.327 Fed Magnum

[willr]

Have been searching the internet for bullets without success. No one has anything but 71 gr. for .32 auto and these are rare. Berry doesn't make their 90 gr. plated anymore. Everyone seems out of stock. There are a couple of possibilities, however, and am wondering if anyone has tried these.

X-Treme Bullets has 7.62x39 123 gr plated which are .312" diameter. Berry's has 7.62x39 110 gr plated, but they are .311" diameter.

Has anyone tried either of these for the .327 Mag? If so what results? I know that 110 gr bullets are listed in some reloading guides, but nobody says anything about bullets greater than 115 gr.

Help will be appreciated. Thanks in advance/

willr

[Sevens]

This is a LONG OVERDUE thread on the .327 Federal Magnum here at TFL. In running a search, I see that willr has poked his head in on occasion and gotten very little response. Its nothing personal, I'm quite sure, it's just that not many folks are loading this one! I missed this most recent thread here, but it's my opinion that we should make this the unofficial official .327 Federal Magnum reloading reference here on TFL forums! Shouldn't be too tough, we won't have much competition!

As to your query, willr, I looked at the Berry's 7.62x39 slug also. In the end, I didn't try it. But it's getting to the point where I almost want to try it!

[Sevens]

I somehow bought a box of Hornady 100gr XTP bullets last year when I was thinking about starting up in .32 Auto. Well, I wasn't reading the box... didn't realize that they were too heavy... realized later that I couldn't use them. If only I knew then what I know now: Apparently, I have the world's LAST box of .312" 100gr Hornady XTP bullets!

With these bullets, and some help from a patient forum friend with QuickLoad, I put together 6 different loads with the bullets, using three different powders.

I used AA#7, 2400 and Power Pistol for these loads. I stayed under "published" max, but duly noting that there isn't much published data out there from a real source. I took some from testing done by magazine article writers and others from running numbers through QuickLoad. What else can you do? I e-mail Alliant and all I get back is worthless data using 115gr Speer Gold Dot bullets that nobody can buy... the same bullets from the hot .327 factory ammo that nobody ever sees for sale.

My loads all worked well but I have no chrono to report numbers. "Felt" recoil was similar to the American Eagle 100gr factory ammo... a little warmer than the weaker Hydra-Shok 85gr factory load.

I've been searching all the online retailers for about 5 months for jacketed slugs in range from 85 to 115 grains. Sierra makes a 90, Hornady offers an 85 and 100, Speer has the 115 gr Gold Dot. Federal is bringing an 85gr JSP to market for their new American Eagle ammo (they currently offer the 100gr JSP in factory ammo only) but the bottom line on every single one of these products is that no factory is producing them and no retailer has any in stock.

They are all churning out the popular stuff to try and catch up. No idea when anyone is going to make another jacketed .312" slug in any weight above the .32 Automatic's 71 gr FMJ.

[Sevens]

And the next logical step when you can't get any proper bullets because none of the manufacturers are making any and you don't want to venture in to cast lead just yet?

I put to use what I had -- 71gr FMJ slugs built for a .32 Automatic. Foreign territory here, I've got a very short bullet with no cannelure, so I'm "guessing" with COAL and bullet depth. I need as much "meat" as I can get for the case to grab, but these tiny little bullets don't have much length!

And load data? Nonexistent. I caught one article from G&A from a couple years ago when the cartridge debuted and they had one combo that used a 71gr slug. Their data showed that slug at over 1,700 fps, but it was through a 6-inch Ruger Blackhawk, IIRC. (converted from .32 H&R Mag) One load used W540 and the other Hodgdon HS-6, neither of which is a powder I keep on hand. So I am not the first guy to try and send a 71gr pill from a .327, but I'm probably in the top 10 for trying!

