Ever had a roll pin just go 'flyin' off the gun'?

VictorLouis · February 19, 2001, 06:21 PM

I took my CZ-85 in to have some Ashley's installed. Though it does basically drop in, the front blade is not pre-drilled to accept the retention roll pin.
My smith(a 1911 and Glock guy) asks how I like the pistol, which I praised. His only comment was how I should be careful, as he's seen those 'roll pins come flyin' off the gun'.(The front sight, and the firing pin safety.) I struggled not to LOL. I told him I'd keep an eye out for it.

How 'bout it George, or anyone else, have you seen this?

Badger Arms · February 19, 2001, 06:24 PM

You smith was on drugs. I suppose anything could happen, but you inspect your gun after each range session anyhow. The only pin I've ever seen come off a gun was on a Ruger GP-100 whose sight pin came out at a range session. Was on a friend's gun. That wasn't a roll pin. You have to try to get a roll pin out unless it isn't properly sized for the gun.

**Mike Irwin** · February 19, 2001, 10:54 PM

Cripes, I've never even seen a roll pin backing out of its hole...

I've seen that lots with standard pins, but not roll pins.

James K · February 20, 2001, 02:29 AM

Roll pins are used in part because they are self retaining. Assuming they are the right size, they are less likely to "fly off" than solid pins. Like many other things, though, they have been used where they should not have been; if a roll pin is crushed, it can break and "fly off", but I doubt that would happen on a front sight.

Jim

George Stringer · February 20, 2001, 08:39 AM

Victor, I've seen this occur a couple of times. Both that I remember were extractor pins that went through the top of the slide and both had the problem cured when the correct size roll pin was used. The pistols were a Norinco 214 and a Targa GT-380. George

**4V50 Gary** · February 20, 2001, 11:25 AM

Roll pins are constructed from spring steel and their expansive quality is what holds the item they secure in place. Once used, absent exigent circumstances, the roll pin should not be reused. We're talking about a fifty cent part and one's life is certainly worth more than that.

I've only seen a roll pin begin to walk once on a Sig P226. The roll pin in the slide which holds the breechblock in place began to walk out about 1/8". My classmate brought it to class the next day and I my hammer, roll pin punch and peening block. One whack fixed it and our instructor at the Advanced Officer Class, who was not LE, was aghast that we were playing gunsmiths during the break.

**Mike Irwin** · February 20, 2001, 12:20 PM

Other point about roll pins, one I learned the hard way...

You should use a special roll pin punch when installing them. Makes the process a lot easier.

VictorLouis · February 20, 2001, 05:22 PM

Hehehe, just as I thought. In retrospect, I have read of that occuring with the Sigs, as 4V50 described. But, it still gave you visual indication before it 'launched'.

Lefty · February 20, 2001, 06:09 PM

... if that model uses pins similar to the CZ-75B -- be aware -- while it may look like a "roll pin" from the axial view, it isn't a true roll pin. As others offered, true roll pins are rolled spring steel, and YES -- it is best to use a correct tool made for them.

In the -75B, what looks to be a roll pin is more like a standard dowel pin, but it has a small indent or dimple on each end that was flared out [peened] to hold it in place. One should use care when removing these and they should be flared slightly when re-installed. This type of pin could quite easy fly off to never-never-land if improperly reinstalled.

I could be off here ... but I think that's what was meant. Tight groups to all

!!

VictorLouis · February 21, 2001, 07:09 PM

Now I have to look at my other one when I get home! I thought that you can see light through it, meaning it's a roll pin. But, you've raised an interesting point.

ddc · February 25, 2001, 09:48 PM

Greetings,

This is a great site! This is my first post although I've been lurking for awhile now.

I'm interested in this thread as I just posted a question over on fnhipower.com (same handle "ddc") with respect to the pin that apparently holds on the right side of the BHP MKIII factory ambi safety. I got some good help there but wanted to follow it up a bit...

This is a stock pistol and while cleaning following my last range session I noticed the pin had drifted out to what I'm guessing is about one-third of it's length.

I tapped it back in with a makeshift "punch", it went back in so easily that it makes me uneasy.

I have several questions; I'm a total novice as far as gunsmithing is concerned so don't be afraid to explain in detail. :-)

1. Is this a "roll" pin?
2. Since it drifted out once; I'm assuming it will likely do so again unless I either replace it or use some locktite?
3. If you guy's were going to open up your Brownell's catalog and recommend a pin punch kit for general gunsmithing purposes do you have a specific suggestion?

Thanks a million,
Don.

Badger Arms · February 26, 2001, 03:03 AM

I don't think there are any roll-pins on the High Power. There are a couple of ways of correcting your pin problem. One is to put a little super glue or permanent locktite (can't remember color) on the tips of it. The other method I'll suggest is to stake the hole or center-punch directly next to the hole to push some metal into it. The glue method is the less-destructive one. Welcome to TFL.

