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Old August 31, 2008, 01:44 PM   #1
HorseshoerJT
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Misfires

HELP. O.K. I have been reloading for over35 years. Never had this happen. Got my new T.C. back. 30/30 from Bullberry. This gun shoot's factory ammo every time. When trying to shoot my reload's, I get two out of three misfire's. Not even a spark. Do I have a weak spring? Does'nt make sense to fire factory load's, and not reload's. I have tried Rem. 9 1/2, CCI large rifle, and CCI Mag primer's. Help Help Help Thank you
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Old August 31, 2008, 02:46 PM   #2
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did you try putting them back in an striking them again?If its a light strike they will usally go off the second time you strike them.what kind of primers are they cci,s are known for being a little tuffer.
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Old August 31, 2008, 03:07 PM   #3
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Misfires

Yes, I tried them three time's. They shot well through my son's rifle. I should also mention tha the empty case's with just a primer, fired every time.
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Old August 31, 2008, 04:02 PM   #4
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Three things come to mind right off. Since this gun is single-loading only, neck size only. By using a fireformed cartridge, you will headspace on the shoulder and the taper of the sides, and not the rim. That will guarantee the primer is as close to the firing pin tunnel as it can get, and excess headspace won't let the cartridge absorb the firing pin strike by moving forward. In the standard TC and Encore actions, the hammer blow is not going to be as strong a strike as the firing pin in a bolt gun, so you want all the help you can give it.

Second, don't let the primer itself absorb firing pin energy by have the firing pin complete its seating. When you seat your primers be sure they have bottomed out in the primer pocket before finishing loading. If you have difficulty telling, K&M's Markel priming tool offers the best feel in this regard. An alternative method is to seat the primer with a Forster/Bonanza Co-ax press or with their priming tool. These items use a priming ram that force the face of the primer 0.004" below flush with the face of the casehead.

Third, don't use primers with heavier cups in external hammer actions. CCI are known for hard cups. Get some Federal 210's and see if they don't light more consistently for you?
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Old August 31, 2008, 05:24 PM   #5
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I think you need to try something besides CCI primers. when I first started fireforming and loading for 7 TCU I had a lot of misfires using CCI primers. the problems went away when I switched over to Remington or Federal primers.
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Old August 31, 2008, 05:24 PM   #6
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Like Unclenick says, neck size only and your problems will go away. I have my dies adjusted so the the action closes snug. The misfire will go away. You need to incorporate this loading technique in all TC guns regardless of case design. They'll shoot a lot straighter and most issues disappear. Case life is longer too.
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Old August 31, 2008, 05:31 PM   #7
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Misfires

Gentlemen, Thank you for the help. I am about at witt's end. The people at Bullberry tell me I have to full length size? I am changing primer's as we speak. Also, I put a thumb assist on the hammer, which seemed to enhance the problem. Now using Rem 91/2 primer, because it is what I have. Will try that, and let you know. Took thumb assist off. Going to the range tomorrow. Thank's again.
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Old August 31, 2008, 05:38 PM   #8
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Thumb assist adds mass to the hammer, which slows it down. Good move to remove it.

I have no clue why Bullberry thinks they make the only chamber in the world that needs full-length resizing for single loading? If they have a cogent explanation, I'd be interested to hear it? If you shoot maximum loads all the time you may find the cases tighten up and you occasionally need to size the body so the action closes properly, but only a little. Maybe set the shoulder back 0.002". That's all it takes. Do be sure the action is always closing completely, but otherwise there is nothing special to look out for.
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Old August 31, 2008, 10:43 PM   #9
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I have seen alot of misfires lately with the CCI primers and seating depth problems with them. I would try a different primer and see how it works. I switched to Federal primers and havnt had a problem since. Seems that CCI is using a harder cup material than the others and causing light firing pin strikes that will not allow the anvil to make contact to detonate the charge.
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Old September 1, 2008, 11:34 AM   #10
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You clearly have excessive headspace. This is not a primer or firing pin problem. And you do need to full length size your cases.
Using a common set of feeler gauges you first determine what the gap is between your barrel and frame's breechface by closing the barrel on successively thicker blades placed in front of the plug in the breechface until you find the blade that is gripped by the closed barrel. The thickness of the thinner blade just below the one that is tight in the gap is the gap's measurement you use. Make note of this amount.

If you use the barrel on more than one frame, you should make a note of the serial number of that frame since the barrel-to-frame gap will vary some from one barrel to the next.

I usually scribe or stamp the barrel-to-frame gap on the bottom of the barrel lug for reference later when switching from frame to frame or as a means of monitoring a frame for signs of stretching. An increasing barrel-to-frame gap is an indication metal is moving, meaning the frame is stretching.

The barrel-to-frame gap measurement must be taken at a point directly above the chamber, between the firing pin bushing and the end of the barrel. Because the firing pin bushing sticks out of the frame a few thousandths, you cannot slide the blade in. You must close the barrel on the blade.

The thinnest blade in most feeler guage sets is .0015," while some go to .001." If the barrel closes on the thinnest blade, call the gap Zero.

If there is too much space between the case head and the breechface there are ways to correct it. This can occur with factory ammo, new brass, or brass that has had the shoulders pushed back too far.