I punched up a buddy through e-mail that uses QuickLoad and asked him if he could run a few numbers for me. Eventually, we got QL to spit out a 4.6gr charge of Bullseye pushing a 71gr FMJ in .327 Federal Mag out of a SP-101 at about 1,100 FPS. Of course, these are calculated and estimated numbers -- I don't have a chrono. Range tested on Sunday, these little poppers have (predictably) little felt recoil, but a nice loud pop and flash. QL suggests that it's running 15,000 PSI, but I find that hard to believe. I think it's warmer than that.

I'd like to think I can ramp up Bullseye a bit, but probably not much before I have to move to a different powder. But it sure would be nice to see some numbers that give me an idea of a max load... I want to read it LONG before I go anywhere near it.

I'd like to go forth with this load and ramp it up a bit so I'm going to ask the techs at Alliant if they will help... not sure what I'll get from them. I don't see any logical reason why I can't send one of these little pills at about 1,600 or 1,700 FPS with the right powder -- Federal gets 1,400-1,500 out of 100 & 115 grain slugs.

So what's purpose? Quite simple... just looking for a practice load out of the .327 Federal Magnum that doesn't cost $30 per box of 50. It isn't a hunting round, it's not a defense round, it's just something that isn't a pipsqueak that can be used to pile up a bunch of quality range time. And until the rest of the jacketed slugs get produced again, I think this is the way I'm going.

Comments, suggestions, ideas?

[highrolls]

Not sure if this will help but it does add three choices (60 grain bullets) to the mix.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammunit...02/index1.html

[rc]

I have not loaded 327 but a fair amount of 32 mag. Here is what I've learned. Use a .32 auto expander die. Only use the long 32 wadcutter expander with wadcutter bullets. For slow to moderate loads use fast powder like 231. For high performanced loads use H110 or similar. Roll crimp bullets with a crimp groove using 32 mag/long dies and auto pistol bullets with taper crimp dies. Be careful of bullet setback. rc

[Red_Eagle]

Midway USA has some Miesters and Hunter Supply bullets in the 90-100 grain range if you don't mind cast lead.

[Clark]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

These bullets appear to be in stock, 85 gr Sierra:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=177905

I have worked up loads with many bullets and powders for 32 S&W Long.

This is the same cartridge as a 32 H&R Mag or a 327 Fed Mag, just a little shorter.

What I found was that 800X and LIL'GUN were the powders.

The pressure can go from wimpy to stuck cases in a hurry, so I have to work up in .1 gr increments, not 1 gr increments.

The 100 year old Colt revolvers were built for wimpy loading and lead bullets. The hot loads can deform the forcing cones. If the cone is TIG welded and re shaped with more materiel to be sturdier, the little revolvers are good to go for loads just below the stuck case threshold.

6.5 gr 800X 85 gr Hornady, 1.29", easy out
13 gr LIL'GUN 85 gr HNDY, 1.29", easy out, case full, lower pressure
sign on primer.
recoil and primer signs about the same in two above and are both high
recoil and low pressure.

[FrankenMauser]

I've been fighting some 71gr FMJs (Magtech) in .32 S&W Long brass (Magtech) for 2 days now.

Have any of you had issues with tension? Setback?

I just can't get enough tension on the bullet to make me feel safe. I'm starting to think I need to use 3.0gr of Trail Boss, seat the bullets beyond the ogive, and roll crimp them in, like a Wadcutter.


The issues with the 71gr FMJs pushed me to pay the ridiculous price for a box of .327 Gold Dots and a box of .327 Hydrashoks, so I can break the barrel in with jacketed stuff before lead hits the grooves.

If you're curious (and I plan to update here), future loads will be combinations of:
HP-38
Trail Boss
Unique
H110
Lil' Gun
Tite Group (possible - I'd have to buy more. gave my last pound away.)

Meister 94gr LRNFP
Meister 115gr LRNFP
Whatever jacketed stuff I can get my hands on

.32 S&W Long
.32 H&R
.327 Federal

-- All tailored to the 5.5" Blackhawk.

[Sevens]

I haven't loaded any ammo in .32 S&W Long brass but I have not had any trouble with tension -- certainly not any kind of setback. In a revolver round, you'd maybe have some leap forward rather than setback? But I doubt you'd generate enough recoil in a large Blackhawk to make those little pills jump.

