Dragoon Loads

mec · December 13, 2005, 03:38 PM

The other day, we pretty well established that Dragoons are neat.

Here are some loads I've gathered over time. The H777 load, I clocked today as well as the loads below using Pyrodex Rifle/Shotgun. Note the variabity in performance. Sometimes the difference between a .457 ball and a .454 is significant-(other times, not). I had two cans of Pyrodex RS- one new and one at least ten years old that had been almost used up. I noted the same loss of velocity once when I compaired 25 year old Pyrodex P with a new can of the stuff. Interstingly enough, the old Pyrodex P hadden't lost any more velocity (relatively) than the old but much newer Pyrodex RS. Both retain the usual low extreme spreads.

I was careful to seat ball over the H777 just deep enough to dent the top of the powder column without compressing it very much. This seems to be the key in getting consistent velocities with that stuff- though I'm still far short of really understanding it.

Steve499 · December 13, 2005, 06:23 PM

Thanks for the info, mec. If we ever duel, I'll choose swords!

Steve

Remington kid · December 13, 2005, 06:29 PM

Mec, Great info! Good shooten too. Now I have a question for you. From the first time I ever touched a muzzle loader (I was about 12) I have used nothing but Goex. It works so I just never changed and found that I could always work up a good load with it no matter what I was sighting in, rifle, shotgun, musket, pistol and revolver. Never tried any of the "imposter powders" but that is mainly due to the price and I'm really a cheap skate!

At the same time I keep hearing and reading good things about the old Swiss black powder and the velosity and accuracy alway's seems to be really high with Swiss.In fact it always seems real close to H777. Have you found that to be true in your test over the years and is Swiss worth giving a try in say a 1861 .36 or the Remington .44? I have read some of the data given for the Swiss in your book also.

mec · December 13, 2005, 06:41 PM

"....If we ever duel, I'll choose swords!"
All you'd have to do is stand back and watch me cut myself. This was a very nice 6 round group but I thoroughly screwed up a 25 yard target. No picture of that one.

Swiss and Pyrodex P seem to play leap-frog as to which will get the higher velocity. They are close with goex behind. However, Goex is just as consistent and no more fouling than Swiss and If I didn't have to mail order all my black, I'd shoot a lot more of it. In fact, when I did put in a 25 pound order a while back, it was all goex 2 and 3f except for some un-named 4f prime. H777 is still somewhat of a mystery to me but it appears that if you can seat your ball without compressing the powder very much, It works very well. - look at it velocity and extreme spread-wise in the picture above.

Smokin_Gun · December 14, 2005, 01:12 AM

There's alot to be said about Velosity vs Accuracy vs Effectivity. I think the only advantage of using 777 is to pack a hotter load, and not have to clean it within 24hours. I already know what works with "Holy Black" and just can't make myself go pay more and complicate my loads, all my guns are pretty accurate as they be now. Now this is just for me, my opinion. I clean my guns right away reguardless after shooting, and don't really want any loads hotter than what I already shoot. I was always told that if it ain't broke don't fix it, you know? HeHe! But experimenting is always fun. So until I really have a need to use something else I'll stick to "Holy Black" and not taint my reputation...LoL!

Besides I do like bright lite and lots a smoke when I squeeze the trigger.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...un/BOOOOOM.jpg

Low Key · December 14, 2005, 06:04 AM

Loadin that dragoon a little hot aint' ya??!!

Remington kid · December 14, 2005, 07:27 AM

And they say that these C&B revolvers are not very strong

Old Dragoon · December 14, 2005, 08:47 AM

SG,
That reminds me of the night a culprit tried to break into my friends kitchen window. I was asleep on the couch. Of course the breaking glass got my attention, just as my friend emerged from their bedroom wearing nothing but jockey's and a Colt Army 44 C&B. He said "Stay down." I did, he cut loose. Dark house, big gun, large flash. Scared the crap out of the perp. Police found him behind the bushes near the garage by the smell. Darn near blinded me, but I remember well, the 3 foot of flame out the end o' that Colt. I have often wondered what the flame would have been like out of a Walker.

mec · December 14, 2005, 09:28 AM

Like a flame thrower at night for sure. Heck, even in the daylight:

and any time I see a guy wearing a jock heading my way, I scram outta there whether he has a gun or notl

Smokin_Gun · December 14, 2005, 09:36 AM

I'd have given anything to see the look on that perp's face...LoL! And I'm LMAO at what the Officer said about the smell...

Low Key I just loaded it that hot one time to be a member of the Warthogs....LoL!

Mec Nice pic, that had to be at least a 3' flame in broad daylite.

