Sizing and Lubing (Newbie question)

webby4x4 · April 7, 2009, 08:26 PM

My father recently gave me all of his reloading equipment (what a nice guy!). I've been casting and reloading .45 ACP, 30/06 and so forth with no problems.

I seem to be seeing that some people do and some people do not run their bullets through a resize die, but they use "liquid alox" instead.

The only method I know of for reloading is what my father has shown me, which is cast, resize/lube, load (simplified steps). So my question is this... I'm now casting and ready to reload 9mm ammo, so if the cast bullet measures out to .356 without resizing, should I bother running it through a resize die at all?

If I don't have to do that step, how would I go about lubing the bullet to prevent leading?

I'm only into about month 2 of reloading, so the only lube-process I'm familiar with is the cylinder lube that gets loaded into my Lyman (old school) resize and lube press.

Can someone shed some light on the whole "liquid alox" thing and/or if the resize step is needed if cast bullets measure out correctly?

Thanks,
Rick

wncchester · April 8, 2009, 12:13 PM

Okay. If the bullets don't need sizing, then running them through a sizer will do nothing. Get a bottle of Lee Alox lube and follow the directions. Works fine.

webby4x4 · April 9, 2009, 12:28 PM

Thanks Wncchester, I appreciate the information.

Here's the reason I asked... (looking for a sanity check)

I bought the Lee 6-gang 9mm bullet mold, a Lyman .356 sizing/lube die, and a 3-die RCBS set for 9 mm.

When I cast my 9 mm bullets, I would run them through the Lyman .356 sizing/lube die, then load up the ammo. I would resize, prime, flare the neck, powder and then seat/crimp the bullet into the brass. The cast bullets would not crimp down tight enough, even if I adjusted the die WAAAY down.

If I used store-bought FMJ bullets, they would seat and crimp perfectly, each time.

I went through the process of measuring everything with calipers (molds, lube/size die, cast bullets, FMJ bullets, etc.). I then typed if all up and sent everything back to Lyman, thinking that the lube/resize die was too small (my measurements indicated they were, their measurements indicated that it was withiin tolerances) and subsequently sent evertyhing back to me.

So now, I have a whole pile of cast 9mm bullets that I can't do anything with, unless I skip the resizing portion and lube them without resizing.

Again, I'm VERY new to this, and the only method of lubing that I know of, is to do this with my Lyman resize / lube press, which makes the cast bullets too small.

So... if my cast bullets measure .3565", I can make two assumptions:
1) I don't need to resize, because this is within tolerances for a 9mm pistol
2) I still need to lube the bullets

This leaves me with two primary questions:
1) Are my assumptions correct?
2) How do I lube the bullets without using my resize/lube die?

Sorry for the long post, but I'm looking for some guidance and thoughts.

Rick

Slamfire · April 9, 2009, 01:36 PM

Quote:

The only method I know of for reloading is what my father has shown me, which is cast, resize/lube, load (simplified steps). So my question is this... I'm now casting and ready to reload 9mm ammo, so if the cast bullet measures out to .356 without resizing, should I bother running it through a resize die at all?

My cast rifle bullet measured exactly the size of my sizing die. I still ran them through the die to lubricate them.

I do believe that the less sizing the better for bullets.

rwilson452 · April 9, 2009, 01:44 PM

The Liquid ALOX is a liquid. Take a disposable container like a used soft butter container squirt the ALOX in the container. dump some bullets in the container and shake them around until fully coated. I then use a cookie sheet and line it with waxed paper and dump the bullets out on it and let them dry. they will still be a little sticky. I cut the Lee's liquid ALOX 50/50 with mineral spirits. You can also then coat the bullets with powdered mica if you don't like the feel. if you want to get even more fancy you can stand all the bullets on end as the dry.

webby4x4 · April 9, 2009, 03:06 PM

Great information, thanks a lot guys.

One last question... the casting block that I have is the one where the bullet only has one large grove in it, not the 2 or 3 small grooves.

Will the liquix Alox still fill that are effectively?