I'm loading my .327 Mag/71gr FMJ to 1.481" COAL.

I've loaded a few hundred with Berry's 71gr Plated RN using a charge weight of 4.6gr of Bullseye and QuickLoad estimates these somewhere around 1,100 FPS out of the 3" SP-101 barrel. Recoil is hardly there.

I've since ramped up that powder charge, but when I go up from 4.6 grains, I also switch from the Berry's plated slug to a Winchester FMJ. I've sent these at 4.9gr and 5.2 grains. I've got no chrono so I'm not sure what speed these are running at, and if you have QuickLoad and you run them, I'd appreciate hearing an estimated/simulated muzzle velocity.

I've built some more at 5.6 and 6.0 grains but haven't tested them. Repeated attempts to fish some kind of data for these little pills from Ben at ATK has been 100% fruitless. He won't give advice for use with them and any powder at any charge.

Whatever you do with this round at the load bench, I would personally appreciate updates to this thread. This round is as close as a wildcat as I'm likely to ever get. Not that it is a wildcat, just that I feel like I'm wandering blind through a forest as there just isn't much published precedent for anything I'm doing here.

[Sevens]

Oh yeah, the powders I've used with 100gr Hornady XTP's include: AA#7, 2400, and Power Pistol. I've loaded and shot a limited number of these as I happened to have a box of them from quite a ways back and there are none to be had now. (as per my recent Hornady thread)

[FrankenMauser]

In a revolver round, you'd maybe have some leap forward rather than setback?

Sorry, I should have been a little more clear.
I'm not terribly worried about bullets working loose in the cylinder, it's setback.... but not from recoil. These little 71gr 'things' are loose enough to slide into the case with the slightest touch. I managed to get 12 rounds put together, to see if I could trust a taper crimp. (Non-scientific, push on the bullet with my thumb, test.)
Two bullets held tight.
About 6 pushed in easily.
The rest pushed in easily, then actually fell to the powder charge.

Being HP-38, I didn't want to chance super high pressures, from the decreased volume.

That's why I'm debating about Trail Boss. I can use a powder charge that is not compressed, but does support the bullet; and still seat beyond the ogive, just enough to roll crimp it in - wadcutter style.
(Trail Boss has some nice warnings saying to never compress it.)


As for the 71gr bullets, in general -
You may want to give Sierra a call. (800-223-8799) Their advertisements always claim they will give load data for "Any bullet. Any Powder. Any Cartridge."

The only data I have found is the JHP data from the Shooting Times article:
71gr Magtech JHP, 9.7gr W540, CCI 500 primer. (1,400 fps - SP101. 1,774 fps - 7.5" Blackhawk.)
Everything else I have found was on internet forums, and varied so wildly that I chose to ignore it all.

[Sevens]

Well, I'm not sure why you are taper crimping -- a .32 H&R Mag die will roll crimp. That's what I'm using. (Lee dies) I can roll crimp enough to clamp that little pill in there with no trouble whatsoever. I can even roll crimp enough to keep a plated bullet in there without cutting through the razor-thin plating.

I like the idea of calling Sierra but maybe I'm old fashioned... I don't have any Sierra .312" bullets on hand. So I'd be calling them for advice using Winchester bullets and Alliant powder. Think it's cool to call them when not using any of their products?

I did see that 71 grain data from the ST article. I sure don't have that powder!

[Scott5]

Hey Willr,
Give these a try.:http://www.dardascastbullets.com/mm5...gory_Code=32WC

And these.:http://www.pennbullets.com/32/32-caliber.html

http://www.meisterbullets.com/asccus...22&navParent=0
And one here.:http://www.laser-cast.com/32Cal.html

That's about all that I can find.

Happy shooting
Scott5

[Crankylove]

Tite Group (possible - I'd have to buy more. gave my last pound away.)

I don't use it, so say the word and its yours again.

