit gun - like an Ed Brown, or Wilson Combat 1911 - but Kimber makes a decent production gun for the money at around $ 1,500. Beretta and Browning give you a lot of gun for the money - durable, strong, decent triggers and under $3,000. Higher end production shotguns would be Perazzi or Blazer in my view ( mostly at $ 7500 - $10,000 ). High end custom shotguns are Kolar, Krieghoff at $ $20,000 plus . A Browning XS Skeet or XS Special are very good guns for the money / with lots of adjustability.

March 9, 2009, 04:38 PM	#19
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	The 525 is a nice looking gun - the only issue with it is a lack of adjustbiltiy for point of impact. But there is nothing wrong mechanically with the 525 series / or any of the Browning Citori lineup of guns. The 525 - and the newer 625 series - all have a lot of drop at the comb. That steep angle on the comb ( at least on me ) caused the meat in my face to push up against my cheek bone / causing a lot of abuse from recoil. Ideally a shotgun should move rearward - and recoil under that cheek bone .... so for me, the 525 had way too much drop. I thought it was perfect in the store / but it was not a good gun for me. I sold the 525 a few years ago and went with the XS Skeet models ( in 12, 20, 28ga and .410 ) as my primary guns. Like I said before - the parallel comb guns - allow adjustability / and for me, they recoil and slide under my cheek bone. The other issue on the 525 is the oil finish / if you shoot in a lot of rain - the finish doesn't keep the elements out too well - and the finish will get "muddy". It can be refinished - with a more traditional Browning verathate finish - and its a good winter project. I don't carry 24/7 but my 1911 of choice is Wilson Combat - CQB or Protector in 5" - and you're right, they are a little heavy - but I like the CQB on my hip when I do carry.

March 10, 2009, 10:33 AM	#21
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	There is nothing wrong mechanically in the 325, 425, 525 or 625 series. I don't remember the amount of drop the 325 had vs the 425, etc - but as I recall they were all similar / and since they all have angled, or field combs - then even with an adj comb - you can't adjust the point of impact. An adjustable comb on a parallel comb gun - lets you adjust the point of impact up or down. On an angled, or field comb, an adjustable comb doesn't change the angle relative to the rib - so to me, it has no purpose on an angled, or field comb stocked gun. On a parallel comb gun - if you shoot in a T shirt in the summer / or a heavy coat in the winter - even though that causes your face to move up or back on the comb maybe 3/4" or so - since it is parallel to the rib - then your sight picture does not change. So my sight picture on my gun stays the same year round. On an angled, or field comb, gun - as you move up or back on the comb - and you level out the rib - it causes the gun's point of impact to move significantly up or down by seasons. As a result, with an angled comb gun - you have to get a "shooting outfit" that you can use in all seasons - so your head contacts the comb at exactly the right spot - so the gun hits where you look. Remember a 1/2" up or down at the end of the muzzle - might result in a shot being 3 or 4 feet high or low - at 35 yards - not what you want... In my experience, parallel comb guns - will fit most everybody - and they're adjustable. Angled or field combs - are not. Each of the series was discontinued - as the sucessor came out. I bought my 525 - when they were pretty new - in about 1998 ?? I think the 325 came out in early 90's , the 425 I think only lasted about 3 years - maybe 1994-1997. The 625 has been out about 2 years now. If you're only going to buy one shotgun - I'd seriously recommend a gun with a parallel comb. As a pure Trap gun - I like the Browning XT with 32" barrels - at about 10 lbs. For an overall gun - hunting, sporting clays or skeet - I like the Browning XS Skeet with 30" barrels ( they also make a 28" ) - and that's personal preference. I find the XS Skeet model a very nimble gun - swings quickly - in a 12ga its about 8 1/2 lbs - so its quick, but not whippy like a 7 1/2 lb gun would be to me ( but I'm 6' 5" and 290 lbs ) so you should look at whatever fits you and what feels good with the balance point between your hands, etc. Trap is a game with less barrel movement - than hunting, sporting clays or skeet - so a 10lb gun is a little too clumsy to me in a faster game. I am seeing a few of the XS Skeet used. There is also the XS Special - marketed by Browning as a sporting clays gun / but they tend to put plain wood on them / and a satin finish - not as attractive a gun as the XS Skeet in my opinion. Any big Browning dealer should have the XS Skeet in stock in 12 or 20ga with or without the adj comb option.

March 10, 2009, 10:40 AM	#22
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Looking at the Browning web site - Citori lineup - they have all the models I'm suggesting / it might help before you go to a shop and see what suits you best. A lot of gun shops - don't really have a good command of the different target guns from Browning - especially if they don't stock all the models. All shops sell a lot of angled or field comb guns - and most sales counter guys tend to think that is all there is / and a lot of the customers focus on the look of the wood and cost vs adjustability. They don't sell too many target guns in the $2,500 - $3,000 price range. But if you have a relationship with a shop where some of the sales folks are clay target shooters - they should be able to walk you thru all of these models and options.

March 10, 2009, 03:37 PM	#23
TheDingy Junior Member Join Date: August 2, 2007 Posts: 11	I know a lot of people that shot a lot of different O/U's for something that is going to be a only gun I would do a good one and stay away from these cheap ones that I have seen recommended here. Don't look at price, but quality. I would shortlist these. Beretta - Any of the 68x series guns Krieghoff - Any of their O/U's Perazzi - Any of their O/U's Browning while some may say they are good in a 12ga my friends have had nothing but trouble as they went up in rounds fired. Also I would buy a 12ga, get a 20ga set of barrels or a set of Briley tubes in 20ga. Also get a lot of choke tubes for both 12ga and 20ga. Lastly I would get the gun properly fitted to me by a professional this is the biggest step that I would do.

March 10, 2009, 03:41 PM	#24
Maromero Junior member Join Date: January 21, 2009 Location: Outside the continental U Posts: 752	Krieghoff - Any of their O/U's Perazzi - Any of their O/U's Either one of these two. Beretta is one notch below in this category.

March 10, 2009, 06:53 PM	#25
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I know a lot of guys that have 50,000 + shells thru Brownings with no trouble - regardless of gague / especially the XS Skeet or XT models - and while I don't really keep track - my XS Skeet models in 12, 20 are easily at 50,000 with no problems. Personally, I think Beretta is also a decent gun - a little lighter in general - and maybe a little weaker in terms of the barrel to receiver connection. But I consider Beretta and Browning virtually equivalent in terms on a long term gun. All gun mfg's have some issues from time to time - maybe I've been lucky on my Brownings / maybe I take better care of my guns than some ....