Thanks again,
Rick

rwilson452 · April 9, 2009, 07:47 PM

As the ALOX coats the entire bullet it doesn't need to fill the groove. no it will not.
I suspect that one groove is for the crimp. is one side angled differently?

Quote:

One last question... the casting block that I have is the one where the bullet only has one large grove in it, not the 2 or 3 small grooves.

Will the liquix Alox still fill that are effectively?

Thanks again,
Rick

CrustyFN · April 9, 2009, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Okay. If the bullets don't need sizing, then running them through a sizer will do nothing.

Well actually it will still lube the bullets. I don't have any experience with the Alox but have heard from people that it makes a mess in the seating die. I figure I have to spend time running them through the lube/sizer or coating them with alox. Didn't seem to be better one way or the other to me so I went with a Lyman lube/sizer. When I hit the lottery I'm going to buy a Star.

Rusty

MrSardonicus · April 9, 2009, 08:13 PM

I use lee liquid alox and I love it. I also use lee's sizing dies because they size the bullets nose first and with a minimum of distortion. Don't worry if the alox does not fill out the grooves, you only need a thin coat over the entire bullet. I see a significant reduction in lead fouling when I use the alox as well...so it is all I use now.

webby4x4 · April 9, 2009, 09:41 PM

Thanks everyone, this has been really informative!

It's pretty great to be able to tap into so many experienced people's minds.

Regards,
Rick

webby4x4 · April 9, 2009, 09:48 PM

Quote:

As the ALOX coats the entire bullet it doesn't need to fill the groove. no it will not.
I suspect that one groove is for the crimp. is one side angled differently?

No... here is the bullet:

The actual mold is the Lee, 6-gang #90457, which can be seen here:
http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/cata.../bullmol2.html

Rick

rwilson452 · April 9, 2009, 10:08 PM

nope not a crimp groove. But the ALOX will still work. the TL series molds are specifically made for ALOX tumble lube.

My Favorite bullet is the TL452-200-SWC. I just lube and load. really accurate out of my Colt 1991A1. I'm thinking of getting the TL452-200-2R for my XD as it doesn't like SWC bullets.

webby4x4 · April 9, 2009, 10:16 PM

Thanks, RWilson.

I'm using the 452-190-SWC for my 1911 Colt Govt and like it a lot. I only have a 2-cavity mold, and will ask my father for a 6-cavity Lee mold for my birthday (I'm almost 40... is it wrong to ask for gifts at this age?)

Thanks again,
Rick

April 7, 2009, 08:26 PM	#1
webby4x4 Member Join Date: April 7, 2009 Location: North Dallas, TX Posts: 92	Sizing and Lubing (Newbie question) My father recently gave me all of his reloading equipment (what a nice guy!). I've been casting and reloading .45 ACP, 30/06 and so forth with no problems. I seem to be seeing that some people do and some people do not run their bullets through a resize die, but they use "liquid alox" instead. The only method I know of for reloading is what my father has shown me, which is cast, resize/lube, load (simplified steps). So my question is this... I'm now casting and ready to reload 9mm ammo, so if the cast bullet measures out to .356 without resizing, should I bother running it through a resize die at all? If I don't have to do that step, how would I go about lubing the bullet to prevent leading? I'm only into about month 2 of reloading, so the only lube-process I'm familiar with is the cylinder lube that gets loaded into my Lyman (old school) resize and lube press. Can someone shed some light on the whole "liquid alox" thing and/or if the resize step is needed if cast bullets measure out correctly? Thanks, Rick