[rc]

I use mainly RCBS dies and what I found is that shooting jacketed bullets in 32 long and mag requires the 32 acp expander rather than the 32 long expander that opens the case deeply to accept full wadcutter bullets. Overexpansion is causing the problems you described not lack of sizing. If you don't plan on using wadcutters you can modify the .32 long expander to work like the 32 acp. You also may need to have the taper crimp die for the .32 acp in order to correctly crimp 60and 71 grain 32 acp bullets in the longer cases. you can always look for a used non carbide 32 acp set for the seater and expander die. The sizer die is the same for 32acp, long and mag. They simply use a different shell holder. I bought a couple of extra used sets of dies fairly cheaply. I ground down the roll crimp die from an old 70s rcbs set so I can correctly crimp 32 S&W and I use an ACP die set to load 32 acp bullets into long and mag cases. rc

[FrankenMauser]

Well, I'm not sure why you are taper crimping -- a .32 H&R Mag die will roll crimp.

I had read many reports of non-cannelure Jacketed bullets having issues without a TC die. I did try a Roll Crimp with the 71gr FMJs - it was not a success.

Think it's cool to call them when not using any of their products?

I plan to. I'm curious to see what their recommendation would be for Unique under that little 71gr in .32 S&W Long, .32 H&R, and .327 Federal and Lil' Gun with my 115gr Meister LRNFPs in .327 and .32 H&R.

I use mainly RCBS dies and what I found is that shooting jacketed bullets in 32 long and mag requires the 32 acp expander rather than the 32 long expander that opens the case deeply to accept full wadcutter bullets. Overexpansion is causing the problems you described not lack of sizing.

I had read about this very same issue. I considered a .32 Auto expander, but didn't get one. However.... I did try seating some of the 71gr FMJs in unsized and unexpanded cases, as well as sized and unexpanded cases. Nothing is working. Maybe I need to take some better measurements of what I've actually got sitting on my bench. (Quick measurements of the cases showed them to be what was expected of just-sized brass, but I wasn't too precise.)

You also may need to have the taper crimp die for the .32 acp in order to correctly crimp 60and 71 grain 32 acp bullets in the longer cases.

I picked up a Redding Profile Crimp die for taper crimping.

Also, a Lyman M die for lead duties. I don't like the RCBS design. It still shaves too much lead. Even though the RCBS name is on all but one of my die sets, I like to go to other companies for use-specific dies (Lyman, Redding, Hornady, Lee, whatever is needed.)

[BluesBear]

If you're going to load 70-75gr fmj bullets intended for the .32ACP in any .32 revolver cartridge you're going to need to use a .32acp expander die IF you use any expander at all. The problem is that bullets intended for .32ACP are .308" diameter and .32 revolver expander plugs are designed for use with .311-.312" bullets.

I really like the 86gr Hornady JSP (cat #3100) that is labeled 30 Mauser. I really like its performance in my .30 Luger loads and its a real screamer in my M1 Carbine! Only recently have I started using it in .327. While slightly undersized, I've found them to be reasonably accurate from a Charter Arms Patriot. (I haven had a chance to slug the barrel yet to determine its true bore diameter.) When I first loaded them (and 71 and 73 gr FMJ) in .32 H&R Special (it doesn't deserve the magnum moniker but that's a rant for another day) I too was having trouble keeping them from dropping down inside the case. So I tried the expander die from my .32ACP dies thinking that would be the solution. It was better but not by much so I tried the expanders from my .30 Mauser dies and my .30 Luger dies. While they worked somewhat okay with .32 S&W Long brass they still didn't give me reliable tension with .327 brass. It was still too easy to just press the bullets into the case with moderate finger pressure. Not a good thing to do, internal ballistics pressure wise.

That's when I tried the expander from my .30 Carbine dies. I only expand about a quarter inch or so deep into the case then I give it a bit more mouth flare with a Lee universal expander die. My bullets are now seating tight enough to not worry about bullet setback. In fact I am getting just as good results when using the Lee die alone.

