Need some help with 204 Ruger

Muleskinner13 · December 23, 2012, 11:14 AM

I am new to the website so bare with me. I have been reloading for about 45 yrs . I bought myself an atta boy present after retiring from 21yrs in Air Guard and three trips over in the Sand Box. The problem I am having with the 204 is the necks on the brass is cracking on almost new once fired brass. I am using Hornaday dies. I was told to check the head space and it is ok. I tried annealing some cases and must have over heated them cause the necks collapsed.

Could it be the brass itself? By the way the Rifle is a Savage Md 12

Any thoughts? Thanks and Merry Christmas to All

I tried to attach a picture but I don't think it went thru

Brian Pfleuger · December 23, 2012, 11:50 AM

Is this brass "once fired" in YOUR gun, I assume?

What kind of brass is it?

"Head space" shouldn't have any relation to neck splits. If head space was off enough to blow the shoulders forward enough to effect the neck, there should be visible, obvious changes in the case shape. Even then, you shouldn't be splitting necks in one firing. Ackley cases are formed that way in a lot of cartridges, neck failures do not result.

Be careful annealing brass, if you get too much heat down into the web/head area you can have catastrophic failures.

I load .204 and use some Hornady but mostly Norma brass. Some have 7-8 loads and I've never lost one to case failure.

Muleskinner13 · December 23, 2012, 12:00 PM

The brass has come from a couple of different guns. The necks are splitting when I reload them some are winchester and some Hornaday.

K472 · December 23, 2012, 12:41 PM

I have been reloading the 204 for about 4 years now. The Hornady cases split for me too. I have thought about annealing them also. but as I only have it happen to about 1 in a 100 I have not done it yet.

I shoot an AR platform for Prarie dogs loaded fairly hot and full length resize each time.

I have also found that the Hornady rims are regularly oversize, making them difficult to get in and out of the shell holder at times.

I have used Winchester and Norma brass also. No issues so far with the Winchester. Norma provides noticeable accuracy improvements for my weapon but is very expensive.

If I was punching paper I would use it exclusively but I only need minute of prarie dog.

kimbers rule · December 23, 2012, 01:36 PM

I have loaded alot of .204 in both winchester and hornady brass. Ive never had a problem with the winchester splitting but the flash holes are not concentric with the primer pockets. I have had hornadys split after the first reload. They were once fired factory brass and once I got the few that split out of the batch of 250 rounds I have had no trouble with the rest after about 8 loadings. R-P brass has been the best Ive used so far. And its affordable too.

hounddawg · December 23, 2012, 02:38 PM

had issues with Hornady brass also, using Winchester now but none have been reloaded

Kevin Rohrer · December 23, 2012, 08:59 PM

It could be the brass. Hornady stuff doesn't have a good rep, although Winchester does.

You chamber neck could be oversize. What is the width of a fired round at the top of the neck?

Annealing *might* help, if done correctly. 750-degrees for 5-seconds will do it. Don't let the flame get past the shoulder. There are Youtube videos available to learn how to do it.

Muleskinner13 · December 24, 2012, 07:36 AM

I will try to refine my annealing process. And barrow another set of 204 dies and see if that makes a differance. I like the Md 12 Savage with the acura trigger. But the brass cracking bothers me. Thanks

Colorado Redneck · December 25, 2012, 12:30 AM

I have Remington brass for the 204 Ruger. After 3 or so resizings split necks start showing up. Not more than 2-3% each time. My gun hates neck sized brass so they are full length sized only.

I looked into annealing cases and to do it right is a bit more difficult than merely heating the case neck and dropping them in water. I would do a forum search here and on the Internet. It is easier for me to buy a bag of brass. YMMV

A_Gamehog · December 25, 2012, 11:36 AM

Quote:

The problem I am having with the 204 is the necks on the brass is cracking on almost new once fired brass.

Stop "overthinking" your problem.

You don't anneal once fired 204 brass in a factory chamber. You made the necks softer and then inside chamfered them? to a knife point?

1). Full length size the brass
2). Trim to length.
3). Primer after cleaning holes.
4). Powder
5). Seat to length.
6). Test.
7). Repeat.

Then you can "cook" your brass with a torch after 5-6 loadings.

Enjoy reloading but get the 204 Ruger basics down first. It has it's own special problems you don't find with other cals. Winchester 204 brass is the worst out of the box to buy, I got 500 bad split necks from cabellas last year out of 1,000 I also use the RCBS comp. seater with the "window" to seat the flat based bullets for the 204. No more crushed cases using that seater die.
Brass is good but $$$
1). Norma 60$ per 100
2). Nosler 70+ per 100
3). Hornady 50+ per 100
4). Win-Rem 45+ per 100

I use Norma and Hornady now.Hornady has a thicker case neck than Norma!
knowing that you might need to process your loads differently.
Good luck.

hounddawg · December 26, 2012, 06:04 AM

good info on the RCBS die Gamehog, those itty bitty flat bottomed bullets can be a pain, literally with the pinched fingers

Ifishsum · December 26, 2012, 10:15 PM

I've got 8-9 loads on some of the first Hornady cases I bought with the rifle, don't think I've had a split neck yet. I noticed early on that the .204 really needs lube inside the necks when resizing - if I don't, the expander button puts enough pressure coming out the neck to elongate the shoulders and make them hard to chamber, especially with the Hornady brass. Sometimes even pulls the expander/decap rod through the die. Not sure if that has to do with your problem, but the extra working can"t be good. I usually neck size with a FL die backed off about a turn, and bump the shoulders back every 4-5 firings. Cases are very minimal chamfered, I only load BTs in it.

