Mossberg yes Remington NO!

HarryB · November 21, 1999, 03:54 PM

Sold my Mossberg 500 at a show recently and feel naked without an HD shotgun in the house. Had been trying to choose between another Mossberg 500/590 and the Remington 870. A con of the 870 are the dimples in the mag tube. That set me thinking:

If Remington deliberately hinders me in LEGALLY raising the capacity of a weapon designed to protect me and my family, then screw 'em! I guess the only choice is I do have is to spend the extra bucks to get the 590 over the 500 or not. Right now the 590 is looking good (ghost ring sights for $400.)

[This message has been edited by HarryB (edited November 21, 1999).]

RickC · November 21, 1999, 05:03 PM

Or get a good, used 870 without the dimples.

Or get a 3/16th drill bit and drill the dimples out (they're hidden by the barrel retention band anyway).

Message: Keep you options open: both are fine for the task.

Bill Bryant · November 21, 1999, 05:59 PM

Or get a Winchester 1300.

------------------
Bill Bryant

Dave McC · November 21, 1999, 07:56 PM

Even a tool challenged 10 thumbed guy like me can figure out a way to dedimple that 870. You shouldn't let a little thing like that stop you from having the best darn HD/ general purpose ever made.

Get the 870,and your great grandchildren will thank you...

HarryB · November 21, 1999, 08:36 PM

I can do the work--my choice is based on principle. Why should I support Remington since their feel the need to hinder the exercising of my legal rights. Yes they make a good product, but so does Mossberg. And I am looking for a Wichester Camp Defender--8 shot 22" barrel with rifle sights and choke tubes.

RickC · November 21, 1999, 09:02 PM

Acually, it is possible that Remington put the dimples there for an entirely different reason ... it holds the spring retainer in place more efficiently than their old style compression fit. It would surprise me if they did it just to prevent extended magazine intallations.

Less than 2 minutes with a 3/16 drill? Not much of a deterent.

I wouldn't drop one of the best shotguns on the market for such a minor reason. Just my opinion.

Cat · November 21, 1999, 11:50 PM

I agree with what Rick C. said.

Neil Casper

Bennett Richards · November 21, 1999, 11:55 PM

Get the Remington 870 Police model or the Marine Magnum. No dimples.

On the Tactics-l list a gunsmith said that for every one Reminton he saw come in for repairs he would see 10 Mossbergs. Felt that the Remington was tops in reliability. This echoes just about everything else I had heard on reliability.. If you are going to shoot a LOT get a Remington or a Benelli.

Ben

**4V50 Gary** · November 22, 1999, 10:15 AM

You could spend a fortune for a Mossberg 590, or very little for a plain Jane 870.

I have both and like both. For home defense, it's the 870. Why? Because if I were to shoot anyone in self defense, the cops will confiscate my gun as evidence. Once in the hands of the property clerks, the gun will not be given the loving care and can see some abuse. Better to have a cheaper priced gun than a higher priced gun impounded.

------------------
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

Bennett Richards · November 22, 1999, 03:11 PM

Actually, I found that the Mossberg was cheaper than the 870 almost everywhere I looked. Mossberg 590A1 about $400 and Remington 870 Marine $480

Ben

pete80 · November 22, 1999, 03:12 PM

Go with the gun that served our country since Vietnam (at least?). The Remington 870 can be found in most police cars across the United States and it will stay there for quite some time. Accessories for the 870 are cheap and readily available.

As for the dimples, any gunsmith can take them out in a day or two (depending on how busy he/she is) at a cheap price of $20-30. These prices were quoted from a few local smiths in Southern California.

The Mossberg is a good gun but it doesn't have that combat proven track record. The 870 is built to outlast you and it will do just that.

MegaDeathZ · November 23, 1999, 05:16 PM

Have a M590 for 4 years and love it. Better then any 870 i've shot(shot about 5 different ones). And this is a gun that is currently in service with Marines and Navy Seals. The gun also saw some combat during the last 10 years all over the globe. So pick m590(with metal trigger and safety if possible)

Bennett Richards · November 24, 1999, 01:44 AM

Mega,

The SEALS I know prefer the 870... Like a steel reciever.

