Heavy bullets in Savage Axis 2, .223 Rem

pathdoc · June 13, 2014, 06:28 AM

Going projectile shopping soon and would love to hear what's the heaviest I should go for and what won't work.

IIRC the rifle has a 1:9 twist.

jwrowland77 · June 13, 2014, 06:46 AM

Really depends on length of bullet. These links will help.

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

http://www.jbmballistics.com/ballist...ngths/lengths#

**Unclenick** · June 13, 2014, 08:23 AM

In general, with pointy boattail shapes, in good weather, the 69 grain general match bullet shape and the 77 grain Sierra and Nosler match bullets, which are stubby to fit a loaded round in a magazine, are at about at the limit for a 9" twist. And that's shooting in good weather or at a few thousand feet above sea level. These work out in some guns and not others. You want a really perfect muzzle crown shooting them from a 9" twist. If you try to go for 80 gain HP BT's or VLD shapes, you will likely be out of luck and get wide groups or keyholing. You should avoid solid construction bullets as copper is less dense than lead, so these bullets are longer for their weight, making them harder to stabilize than conventionally constructed bullets with the same nose and tail shape.

However, flat base bullets and round nose flat base bullets of conventional construction, especially, are short for their weight, and will let you get heavier with your selection, if you find some. With a 9" twist, I won't be surprised if you discover flat base, Spitzer nose bullets with weights in the mid-60's shoot best, like the Berger 64 grain flat base Spitzer bullet.

Jim243 · June 13, 2014, 03:45 PM

Quote:

IIRC the rifle has a 1:9 twist.

Hornady 75 Grain A-Max Stock #22792

Works exceptional well in a 1:9 twist.

Jim

pathdoc · June 13, 2014, 05:32 PM

Thanks all for info so far. I'm not particularly interested in the 75gn-plus region anyway; that's for target work at ranges far longer than anything I'll be shooting at for quite a while, and if I get into that game I'll be after something more specialised than an off-the-shelf hunting rifle.

Putting it all together from my readings and your info here, it sounds like lead-cored bullets up to sixty-ish grains and copper solids below fifty (if I go there at all) are probably the best place to stop.

Jay24bal · June 13, 2014, 10:39 PM

I reload for my .223 Axis, and have had great results with both 52 and 69 grain Sierra Match Kings. I have not tried anything heavier, but the 1:9 barrel on my Axis has no problems with the 69s.

Marco Califo · June 13, 2014, 11:30 PM

I shoot my Axis at 400 yard steel plates with Hornady 75 gr HPBT (Not the A-max) Hornady #: 2279. These bullet stabilize very well in 1:9 twist. IIRC the bullet is shorter than the same weight Amax, which the stability calculator said would not reliably stabilize in a 1:9" This bullet will stabilize according to the calculator, and also my experience. The Axis shoots just fine at long range but the barrel gets hot very fast on mine.
To use the calculator (link Below)
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi
you will also need to know the bullet length
http://www.jbmballistics.com/ballist.../lengths.shtml

Adamantium · June 16, 2014, 05:43 PM

I wouldn't recommend going about 69gr OTM bullets. Some 1:9 barrels will stabilize the 75gr and 77gr bullets that were meant for magazine length but not every barrel will.

Shooting heavy .224 bullets is far more about perception than it is performance. The difference in trajectory between a 69gr SMK and a 77gr SMK is a game of inches even at hundreds of yards, with the lighter bullet dropping less and the heavier bullet drifting less. For competition shooters who shoot an known distances the bullet that is less effected by the wind is more desirable. But for everyone who shoots a 75/77gr bullet because it offers then some advantage there must be 20 people shooting them simply because their rifle (mostly ARs) are capable of stabilizing them.

Marco Califo · June 16, 2014, 10:55 PM

The Savage Axis chamber and magazine accommodate an OAL of 2.4
I put a Hornady 75 gr BTHP into a sized 5.56 case and loaded it into my chamber and closed the bolt on my factory Edge/Axis. Ejected the round and it measures 2.420". Probably not a coincidence, this length DOES just fit into the Savage Axis detachable magazine. This is longer than the COAL Sierra lists for their 69 gr SMK of 2.26". However, it is shorther than the COAL Sierra gives for the 80 gr SMK of 2.55".
Accurate's load data for 223 Remington (Custom Long Throat) are all just under 2.55".

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=537290

pathdoc · June 17, 2014, 05:37 PM

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

I ended up staying at 55gn or below on this trip, mostly because it was the majority of what the store had, but also because I had already bought a fair bit of FMJ factory stuff for "getting-to-know-you" type shooting and for the brass, and for reloading I felt it more appropriate to stick with bullets that are legal for hunting where I am (FMJ are prohibited AFAIK).

I might try going up to 70gn-ish if they happen to have stuff on the shelf next time round, but I don't anticipate doing much if any match shooting with this rifle just yet and I've got my work cut out for me right now, so there doesn't seem much point at the moment to get any ordered in specially.

June 13, 2014, 06:28 AM	#1
pathdoc Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2013 Posts: 669	Heavy bullets in Savage Axis 2, .223 Rem Going projectile shopping soon and would love to hear what's the heaviest I should go for and what won't work. IIRC the rifle has a 1:9 twist.