George Stringer · February 26, 2001, 09:17 AM

DDC, the way I tighten loose pins is to take a cold chisel and make opposing slots in one end. Same theory as peening the hole but you are doing it to the pin and not the gun. George

February 19, 2001, 10:54 PM	#3
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Cripes, I've never even seen a roll pin backing out of its hole... I've seen that lots with standard pins, but not roll pins. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

February 20, 2001, 12:20 PM	#7
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Other point about roll pins, one I learned the hard way... You should use a special roll pin punch when installing them. Makes the process a lot easier. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

February 20, 2001, 06:09 PM	#9
Lefty Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2000 Location: Mass - the cradle of liberty!! Posts: 106	Uhhmmmm ... me thinks wrong term was used ... if that model uses pins similar to the CZ-75B -- be aware -- while it may look like a "roll pin" from the axial view, it isn't a true roll pin. As others offered, true roll pins are rolled spring steel, and YES -- it is best to use a correct tool made for them. In the -75B, what looks to be a roll pin is more like a standard dowel pin, but it has a small indent or dimple on each end that was flared out [peened] to hold it in place. One should use care when removing these and they should be flared slightly when re-installed. This type of pin could quite easy fly off to never-never-land if improperly reinstalled. I could be off here ... but I think that's what was meant. Tight groups to all !!

February 19, 2001, 06:21 PM	#1
VictorLouis Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2000 Location: Arizona Posts: 2,302	I took my CZ-85 in to have some Ashley's installed. Though it does basically drop in, the front blade is not pre-drilled to accept the retention roll pin. My smith(a 1911 and Glock guy) asks how I like the pistol, which I praised. His only comment was how I should be careful, as he's seen those 'roll pins come flyin' off the gun'.(The front sight, and the firing pin safety.) I struggled not to LOL. I told him I'd keep an eye out for it. How 'bout it George, or anyone else, have you seen this?

February 19, 2001, 06:24 PM	#2
Badger Arms Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2000 Location: Harnett County, NC Posts: 1,700	You smith was on drugs. I suppose anything could happen, but you inspect your gun after each range session anyhow. The only pin I've ever seen come off a gun was on a Ruger GP-100 whose sight pin came out at a range session. Was on a friend's gun. That wasn't a roll pin. You have to try to get a roll pin out unless it isn't properly sized for the gun.

February 20, 2001, 02:29 AM	#4
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Roll pins are used in part because they are self retaining. Assuming they are the right size, they are less likely to "fly off" than solid pins. Like many other things, though, they have been used where they should not have been; if a roll pin is crushed, it can break and "fly off", but I doubt that would happen on a front sight. Jim

February 20, 2001, 08:39 AM	#5
George Stringer Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Earlington KY Posts: 2,299	Victor, I've seen this occur a couple of times. Both that I remember were extractor pins that went through the top of the slide and both had the problem cured when the correct size roll pin was used. The pistols were a Norinco 214 and a Targa GT-380. George

February 20, 2001, 11:25 AM	#6
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,840	Roll pins are constructed from spring steel and their expansive quality is what holds the item they secure in place. Once used, absent exigent circumstances, the roll pin should not be reused. We're talking about a fifty cent part and one's life is certainly worth more than that. I've only seen a roll pin begin to walk once on a Sig P226. The roll pin in the slide which holds the breechblock in place began to walk out about 1/8". My classmate brought it to class the next day and I my hammer, roll pin punch and peening block. One whack fixed it and our instructor at the Advanced Officer Class, who was not LE, was aghast that we were playing gunsmiths during the break.

February 20, 2001, 05:22 PM	#8
VictorLouis Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2000 Location: Arizona Posts: 2,302	Hehehe, just as I thought. In retrospect, I have read of that occuring with the Sigs, as 4V50 described. But, it still gave you visual indication before it 'launched'.

February 21, 2001, 07:09 PM	#10
VictorLouis Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2000 Location: Arizona Posts: 2,302	Now I have to look at my other one when I get home! I thought that you can see light through it, meaning it's a roll pin. But, you've raised an interesting point.

February 25, 2001, 09:48 PM	#11
ddc Member Join Date: November 26, 2000 Location: PNW Posts: 83	Greetings, This is a great site! This is my first post although I've been lurking for awhile now. I'm interested in this thread as I just posted a question over on fnhipower.com (same handle "ddc") with respect to the pin that apparently holds on the right side of the BHP MKIII factory ambi safety. I got some good help there but wanted to follow it up a bit... This is a stock pistol and while cleaning following my last range session I noticed the pin had drifted out to what I'm guessing is about one-third of it's length. I tapped it back in with a makeshift "punch", it went back in so easily that it makes me uneasy. I have several questions; I'm a total novice as far as gunsmithing is concerned so don't be afraid to explain in detail. :-) 1. Is this a "roll" pin? 2. Since it drifted out once; I'm assuming it will likely do so again unless I either replace it or use some locktite? 3. If you guy's were going to open up your Brownell's catalog and recommend a pin punch kit for general gunsmithing purposes do you have a specific suggestion? Thanks a million, Don.

February 26, 2001, 03:03 AM	#12
Badger Arms Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2000 Location: Harnett County, NC Posts: 1,700	I don't think there are any roll-pins on the High Power. There are a couple of ways of correcting your pin problem. One is to put a little super glue or permanent locktite (can't remember color) on the tips of it. The other method I'll suggest is to stake the hole or center-punch directly next to the hole to push some metal into it. The glue method is the less-destructive one. Welcome to TFL.

February 26, 2001, 09:17 AM	#13
George Stringer Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Earlington KY Posts: 2,299	DDC, the way I tighten loose pins is to take a cold chisel and make opposing slots in one end. Same theory as peening the hole but you are doing it to the pin and not the gun. George