Ben

pete80 · November 24, 1999, 01:45 AM

Remington 870HD $270

Dave McC · November 24, 1999, 07:37 AM

During my career with the Md Dept of Public Safety, the 870 was the weapon of choice for all prison work. When I entered in 1977, there were still some Model 97s and 12s, both great pumps, but expensive to machine.

The 870 stood up just as well. Training weapons get shot a lot, I can think of one 870 that went on the line in 1981 and was still pumping out thousands of rounds/yr in 1998 when I retired.Tower weapons get abused, ours stood up well. Other shotguns were tried, oft ordered in by cost conscious administrators,politicians and d*m fools. None stood up like the 870s. There was the Winchester 1200, the S&W 3000,etc.

The Mossberg MAY be a good weapon. IMO, the safety's where one should be. But, the 870 has oneheckuva track record and ANY shotgun would have to show itself superior by beating that record, and I don't see it happening...

Kingcreek · November 25, 1999, 06:30 AM

I once had a M500 slug gun for home defense, but the PLASTIC safety came apart. I put it back together and found it a new owner.
rem 870 now in its place.

Jorah Lavin · November 25, 1999, 01:08 PM

Hi, everyone.

I'm glad to see this thread, because I was just asking about the 870 on an email list. I'm going to need some recomendations on appropriate loads for HD and practice. Here is my original question:

>A friend who has been looking to buy a shotgun for home defense/Y2K was
>visting last night. We were talking about appropriate types of loads, and
>I told him that there had been a thread on the .223 vs. shotgun debate, and
>I figured that some of you on the shotgun side might have a suggestion. The
>gun would need to be handled by several people from 120 lb. women to 200
>lb. men with various amount of gun handling experence and no shotgun
>experience, so he is looking to also find a fairly inexpensive shell for
>practicing with. I've no idea even how much 12-ga. shells cost, so a
>general price range on your suggestions would be good. The gun he is
>getting: http://www.remington.com/Firearms/shotguns/870MRMAG.HTM
=====================

After reading this thread, I think I'll get that same gun myself. If this is old news, please feel free to email me directly instead of answering on the board.
<[email protected]>

Thanks!

-Moss

------------------
RKBA!
Madstone Press
http://www.madstone.net/
Gun-friendly Web development for small businesses.

Jorah Lavin · November 25, 1999, 01:23 PM

Ooops! Disregard that last... as I've continued reading the board, I see that the http://www.thefiringline.com/NonCGI/...ML/000440.html thread is answering my questions pretty much dead-on.

K80Geoff · November 26, 1999, 10:58 AM

One thing to remember about the marine magnum is that you are stuck with the cylinder barrel. The 870 express is not as pretty but has a variety of barrels available from short HD cylinder, to rifled bores to choke tube barrels of various lenghts. The 870 is more versatile and the barrels can be changed quickly should you decide to go hunting.

Geoff Ross

BigMike · November 26, 1999, 03:30 PM

Hello!
I got a Rem 870 HD 8 months ago and have found it to be the toughest shotgun I have ever fired. For the dimples, I took my Dremel and grinded the dimples into nothingness, them buffed that whole area smooth, as to not have the spring catch on anything, which is how my smith would have done it. I put on a 2 shot extender, and it works like a charm. 7+1. Shot my friends Mossberg several times, and it seemed to rattle, even when new. Remington seems tighter and more durable IMHO. Best...mike

Dave McC · November 26, 1999, 05:34 PM

Moss, for your friend and for you....

A shotgun, ANY shotgun, is one great HD weapon IF...

All adults who may need to resort to it are fond of shooting the darn thing. In ten years of teaching Correctional Officers to shoot effectively, only those who shoot recreationally were anything more than just able to load,fire and safe the weapon.

Wonderful Wife doesn't like shotguns, she and Daughter have other alternatives available. The 870 kept ready is mine.

If you still want to get a shotgun for HD, the 870 has an unmatched track record. Correctional weapons get abused, and maintainance is oft if and when.The 870 just keeps working pure and simple, when other brands have not.