June 13, 2014, 08:23 AM	#3
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	In general, with pointy boattail shapes, in good weather, the 69 grain general match bullet shape and the 77 grain Sierra and Nosler match bullets, which are stubby to fit a loaded round in a magazine, are at about at the limit for a 9" twist. And that's shooting in good weather or at a few thousand feet above sea level. These work out in some guns and not others. You want a really perfect muzzle crown shooting them from a 9" twist. If you try to go for 80 gain HP BT's or VLD shapes, you will likely be out of luck and get wide groups or keyholing. You should avoid solid construction bullets as copper is less dense than lead, so these bullets are longer for their weight, making them harder to stabilize than conventionally constructed bullets with the same nose and tail shape. However, flat base bullets and round nose flat base bullets of conventional construction, especially, are short for their weight, and will let you get heavier with your selection, if you find some. With a 9" twist, I won't be surprised if you discover flat base, Spitzer nose bullets with weights in the mid-60's shoot best, like the Berger 64 grain flat base Spitzer bullet. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

June 13, 2014, 10:39 PM	#6
Jay24bal Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2011 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 735	I reload for my .223 Axis, and have had great results with both 52 and 69 grain Sierra Match Kings. I have not tried anything heavier, but the 1:9 barrel on my Axis has no problems with the 69s. __________________ I like guns. Once Fired Brass, Top quality, Fast shipping, Best prices. http://300AacBrass.com/ -10% Coupon use code " Jay24bal "

June 13, 2014, 11:30 PM	#7
Marco Califo Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2011 Location: LA (Greater Los Angeles Area) Posts: 2,598	I shoot my Axis at 400 yard steel plates with Hornady 75 gr HPBT (Not the A-max) Hornady #: 2279. These bullet stabilize very well in 1:9 twist. IIRC the bullet is shorter than the same weight Amax, which the stability calculator said would not reliably stabilize in a 1:9" This bullet will stabilize according to the calculator, and also my experience. The Axis shoots just fine at long range but the barrel gets hot very fast on mine. To use the calculator (link Below) http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi you will also need to know the bullet length http://www.jbmballistics.com/ballist.../lengths.shtml __________________ ............

June 16, 2014, 05:43 PM	#8
Adamantium Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 1999 Location: El Paso, TX Posts: 1,021	I wouldn't recommend going about 69gr OTM bullets. Some 1:9 barrels will stabilize the 75gr and 77gr bullets that were meant for magazine length but not every barrel will. Shooting heavy .224 bullets is far more about perception than it is performance. The difference in trajectory between a 69gr SMK and a 77gr SMK is a game of inches even at hundreds of yards, with the lighter bullet dropping less and the heavier bullet drifting less. For competition shooters who shoot an known distances the bullet that is less effected by the wind is more desirable. But for everyone who shoots a 75/77gr bullet because it offers then some advantage there must be 20 people shooting them simply because their rifle (mostly ARs) are capable of stabilizing them. __________________ New gun, same ol' shot.

June 13, 2014, 06:46 AM	#2
jwrowland77 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2012 Location: Conway, Arkansas Posts: 1,398	Really depends on length of bullet. These links will help. http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi http://www.jbmballistics.com/ballist...ngths/lengths#

June 13, 2014, 05:32 PM	#5
pathdoc Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2013 Posts: 669	Thanks all for info so far. I'm not particularly interested in the 75gn-plus region anyway; that's for target work at ranges far longer than anything I'll be shooting at for quite a while, and if I get into that game I'll be after something more specialised than an off-the-shelf hunting rifle. Putting it all together from my readings and your info here, it sounds like lead-cored bullets up to sixty-ish grains and copper solids below fifty (if I go there at all) are probably the best place to stop.

June 16, 2014, 10:55 PM	#9
Marco Califo Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2011 Location: LA (Greater Los Angeles Area) Posts: 2,598	The Savage Axis chamber and magazine accommodate an OAL of 2.4 I put a Hornady 75 gr BTHP into a sized 5.56 case and loaded it into my chamber and closed the bolt on my factory Edge/Axis. Ejected the round and it measures 2.420". Probably not a coincidence, this length DOES just fit into the Savage Axis detachable magazine. This is longer than the COAL Sierra lists for their 69 gr SMK of 2.26". However, it is shorther than the COAL Sierra gives for the 80 gr SMK of 2.55". Accurate's load data for 223 Remington (Custom Long Throat) are all just under 2.55". http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=537290 __________________ ............

June 17, 2014, 05:37 PM	#10
pathdoc Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2013 Posts: 669	Thanks for the advice, everyone. I ended up staying at 55gn or below on this trip, mostly because it was the majority of what the store had, but also because I had already bought a fair bit of FMJ factory stuff for "getting-to-know-you" type shooting and for the brass, and for reloading I felt it more appropriate to stick with bullets that are legal for hunting where I am (FMJ are prohibited AFAIK). I might try going up to 70gn-ish if they happen to have stuff on the shelf next time round, but I don't anticipate doing much if any match shooting with this rifle just yet and I've got my work cut out for me right now, so there doesn't seem much point at the moment to get any ordered in specially.