April 9, 2009, 12:28 PM	#3
webby4x4 Member Join Date: April 7, 2009 Location: North Dallas, TX Posts: 92	Thanks Wncchester, I appreciate the information. Here's the reason I asked... (looking for a sanity check) I bought the Lee 6-gang 9mm bullet mold, a Lyman .356 sizing/lube die, and a 3-die RCBS set for 9 mm. When I cast my 9 mm bullets, I would run them through the Lyman .356 sizing/lube die, then load up the ammo. I would resize, prime, flare the neck, powder and then seat/crimp the bullet into the brass. The cast bullets would not crimp down tight enough, even if I adjusted the die WAAAY down. If I used store-bought FMJ bullets, they would seat and crimp perfectly, each time. I went through the process of measuring everything with calipers (molds, lube/size die, cast bullets, FMJ bullets, etc.). I then typed if all up and sent everything back to Lyman, thinking that the lube/resize die was too small (my measurements indicated they were, their measurements indicated that it was withiin tolerances) and subsequently sent evertyhing back to me. So now, I have a whole pile of cast 9mm bullets that I can't do anything with, unless I skip the resizing portion and lube them without resizing. Again, I'm VERY new to this, and the only method of lubing that I know of, is to do this with my Lyman resize / lube press, which makes the cast bullets too small. So... if my cast bullets measure .3565", I can make two assumptions: 1) I don't need to resize, because this is within tolerances for a 9mm pistol 2) I still need to lube the bullets This leaves me with two primary questions: 1) Are my assumptions correct? 2) How do I lube the bullets without using my resize/lube die? Sorry for the long post, but I'm looking for some guidance and thoughts. Rick Last edited by webby4x4; April 9, 2009 at 12:38 PM.

April 9, 2009, 01:44 PM	#5
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	The Liquid ALOX is a liquid. Take a disposable container like a used soft butter container squirt the ALOX in the container. dump some bullets in the container and shake them around until fully coated. I then use a cookie sheet and line it with waxed paper and dump the bullets out on it and let them dry. they will still be a little sticky. I cut the Lee's liquid ALOX 50/50 with mineral spirits. You can also then coat the bullets with powdered mica if you don't like the feel. if you want to get even more fancy you can stand all the bullets on end as the dry. __________________ USNRET '61-'81

April 9, 2009, 10:08 PM	#12
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	nope not a crimp groove. But the ALOX will still work. the TL series molds are specifically made for ALOX tumble lube. My Favorite bullet is the TL452-200-SWC. I just lube and load. really accurate out of my Colt 1991A1. I'm thinking of getting the TL452-200-2R for my XD as it doesn't like SWC bullets. __________________ USNRET '61-'81

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April 8, 2009, 12:13 PM	#2
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	Okay. If the bullets don't need sizing, then running them through a sizer will do nothing. Get a bottle of Lee Alox lube and follow the directions. Works fine.

April 9, 2009, 03:06 PM	#6
webby4x4 Member Join Date: April 7, 2009 Location: North Dallas, TX Posts: 92	Great information, thanks a lot guys. One last question... the casting block that I have is the one where the bullet only has one large grove in it, not the 2 or 3 small grooves. Will the liquix Alox still fill that are effectively? Thanks again, Rick

April 9, 2009, 08:13 PM	#9
MrSardonicus Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2009 Location: Cody, WY Posts: 101	I use lee liquid alox and I love it. I also use lee's sizing dies because they size the bullets nose first and with a minimum of distortion. Don't worry if the alox does not fill out the grooves, you only need a thin coat over the entire bullet. I see a significant reduction in lead fouling when I use the alox as well...so it is all I use now. __________________ "I like my town with a little drop of poison. No body knows,...they're all lining up to go insane. I'm all alone. I've smoked my friends down to the filter; but I feel much cleaner after it rains..." Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still.

April 9, 2009, 09:41 PM	#10
webby4x4 Member Join Date: April 7, 2009 Location: North Dallas, TX Posts: 92	Thanks everyone, this has been really informative! It's pretty great to be able to tap into so many experienced people's minds. Regards, Rick

April 9, 2009, 10:16 PM	#13
webby4x4 Member Join Date: April 7, 2009 Location: North Dallas, TX Posts: 92	Thanks, RWilson. I'm using the 452-190-SWC for my 1911 Colt Govt and like it a lot. I only have a 2-cavity mold, and will ask my father for a 6-cavity Lee mold for my birthday (I'm almost 40... is it wrong to ask for gifts at this age?) Thanks again, Rick