I recommend some training to go along with the purchase,and lots of familiarization at the range. Clays,skeet, trapatc, are all fun and get one used to the procedures of firing.

Light loads like skeet and trap loads are great, inexpensive practice ammo. Save the 00 for later.

Hope I've answered your questions, if not,sing out...

pete80 · November 26, 1999, 06:46 PM

Let's just say your a singl american male who can handle the recoil of a 12 gauge shotgun, go with the proven 870 and shoot it as much as you can!

Those reduced recoil slugs/buckshot shells really are nice on the shoulder.

Bennett Richards · November 26, 1999, 09:30 PM

K80Goeff,
The Marine Magnum will accept any of the barrels that the regular 870 will. Main diff is the Nickle finish. Reciever will be bright.. barrel dark... Who cares?

Ben

pete80 · November 27, 1999, 01:19 PM

That would actually look pretty cool, a two-toned shotgun.

Frank the Spank · November 27, 1999, 11:21 PM

I shot a shotgun for the first time yesterday (I own two handguns) and man was it fun!!! It was a Rem 870... I REALLY liked this shotgun... only prob is I wish it held more rounds...

but the look of it... man.. all flat black.. gotta love it! I was skeet shooting with it and even me being a newbie was doin not so bad!

from what I hear of it... sounds like the 870 is a good choice to get me started... found 'em for around $300... good price also

-Frank the Spank

November 21, 1999, 03:54 PM	#1
HarryB Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 1999 Location: Mesa Arizona Posts: 330	Sold my Mossberg 500 at a show recently and feel naked without an HD shotgun in the house. Had been trying to choose between another Mossberg 500/590 and the Remington 870. A con of the 870 are the dimples in the mag tube. That set me thinking: If Remington deliberately hinders me in LEGALLY raising the capacity of a weapon designed to protect me and my family, then screw 'em! I guess the only choice is I do have is to spend the extra bucks to get the 590 over the 500 or not. Right now the 590 is looking good (ghost ring sights for $400.) [This message has been edited by HarryB (edited November 21, 1999).]

November 21, 1999, 05:03 PM	#2
RickC Member Join Date: October 20, 1999 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 68	Or get a good, used 870 without the dimples. Or get a 3/16th drill bit and drill the dimples out (they're hidden by the barrel retention band anyway). Message: Keep you options open: both are fine for the task.

November 21, 1999, 05:59 PM	#3
Bill Bryant Member Join Date: September 16, 1999 Location: Deep in the South Posts: 46	Or get a Winchester 1300. ------------------ Bill Bryant

November 21, 1999, 07:56 PM	#4
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Even a tool challenged 10 thumbed guy like me can figure out a way to dedimple that 870. You shouldn't let a little thing like that stop you from having the best darn HD/ general purpose ever made. Get the 870,and your great grandchildren will thank you...

November 21, 1999, 08:36 PM	#5
HarryB Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 1999 Location: Mesa Arizona Posts: 330	I can do the work--my choice is based on principle. Why should I support Remington since their feel the need to hinder the exercising of my legal rights. Yes they make a good product, but so does Mossberg. And I am looking for a Wichester Camp Defender--8 shot 22" barrel with rifle sights and choke tubes.

November 21, 1999, 09:02 PM	#6
RickC Member Join Date: October 20, 1999 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 68	Acually, it is possible that Remington put the dimples there for an entirely different reason ... it holds the spring retainer in place more efficiently than their old style compression fit. It would surprise me if they did it just to prevent extended magazine intallations. Less than 2 minutes with a 3/16 drill? Not much of a deterent. I wouldn't drop one of the best shotguns on the market for such a minor reason. Just my opinion.

