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November 21, 2011, 04:41 PM | #151 | |
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November 21, 2011, 04:49 PM | #152 |
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GI Sandv, thanks for the additional info on the Commerce Clause. You said much more clearly what I was thinking.
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November 21, 2011, 05:01 PM | #153 | |
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People are trying to use one amendment to work on another NYC and others will first - tie it up in courts for a decade or three then, IF they lose, they will just redesignate where you can carry - which will be no where except maybe your hotel room Way too many folks here, it seems, that have not lived through the gun acts from 68 and 86 nor understand the maelstrom of political fighting this will entail - to no ones advantage in the end. Do NOT let the Feds into this argument - nothing good every came from them in any of these situations |
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November 21, 2011, 06:12 PM | #154 | |
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November 21, 2011, 06:16 PM | #155 | |
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November 21, 2011, 06:22 PM | #156 |
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I disagree completely. They will not outlaw CC. Too many people are carrying in NY and the political fallout will be too great. Plus, they will be spanked in Court.
I see nothing but good coming out of this bill. |
November 21, 2011, 06:27 PM | #157 | ||
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States that are CCW-friendly but don't necessarily have full reciprocity at the moment will simply accept the new law and probably will not try to but obstacles in the way of non-residents, because it's not worth the hassle for them. They would have to upset a lot of their own residents, so they will just live with it. So, there is some benefit in it, from that point of view. Quote:
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November 21, 2011, 07:00 PM | #158 |
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Sure there are obstacles they can put forth to try to prevent this from happening. However, any act like this opens them up to court review and scrutiny. So in the end they might lose anything they have on the books already.
As far as the limitations go, the bill talks about restricted places that some states designate. New York actually has a lot less limitations than most CCP-friendly states. NYC does issue its own CCP, and because of that it will be open for out-of-staters to carry. However, since NYS permits are not valid within NYC, New York residents will not be able to exercise their rights there. Now, if NYC outlaws all carry within its borders it will be a clear violation of the 2nd Amendment and the Federal Court will force them to issue permits again. Plus, Donald Trump and DeNiro will get ****** off at Bloomy and prevent him from doing such an unlawful act. |
November 21, 2011, 07:31 PM | #159 | ||
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November 21, 2011, 09:23 PM | #160 |
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Chicago Tribune editorial concerning 822
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November 21, 2011, 09:32 PM | #161 | |
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November 21, 2011, 09:36 PM | #162 | |
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...,4846129.story
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November 21, 2011, 10:49 PM | #163 | |
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But I don't know of any state that allows those people to get permits. It was about as much of a red herring as the liberal opposition raising the states' rights issue. The former was a lie, the latter was insincere.
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Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae |
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November 22, 2011, 06:35 AM | #164 | |
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Don't some states allow for restoration of rights, for instance Florida?
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November 22, 2011, 08:15 AM | #165 | |
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Seams like once we the people give what, at the time, seams like a reasonable inch and "they" take the unreasonable mile we can only get that mile back one inch at a time. No spelun and grammar is not my specialty. So please don't hurt my sensitive little feelings by teasing me about it. |
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November 22, 2011, 01:09 PM | #166 |
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It truly is amazing how many here think the Federal Government, and especially THIS administration is their friend when it comes to gun ownership
Here's a hint - they AREN'T, and unlike the Chicago article saying how the laxest state will set the rules, it will be the opposite - the strictest state will for "uniformity", and we will lose much more than we could possibly gain. The potential restrictions that can be easily imposed while still following the "letter of the law" can turn most CCW guns into expensive paperweights |
November 22, 2011, 03:30 PM | #167 | ||
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fear is a funny thing
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**I feel the chicago argument is just as bad as your argument and actually more plausible. The truth is neither will happen, and states will still manage their constituents their own way while adhering to the federal law imposed(which absolutley no anti gun states want to!!) watch how fast state reps move to adhere to the law when it comes down. then and only then will you truly understand because you feel they will move quick magically somehow to thwart the fed govt, all CCWs, and so-on
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November 22, 2011, 05:08 PM | #168 | |
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Yep, checked him out I see this going wrong in so many ways - just like the healthcare that no one read - this is one camel you do NOT want sticking its nose under the tent |
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November 22, 2011, 05:56 PM | #169 | |
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Sure seems like it didn't meet with much resistance in the House. |
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November 22, 2011, 10:26 PM | #170 | |
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First off, it's not going to get signed, so all we're doing is armchair quarterbacking. What is going to get the ball rolling is a Supreme Court decision affirming a right to carry. From there, the states and courts will fight it out over what constitutes a defensible infringement on that right. The difference is huge. HR 822 simply asks that a certain kind of permitted privilege be transferrable from state to state. That's a whole different enchilada. Furthermore, HR 822 leaves the door open for states like Illinois to continue to deny the right altogether. Just for fun, let's say we live in a land of magical unicorns and elves that don't steal my shoes and burn them. HR 822 gets signed into law. It will be challenged in the courts by New York, California, New Jersey, Maryland, Massachusetts, or some combination thereof. Then, the question before the court will not be one of rights, but of a restricted activity. That could set disastrous precedent for us. Like it or not, the Supreme Court decides what the 2nd Amendment means, and right now that's limited to the right to keep a handgun in the home, subject to fees, registration, and approval.
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November 23, 2011, 07:34 AM | #171 |
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For those who don't follow the news. Last night it came across on the banner at the bottom of the screen. The feds are suing UT as they did AL with regards to immigration laws enacted by the states preempting federal laws. Now lets put in the H.B.822 context Do you really think if a state just stops issuing CCW permits that the feds will bring a law suit against that state. I think not. It is already being talked about that if the current administration is re-elected that will be the time they go after the 2nd amendment with a vengeance. Again we are better off with out this bill so we will still have SCOTUS to go to. I still think that H.B. 822 will remove SCOTUS from the equation
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November 23, 2011, 10:53 AM | #172 |
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Good point about immigration law - the outcome of those cases could ultimately have an effect on how the fed tried to regulate gun laws - even without 822!
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November 23, 2011, 11:19 AM | #173 |
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It's been a fun debate. But a warning - do not use terms like 'libtards'.
We don't do childish partisan insults. Discuss the merits of the bill and practical details. GEM
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November 25, 2011, 04:06 AM | #174 |
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bump
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November 25, 2011, 11:04 AM | #175 |
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Good article! Just a warning - if you comment don't get into general politics or insults about this or that political issue.
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