December 23, 2012, 11:14 AM	#1
Muleskinner13 Junior Member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Posts: 3	Need some help with 204 Ruger I am new to the website so bare with me. I have been reloading for about 45 yrs . I bought myself an atta boy present after retiring from 21yrs in Air Guard and three trips over in the Sand Box. The problem I am having with the 204 is the necks on the brass is cracking on almost new once fired brass. I am using Hornaday dies. I was told to check the head space and it is ok. I tried annealing some cases and must have over heated them cause the necks collapsed. Could it be the brass itself? By the way the Rifle is a Savage Md 12 Any thoughts? Thanks and Merry Christmas to All I tried to attach a picture but I don't think it went thru

December 23, 2012, 12:00 PM	#3
Muleskinner13 Junior Member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Posts: 3	Thanks for the reply The brass has come from a couple of different guns. The necks are splitting when I reload them some are winchester and some Hornaday.

December 23, 2012, 02:38 PM	#6
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	had issues with Hornady brass also, using Winchester now but none have been reloaded __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

December 23, 2012, 08:59 PM	#7
Kevin Rohrer Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2010 Location: Medina, Ohio Posts: 1,049	It could be the brass. Hornady stuff doesn't have a good rep, although Winchester does. You chamber neck could be oversize. What is the width of a fired round at the top of the neck? Annealing might help, if done correctly. 750-degrees for 5-seconds will do it. Don't let the flame get past the shoulder. There are Youtube videos available to learn how to do it. __________________ Member: Orange Gunsite Family, NRA--Life, ARTCA, and American Legion. Caveat Emptor: Cavery Grips/AmericanGripz/Prestige Grips/Stealth Grips from Clayton, NC. He is a scammer

December 24, 2012, 07:36 AM	#8
Muleskinner13 Junior Member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Posts: 3	Thanks again for all the replys on the 204 ruger I will try to refine my annealing process. And barrow another set of 204 dies and see if that makes a differance. I like the Md 12 Savage with the acura trigger. But the brass cracking bothers me. Thanks

December 23, 2012, 11:50 AM	#2
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Is this brass "once fired" in YOUR gun, I assume? What kind of brass is it? "Head space" shouldn't have any relation to neck splits. If head space was off enough to blow the shoulders forward enough to effect the neck, there should be visible, obvious changes in the case shape. Even then, you shouldn't be splitting necks in one firing. Ackley cases are formed that way in a lot of cartridges, neck failures do not result. Be careful annealing brass, if you get too much heat down into the web/head area you can have catastrophic failures. I load .204 and use some Hornady but mostly Norma brass. Some have 7-8 loads and I've never lost one to case failure.

December 23, 2012, 12:41 PM	#4
K472 Member Join Date: March 7, 2009 Location: SE Kansas Posts: 31	I have been reloading the 204 for about 4 years now. The Hornady cases split for me too. I have thought about annealing them also. but as I only have it happen to about 1 in a 100 I have not done it yet. I shoot an AR platform for Prarie dogs loaded fairly hot and full length resize each time. I have also found that the Hornady rims are regularly oversize, making them difficult to get in and out of the shell holder at times. I have used Winchester and Norma brass also. No issues so far with the Winchester. Norma provides noticeable accuracy improvements for my weapon but is very expensive. If I was punching paper I would use it exclusively but I only need minute of prarie dog.

December 23, 2012, 01:36 PM	#5
kimbers rule Member Join Date: November 3, 2012 Location: State of Jefferson Posts: 95	I have loaded alot of .204 in both winchester and hornady brass. Ive never had a problem with the winchester splitting but the flash holes are not concentric with the primer pockets. I have had hornadys split after the first reload. They were once fired factory brass and once I got the few that split out of the batch of 250 rounds I have had no trouble with the rest after about 8 loadings. R-P brass has been the best Ive used so far. And its affordable too.

December 25, 2012, 12:30 AM	#9
Colorado Redneck Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2008 Location: Northeast Colorado Posts: 1,993	I have Remington brass for the 204 Ruger. After 3 or so resizings split necks start showing up. Not more than 2-3% each time. My gun hates neck sized brass so they are full length sized only. I looked into annealing cases and to do it right is a bit more difficult than merely heating the case neck and dropping them in water. I would do a forum search here and on the Internet. It is easier for me to buy a bag of brass. YMMV

December 26, 2012, 06:04 AM	#11
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	good info on the RCBS die Gamehog, those itty bitty flat bottomed bullets can be a pain, literally with the pinched fingers __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

December 26, 2012, 10:15 PM	#12
Ifishsum Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,033	I've got 8-9 loads on some of the first Hornady cases I bought with the rifle, don't think I've had a split neck yet. I noticed early on that the .204 really needs lube inside the necks when resizing - if I don't, the expander button puts enough pressure coming out the neck to elongate the shoulders and make them hard to chamber, especially with the Hornady brass. Sometimes even pulls the expander/decap rod through the die. Not sure if that has to do with your problem, but the extra working can"t be good. I usually neck size with a FL die backed off about a turn, and bump the shoulders back every 4-5 firings. Cases are very minimal chamfered, I only load BTs in it.