November 21, 1999, 11:50 PM	#7
Cat Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 1999 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 467	I agree with what Rick C. said. Neil Casper

November 21, 1999, 11:55 PM	#8
Bennett Richards Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1998 Location: Carlsbad, CA USA Posts: 356	Get the Remington 870 Police model or the Marine Magnum. No dimples. On the Tactics-l list a gunsmith said that for every one Reminton he saw come in for repairs he would see 10 Mossbergs. Felt that the Remington was tops in reliability. This echoes just about everything else I had heard on reliability.. If you are going to shoot a LOT get a Remington or a Benelli. Ben

November 22, 1999, 10:15 AM	#9
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,832	You could spend a fortune for a Mossberg 590, or very little for a plain Jane 870. I have both and like both. For home defense, it's the 870. Why? Because if I were to shoot anyone in self defense, the cops will confiscate my gun as evidence. Once in the hands of the property clerks, the gun will not be given the loving care and can see some abuse. Better to have a cheaper priced gun than a higher priced gun impounded. ------------------ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

November 22, 1999, 03:11 PM	#10
Bennett Richards Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1998 Location: Carlsbad, CA USA Posts: 356	Actually, I found that the Mossberg was cheaper than the 870 almost everywhere I looked. Mossberg 590A1 about $400 and Remington 870 Marine $480 Ben

November 22, 1999, 03:12 PM	#11
pete80 Senior Member Join Date: July 4, 1999 Posts: 454	Go with the gun that served our country since Vietnam (at least?). The Remington 870 can be found in most police cars across the United States and it will stay there for quite some time. Accessories for the 870 are cheap and readily available. As for the dimples, any gunsmith can take them out in a day or two (depending on how busy he/she is) at a cheap price of $20-30. These prices were quoted from a few local smiths in Southern California. The Mossberg is a good gun but it doesn't have that combat proven track record. The 870 is built to outlast you and it will do just that.

November 23, 1999, 05:16 PM	#12
MegaDeathZ Junior Member Join Date: November 23, 1999 Location: Chicago IL Posts: 2	Have a M590 for 4 years and love it. Better then any 870 i've shot(shot about 5 different ones). And this is a gun that is currently in service with Marines and Navy Seals. The gun also saw some combat during the last 10 years all over the globe. So pick m590(with metal trigger and safety if possible)

November 24, 1999, 01:44 AM	#13
Bennett Richards Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1998 Location: Carlsbad, CA USA Posts: 356	Mega, The SEALS I know prefer the 870... Like a steel reciever. Ben

November 24, 1999, 01:45 AM	#14
pete80 Senior Member Join Date: July 4, 1999 Posts: 454	Remington 870HD $270

November 24, 1999, 07:37 AM	#15
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	During my career with the Md Dept of Public Safety, the 870 was the weapon of choice for all prison work. When I entered in 1977, there were still some Model 97s and 12s, both great pumps, but expensive to machine. The 870 stood up just as well. Training weapons get shot a lot, I can think of one 870 that went on the line in 1981 and was still pumping out thousands of rounds/yr in 1998 when I retired.Tower weapons get abused, ours stood up well. Other shotguns were tried, oft ordered in by cost conscious administrators,politicians and d*m fools. None stood up like the 870s. There was the Winchester 1200, the S&W 3000,etc. The Mossberg MAY be a good weapon. IMO, the safety's where one should be. But, the 870 has oneheckuva track record and ANY shotgun would have to show itself superior by beating that record, and I don't see it happening...

November 25, 1999, 06:30 AM	#16
Kingcreek Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: rural Illinois Posts: 590	I once had a M500 slug gun for home defense, but the PLASTIC safety came apart. I put it back together and found it a new owner. rem 870 now in its place.

November 25, 1999, 01:08 PM	#17
Jorah Lavin Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 1999 Location: Indian Land, SC USA Posts: 593	Hi, everyone. I'm glad to see this thread, because I was just asking about the 870 on an email list. I'm going to need some recomendations on appropriate loads for HD and practice. Here is my original question: >A friend who has been looking to buy a shotgun for home defense/Y2K was >visting last night. We were talking about appropriate types of loads, and >I told him that there had been a thread on the .223 vs. shotgun debate, and >I figured that some of you on the shotgun side might have a suggestion. The >gun would need to be handled by several people from 120 lb. women to 200 >lb. men with various amount of gun handling experence and no shotgun >experience, so he is looking to also find a fairly inexpensive shell for >practicing with. I've no idea even how much 12-ga. shells cost, so a >general price range on your suggestions would be good. The gun he is >getting: http://www.remington.com/Firearms/shotguns/870MRMAG.HTM ===================== After reading this thread, I think I'll get that same gun myself. If this is old news, please feel free to email me directly instead of answering on the board. <[email protected]> Thanks! -Moss ------------------ RKBA! Madstone Press http://www.madstone.net/ Gun-friendly Web development for small businesses.