You want to full length resize your cases so that there is a .001" gap between the case head and breech face. Adjust your die so that it will push the shoulder back to get the correct gap. I use a dial indicator to get this gap of .001".
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Old September 2, 2008, 01:45 AM   #11
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Misfire's

Gentlemen, Went to the smithy today, had pistol checked out. Just for ease of mind. Eveything good. Changed primer's, from CCI to Rem. Went to range. Not one misfire. Shot 1.5 inch group at 100. Not bad for first real session. Now I am on my way. Start fine tuning my load's. One handed deer slayer in the wood's. I can't thank you guy's enough. Jeff
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Old September 2, 2008, 06:56 AM   #12
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Your smith did not solve the problem. All he did was tell you to change to a softer primer. You will still likely have a misfire eventually. I just hope you don`t have one when a deer shows up when you use your "deerslayer".
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Old September 2, 2008, 09:04 AM   #13
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Misfire's

WSM Magnum' Are you saying I am not pushing the shoulder back far enough? If so, I am going for feeler gauge as soon as you reply. I did not realize I should go past a normal set up?
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Old September 2, 2008, 09:27 AM   #14
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I likewise had problems with CCI primers in magnum handguns, Winchester primers cured the problems, no misfires now.
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Old September 2, 2008, 09:39 AM   #15
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Misfire's

WSM Magnum, After talking to the barrel maker, I agree with you completely. Not being use to full length sizing, I did'nt realize how critical headspace was, especially this barrel. I know I have not been consistent in my sizing procedure. Also have been treating my new toy with kid glove's. Possible not closing gun properly. Also after talking to barrel maker, I might not have seated the other primer's properly. But I still think it is the way I was sizing. Will get back to you after next batch of reload's. Thank you Jeff
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Old September 2, 2008, 08:05 PM   #16
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This is the headspace you want to have when you size your cases. You want the case head to be .001" from the breechface to the case.




http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...1&d=1176427847
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Old September 2, 2008, 09:49 PM   #17
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tc misfire

I just took my new to me, t c contender out yesterday to sight in my 35 rem barrel with a new scope. The same thing happened to me. I had 3 out of 12 of my reloaded 35 rems fire. These were also loaded with cci primers. After reading your post I went down and primed 3 cases with win primers. All three fired without a hitch. You have convinced me that I will not use cci primers for my contender loads again. Thanks for the info.
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Old September 2, 2008, 10:22 PM   #18
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I knew it because I have been having the same problem with the CCI primers. Switched to Federals and havnt had a problem after thousands of rounds. CCI primers are just too hard for some guns and I own one of them.
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Old September 3, 2008, 07:36 AM   #19
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For the Contender, you DO need to full-length size cases to avoid getting misfires. Over-long cases interfere with the closing of the action and affect primer strike. How far you set the shoulder back is determined by the length you need to get the proper headspace in each barrel. See the article at

http://www.bellmtcs.com/FAQ/contender_misfires.htm

Also, there is a wealth of useful info on loading Contenders at

http://www.bellmtcs.com/TOC.htm

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Old September 3, 2008, 08:32 AM   #20
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Here is what you need to do to correct misfire problems. If you correct the headspace, you can use any brand of primer you want. In fact, check out Bellm`s whole website.
Going to a softer primer is not really solving the problem. You absolutely need to know what your barrel to frame gap is, then take measures from there to correct the headspace.
Horseshoer, Bullberry is one of the manufacturers that make high end barrels for T/C`s. MGM is another top T/C barrel maker.

http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=172

If you are really into T/C guns, check out Otter Stocks for really custom grips and fore ends. Look at all the the beautiful barrels too.

http://www.muttmotorpool.com/contender.html
http://www.olegeorgiajim.com/
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Old September 3, 2008, 12:07 PM   #21
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Quote:
For the Contender, you DO need to full-length size cases to avoid getting misfires. Over-long cases interfere with the closing of the action and affect primer strike.
News to me... I have loaded many rounds to be a "crush fit" to the chamber and have not experienced misfires. Even with CCI primers. A long case can interfer with the closing of the action however the result is generally that the gun cannot even be cocked.


I seem to be hearing things here that seem opposite to common sense. As a general rule neck sizing vs FL sizing should not effect the heaspace of a "rimmed" cartridge except that neck sizing may cause the cartridge to headspace on the shoulder instead of the rim on a "loose" chamber. That would in effect "reduce" headspace.
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Old September 3, 2008, 03:55 PM   #22
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Dakotashooter2,

The Contender action springs a lot when fired with a high-pressure cartridge. It can quickly allow the cases to get too long to allow FULL lock-up in this break-action. The crush-fit techinque tends to make misfires and wear the locking mechanism from firing with the lock-up not quite tight.

The .30-30 round normally does not have as high-pressure as the .30 Herrett that I am shooting, but I have found that the advice at Mike Bellm's site is right-on for my Contender. There is a lot written about how the action should "sound" when you close it, but Bellm says not to rely on that and to measure the headspace, and I agree. When I have it measuring as he recommends, it does make a metallic ringing when closed, instead of a clunk. That has been an improvement to my accuracy, and I guess my Contender frame's life expectancy.

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Old September 7, 2008, 02:49 PM   #23
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hmm thats pretty much what I said
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