Disarming thoughts...

pax · December 8, 2002, 01:51 PM

Hi Guys,

Just got a new toy to play with: an aluminum dummy gun, to practice disarms and retentions.

All right, I've got a willing buddy, and an appropriate tool. We can both wear gloves, and we've both been through a class which covered disarms and retentions.

But ...

I don't have a lot of faith in some of the techniques. In some cases, I know I'm not doing 'em right yet, so will have to practice practice practice at slower speeds. That's ok. But some of them seem to me as if they wouldn't work at full speed, against an opponent bigger and stronger than I am. I don't know that, since they can't be done at full speed lest my buddy and I break each other's arms. Still, it worries me that I don't have much confidence in the techniques. If confidence in the techniques is warranted (people I trust tell me it is), how would you go about building more confidence?

Related: some of the techniques (the LFI 'destructive disarm' for example) just about have to be done at full speed in order to be practiced at all. But I don't want to break anyone's bones merely in order to give myself some confidence or in order to build in the muscle memory.

Is there a better way?

pax

If you make every game a life and death proposition, you're going to have problems. For one thing, you'll be dead a lot. -- Dean Smith

gryphon · December 8, 2002, 06:48 PM

This is just my thought on the subject, others will probably differ, and some may not agree. Here goes-->

I find that the more complex a defensive manuever gets, the less confidence people have in them. I've always noticed that the best boxers, martial artists, street fighters all seem to be doing one thing. KEEPING IT SIMPLE. Rarely in sparring have I ever needed, nor had the desire to do anything "fancy". Jabs, straight punches, hooks, elbows and non-spinning kicks. Most of the bets fighters that I have ever seen have all done this. I'm not saying that you should not learn the "advanced techniques" or more complex moves, locks, disarms, whatever. It just seems that even after they learn all that, they still come back to the basics.

I know of disarms and whatnot for various weapons including knife, sticks, and firearms.

I'm thinking that if you have to go through a range of motion that will cause someone to suffer from a broken arm, it might be a little too complex for serious use. I do not know what your experience is in fighting/disarming, but if your gut is telling you that it will not work, then it just might not. Also, if you do not have confidence in what you are practicing, it could be a detriment to you. You will not put your heart into it if you ever need to employ it.

For me not being there is #1, #2 is sticking with the quick, simple disarm, nothing complex.

C.R.Sam · December 8, 2002, 07:01 PM

Caution Pax.
Some of the effective disarms are quite likely to inflict damage upon the one being disarmed. Practice with a pro if possible.

One quickie....trigger guard on practice gun can remove finger..

When all other hope is lost, a disarm CAN work.

No guarentees tho.

Sam

NMGlocker · December 8, 2002, 07:24 PM

The rubber training guns, with the trigger gaurd removed are the best for disarm training.
Gabe Suarez showed us a few simple effective disarms at his class, that can be trained at full speed without damaging your partner. I found them easy to use, and quite effective, even against someone who knew what you were going to attempt.

KSFreeman · December 8, 2002, 08:06 PM

Cut the trigger guard off. I prefer the rubber guns.

Sam I Am is right about fingers. Still feel bad about that dealer at the show in Indy.

December 8, 2002, 07:24 PM	#4
NMGlocker Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2001 Location: New Mexico Posts: 371	The rubber training guns, with the trigger gaurd removed are the best for disarm training. Gabe Suarez showed us a few simple effective disarms at his class, that can be trained at full speed without damaging your partner. I found them easy to use, and quite effective, even against someone who knew what you were going to attempt. __________________ Diplomacy is the art of saying "nice doggy"....until you can pick up a stick.

December 8, 2002, 08:06 PM	#5
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,418	Cut the trigger guard off. I prefer the rubber guns. Sam I Am is right about fingers. Still feel bad about that dealer at the show in Indy. __________________ "Arguments of policy must give way to a constitutional command." Payton v. New York, 445 U.S. 573, 602 (1980).

December 8, 2002, 01:51 PM	#1
pax Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: In a state of flux Posts: 7,520	Disarming thoughts... Hi Guys, Just got a new toy to play with: an aluminum dummy gun, to practice disarms and retentions. All right, I've got a willing buddy, and an appropriate tool. We can both wear gloves, and we've both been through a class which covered disarms and retentions. But ... I don't have a lot of faith in some of the techniques. In some cases, I know I'm not doing 'em right yet, so will have to practice practice practice at slower speeds. That's ok. But some of them seem to me as if they wouldn't work at full speed, against an opponent bigger and stronger than I am. I don't know that, since they can't be done at full speed lest my buddy and I break each other's arms. Still, it worries me that I don't have much confidence in the techniques. If confidence in the techniques is warranted (people I trust tell me it is), how would you go about building more confidence? Related: some of the techniques (the LFI 'destructive disarm' for example) just about have to be done at full speed in order to be practiced at all. But I don't want to break anyone's bones merely in order to give myself some confidence or in order to build in the muscle memory. Is there a better way? pax If you make every game a life and death proposition, you're going to have problems. For one thing, you'll be dead a lot. -- Dean Smith

December 8, 2002, 06:48 PM	#2
gryphon Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2000 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,069	This is just my thought on the subject, others will probably differ, and some may not agree. Here goes--> I find that the more complex a defensive manuever gets, the less confidence people have in them. I've always noticed that the best boxers, martial artists, street fighters all seem to be doing one thing. KEEPING IT SIMPLE. Rarely in sparring have I ever needed, nor had the desire to do anything "fancy". Jabs, straight punches, hooks, elbows and non-spinning kicks. Most of the bets fighters that I have ever seen have all done this. I'm not saying that you should not learn the "advanced techniques" or more complex moves, locks, disarms, whatever. It just seems that even after they learn all that, they still come back to the basics. I know of disarms and whatnot for various weapons including knife, sticks, and firearms. I'm thinking that if you have to go through a range of motion that will cause someone to suffer from a broken arm, it might be a little too complex for serious use. I do not know what your experience is in fighting/disarming, but if your gut is telling you that it will not work, then it just might not. Also, if you do not have confidence in what you are practicing, it could be a detriment to you. You will not put your heart into it if you ever need to employ it. For me not being there is #1, #2 is sticking with the quick, simple disarm, nothing complex. __________________ Your suffering will be legendary, even in HELL!! --- PinHead, HellRaiser 2

December 8, 2002, 07:01 PM	#3
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Caution Pax. Some of the effective disarms are quite likely to inflict damage upon the one being disarmed. Practice with a pro if possible. One quickie....trigger guard on practice gun can remove finger.. When all other hope is lost, a disarm CAN work. No guarentees tho. Sam