December 13, 2005, 03:38 PM	#1
mec Junior member Join Date: December 6, 2001 Posts: 1,536	Dragoon Loads The other day, we pretty well established that Dragoons are neat. Here are some loads I've gathered over time. The H777 load, I clocked today as well as the loads below using Pyrodex Rifle/Shotgun. Note the variabity in performance. Sometimes the difference between a .457 ball and a .454 is significant-(other times, not). I had two cans of Pyrodex RS- one new and one at least ten years old that had been almost used up. I noted the same loss of velocity once when I compaired 25 year old Pyrodex P with a new can of the stuff. Interstingly enough, the old Pyrodex P hadden't lost any more velocity (relatively) than the old but much newer Pyrodex RS. Both retain the usual low extreme spreads. I was careful to seat ball over the H777 just deep enough to dent the top of the powder column without compressing it very much. This seems to be the key in getting consistent velocities with that stuff- though I'm still far short of really understanding it. Last edited by mec; August 28, 2010 at 09:22 PM.

December 14, 2005, 01:12 AM	#5
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Just my opinion There's alot to be said about Velosity vs Accuracy vs Effectivity. I think the only advantage of using 777 is to pack a hotter load, and not have to clean it within 24hours. I already know what works with "Holy Black" and just can't make myself go pay more and complicate my loads, all my guns are pretty accurate as they be now. Now this is just for me, my opinion. I clean my guns right away reguardless after shooting, and don't really want any loads hotter than what I already shoot. I was always told that if it ain't broke don't fix it, you know? HeHe! But experimenting is always fun. So until I really have a need to use something else I'll stick to "Holy Black" and not taint my reputation...LoL! Besides I do like bright lite and lots a smoke when I squeeze the trigger. http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...un/BOOOOOM.jpg __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

December 14, 2005, 06:04 AM	#6
Low Key Senior Member Join Date: September 4, 2005 Location: In the woods of TN Posts: 298	re: bright lights and lots of smoke... Loadin that dragoon a little hot aint' ya??!! __________________

December 14, 2005, 09:28 AM	#9
mec Junior member Join Date: December 6, 2001 Posts: 1,536	Like a flame thrower at night for sure. Heck, even in the daylight: and any time I see a guy wearing a jock heading my way, I scram outta there whether he has a gun or notl Last edited by mec; August 28, 2010 at 09:22 PM.

December 14, 2005, 09:36 AM	#10
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	I'd have given anything to see the look on that perp's face...LoL! And I'm LMAO at what the Officer said about the smell... Low Key I just loaded it that hot one time to be a member of the Warthogs....LoL! Mec Nice pic, that had to be at least a 3' flame in broad daylite. __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

December 13, 2005, 06:23 PM	#2
Steve499 Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Central Missouri Posts: 533	Thanks for the info, mec. If we ever duel, I'll choose swords! Steve

December 13, 2005, 06:29 PM	#3
Remington kid Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: South Central West Virginia Posts: 611	Mec, Great info! Good shooten too. Now I have a question for you. From the first time I ever touched a muzzle loader (I was about 12) I have used nothing but Goex. It works so I just never changed and found that I could always work up a good load with it no matter what I was sighting in, rifle, shotgun, musket, pistol and revolver. Never tried any of the "imposter powders" but that is mainly due to the price and I'm really a cheap skate! At the same time I keep hearing and reading good things about the old Swiss black powder and the velosity and accuracy alway's seems to be really high with Swiss.In fact it always seems real close to H777. Have you found that to be true in your test over the years and is Swiss worth giving a try in say a 1861 .36 or the Remington .44? I have read some of the data given for the Swiss in your book also.

December 13, 2005, 06:41 PM	#4
mec Junior member Join Date: December 6, 2001 Posts: 1,536	"....If we ever duel, I'll choose swords!" All you'd have to do is stand back and watch me cut myself. This was a very nice 6 round group but I thoroughly screwed up a 25 yard target. No picture of that one. Swiss and Pyrodex P seem to play leap-frog as to which will get the higher velocity. They are close with goex behind. However, Goex is just as consistent and no more fouling than Swiss and If I didn't have to mail order all my black, I'd shoot a lot more of it. In fact, when I did put in a 25 pound order a while back, it was all goex 2 and 3f except for some un-named 4f prime. H777 is still somewhat of a mystery to me but it appears that if you can seat your ball without compressing the powder very much, It works very well. - look at it velocity and extreme spread-wise in the picture above.

December 14, 2005, 07:27 AM	#7
Remington kid Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: South Central West Virginia Posts: 611	And they say that these C&B revolvers are not very strong

December 14, 2005, 08:47 AM	#8
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	SG, That reminds me of the night a culprit tried to break into my friends kitchen window. I was asleep on the couch. Of course the breaking glass got my attention, just as my friend emerged from their bedroom wearing nothing but jockey's and a Colt Army 44 C&B. He said "Stay down." I did, he cut loose. Dark house, big gun, large flash. Scared the crap out of the perp. Police found him behind the bushes near the garage by the smell. Darn near blinded me, but I remember well, the 3 foot of flame out the end o' that Colt. I have often wondered what the flame would have been like out of a Walker.