November 25, 1999, 01:23 PM	#18
Jorah Lavin Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 1999 Location: Indian Land, SC USA Posts: 593	Ooops! Disregard that last... as I've continued reading the board, I see that the http://www.thefiringline.com/NonCGI/...ML/000440.html thread is answering my questions pretty much dead-on.

November 26, 1999, 10:58 AM	#19
K80Geoff Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 1998 Location: NE Pennsylvania Posts: 3,639	One thing to remember about the marine magnum is that you are stuck with the cylinder barrel. The 870 express is not as pretty but has a variety of barrels available from short HD cylinder, to rifled bores to choke tube barrels of various lenghts. The 870 is more versatile and the barrels can be changed quickly should you decide to go hunting. Geoff Ross

November 26, 1999, 03:30 PM	#20
BigMike Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 1999 Location: North Central/Panhandle Florid Posts: 569	Hello! I got a Rem 870 HD 8 months ago and have found it to be the toughest shotgun I have ever fired. For the dimples, I took my Dremel and grinded the dimples into nothingness, them buffed that whole area smooth, as to not have the spring catch on anything, which is how my smith would have done it. I put on a 2 shot extender, and it works like a charm. 7+1. Shot my friends Mossberg several times, and it seemed to rattle, even when new. Remington seems tighter and more durable IMHO. Best...mike

November 26, 1999, 05:34 PM	#21
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Moss, for your friend and for you.... A shotgun, ANY shotgun, is one great HD weapon IF... All adults who may need to resort to it are fond of shooting the darn thing. In ten years of teaching Correctional Officers to shoot effectively, only those who shoot recreationally were anything more than just able to load,fire and safe the weapon. Wonderful Wife doesn't like shotguns, she and Daughter have other alternatives available. The 870 kept ready is mine. If you still want to get a shotgun for HD, the 870 has an unmatched track record. Correctional weapons get abused, and maintainance is oft if and when.The 870 just keeps working pure and simple, when other brands have not. I recommend some training to go along with the purchase,and lots of familiarization at the range. Clays,skeet, trapatc, are all fun and get one used to the procedures of firing. Light loads like skeet and trap loads are great, inexpensive practice ammo. Save the 00 for later. Hope I've answered your questions, if not,sing out...

November 26, 1999, 06:46 PM	#22
pete80 Senior Member Join Date: July 4, 1999 Posts: 454	Let's just say your a singl american male who can handle the recoil of a 12 gauge shotgun, go with the proven 870 and shoot it as much as you can! Those reduced recoil slugs/buckshot shells really are nice on the shoulder.

November 26, 1999, 09:30 PM	#23
Bennett Richards Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1998 Location: Carlsbad, CA USA Posts: 356	K80Goeff, The Marine Magnum will accept any of the barrels that the regular 870 will. Main diff is the Nickle finish. Reciever will be bright.. barrel dark... Who cares? Ben

November 27, 1999, 01:19 PM	#24
pete80 Senior Member Join Date: July 4, 1999 Posts: 454	That would actually look pretty cool, a two-toned shotgun.

November 27, 1999, 11:21 PM	#25
Frank the Spank Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 1999 Location: Stockton, CA Posts: 119	I shot a shotgun for the first time yesterday (I own two handguns) and man was it fun!!! It was a Rem 870... I REALLY liked this shotgun... only prob is I wish it held more rounds... but the look of it... man.. all flat black.. gotta love it! I was skeet shooting with it and even me being a newbie was doin not so bad! from what I hear of it... sounds like the 870 is a good choice to get me started... found 'em for around $300... good price also -Frank the Spank