The main difference is that when using the Carbine expander I have an extra step but my bullets are pristine. By not using it, the increased seating resistance often causes the seating stem to leave a slightly noticable ring on the bullet ogive and just ever so gently reshapes the exposed lead nose. So it's matter of personal choice.

After closely examining the .327 Hydra Shok load I gleaned that Federal was using a taper crimp on those bullets instead of a roll crimp. So at the last gun show I found an RCBS .327 taper crimp die and now my .32 bullets are locked in position from both directions.

In reality if one already had a set of .32 ACP dies and was intending to only load jacketed bullets in .32 H&R Special/.327 Magnum, then they could just use the ACP dies for both and if they decided to use the smaller ACP bullets in the revolver cases just add the Lee Universal Sizing Die. (The .32 ACP and .32/.327 revolver sizing dies are dimensionally identical)

[Sevens]

This is great information and positive life for this thread!

I'm using the standard Lee Carbide 3-die .32 H&R "Special" set. (heh, special, I like that, and I agree!)

I'm simply using my mouth flaring die VERY EASILY, not much flare at all to open up the case mouth for use with the little 71 grainers. And no, I can't fit one in to a freshly sized and unflared case -- so I'm wondering if my size die size my brass under the size that everyone else's size die does.

I'm also using the roll crimp die to finish the work -- but lightly, very lightly, so that I'm putting a visible ring in a plated bullet (you only see when you pull it) but not such a deep ring that it cuts the plating.

If I were loading an autochucker with these rounds, I would probably demand more out of a crimp just for safety's sake, but these work well for me.

If you are successfully using .308" .30 Mauser bullets in the .327, that makes me want to try some .308" .30 Carb 110-grainers in there, but I think I'll be back to your guys' square one: no case mouth tension.

[joneb]

Why not cast bullets ?

[Sevens]

Cast bullets are an option, but it gets squirrelly when you intend to send these little SOB's at 1,500-plus FPS.

I load cast lead in 9mm, .38, 10mm and .45 and I have been doing all of these for may years, so it's not like it's out of the question. But I'm not looking for a powder puff load here, I'm trying to flex the muscles of the cartridge.

As I said in another thread on another topic, one of my reasons for making this stuff is to replicate the feel and point of aim of the high dollar defense ammo, so I want them to scream.

[Landric]

For those interested in casting, we have an active group buy going on for a 115 grain Keith SWC in the .314 range. There are options for plain base, gas checks, and hollow points, in any combination one would like.

I don't load for the .327 (though I may eventually), but I'll be using these in .32 H&R, and perhaps .32 S&W Long. Hardcast with a gas check this bullet should be able to do just about anything a jacketed one could do in .327, and do it a lot more cheaply.

Here is the link:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=79848

[joneb]

from post #14,

:http://www.pennbullets.com/32/32-caliber.html

The 95gr SWCBB says velocity up to 1,600 fps with proper sizing and hardness they may work better than the acp bullets ?

[willr]

The difficulty with reloading the .327 magnum is the lack of suitable bullets -- especially since Berry stopped making the .32 cal 90 grain plated.

Previously, I have asked about possible substitutes -- with no knowlegable reply. So I have decided to try something: using the Xtreme Bullets 123 gr 7.62x39 plated. They are .312" diameter, which is right for the .327 Mag. Have loaded only a few, but they seem to be working just fine so far.

willr

[FrankenMauser]

The problem is that bullets intended for .32ACP are .308" diameter

I've never seen a .32 Auto bullet that was .308", but it may depend on the manufacturer. Just to be safe; I double checked - again.
These Magtech 71gr FMJs are .3115" to .312". I also measured some Winchester .32 Auto ammunition on hand (no idea how I got it - no one I know has owned a .32 Auto), and they were .311".

For now, I'm just going to chalk them up to a failed attempt at cheap trigger time.

Hopefully, I get my Starline .32 H&R brass soon. I'm hoping it will be easier to work with. If not, I get to play the waiting game with either the American Eagle SP loads, or the "Coming Soon" Federal .327 brass.