Dazed and confused....please help

[icedog88]

This started out with wanting to buy a Bushmaster carbon 15 Type 97 pistol. Perusing CT law, I came upon Sec. 53-202a which states in part, Assault weapons banned blah blah and the following specified semiautomatic firearms:Bushmaster Auto Rifle and Auto pistol. LGS was contacted and until they get confirmation they can't order it. I understand their part. It does not have the evil features associated with an assault weapon according to state law. Contacted Bushmaster, waiting to hear back. Meantime, long story short, anyone else I should contact? The law itself is very contradictory. It is perfectly legal for me to own a Stag Arms AR 15 (which I do), which has the identical features of a Bushmaster which is banned! Also a Colt AR is banned but not a DPMS! Is this legal for them to do? Ban one company from doing business while allowing other companies to sell the same products? ANY advice is greatly appreciated as this has %#$@ed me off to the highest of %#$@edtivity! Thanks

[Aguila Blanca]

The law itself is very contradictory. It is perfectly legal for me to own a Stag Arms AR 15 (which I do), which has the identical features of a Bushmaster which is banned!

You are in Connecticut, one of the states that still has its own version of an AWB on the books. Any AR-15 pattern rifle or carbine you can purchase in Connecticut is "neutered." You can't have a bayonet lug (gotta prevent those drive-by bayonettings), and you can't have a flash hider. The Connecticut AWB also bans a number of specific make/model combinations by name -- which is why, for example, Colt immediately came out with a "civilian" model with a different name, no bayonet lug, and no flash hider. I assume Bushmaster did the same, because I have friends in Connecticut who own Bushmasters.

Stag ARs are made in Connecticut (as you probably know), but any Connecticut-legal Stag AR is a special order from the factory because of the non-standard configuration.

The law says what the law says. It seems to say (according to you) that Bushmaster auto pistols are banned. What's contradictory about that? You can't buy it in Connecticut.

Aren't there other manufacturers of the AR pistol? Are they ALL banned in the law you cited?

[icedog88]

I say contradictory because all that info is in the same statute. Am I just reading it wrong? What is the difference between a Stag and Colt? Nothing except name . The law says I can't own a Bushmaster pistol because it falls under an "assault" weapon, but yet it doesn't meet their own definition of assault weapon. That's about as contradictory as it gets, no? I had been looking for this style pistol and so far this one was the only one I found that met the state's definition of pistol. The others were too heavy, had forestock, threaded barrels, so this was it! My Shangri-La! Now I can't have it cause some oxygen thief / waste of perfectly good skin decides it looks evil.

[Aguila Blanca]

Connecticut's AWB was enacted about the same time as the now-expired Federal AWB. As you have touched on, these laws were not written by people who knew anything about firearms, so they were indeed written on the basis of what looked and/or sounded "scary." So an AK-47 with a detachable magazine is an "assault weapon," but a lever action .30-30 with a tubular magazine isn't. Nor is an SKS, that takes the same round as the AK-47 but doesn't have a detachable magazine. Eminently logical ... unless you know anything about GUNZ!

The Connecticut law is not contradictory. It bans certain firearms specifically by name, and then it goes on to list those characteristics that ban other, unnamed, firearms that are similar to those listed by name.

[icedog88]

Not true IMO. Respectfully disagree because if the law tells me that the characteristics of an assault weapon are as follows and lists them, the weapon that I want doesn't have those same characteristics, but they name it specifically because they say it's an assault weapon, that's contradictory no? Then their definition is not really defining. Trust me, I'm not arguing with you, I just need to understand. LOL a little extreme, but the way i see it: you want to put a slip and slide in your backyard, the law says no rollercoasters, gives you the definition of a rollercoaster which the slip and slide clearly doesn't meet, then tells you that you cant have one cuz it's a rollercoaster by their definition! lol

[Aguila Blanca]

Either you want to understand, in which case you pay attention, or you want to argue ... in which case you continue to insist that a law that is NOT contradictory is contradictory.

The Connecticut statute you cited reads, in full:

Sec. 53-202a. Assault weapons: Definition. (a) As used in this section and sections 53-202b to 53-202k, inclusive, "assault weapon" means:

(1) Any selective-fire firearm capable of fully automatic, semiautomatic or burst fire at the option of the user or any of the following specified semiautomatic firearms: Algimec Agmi; Armalite AR-180; Australian Automatic Arms SAP Pistol; Auto-Ordnance Thompson type; Avtomat Kalashnikov AK-47 type; Barrett Light-Fifty model 82A1; Beretta AR-70; Bushmaster Auto Rifle and Auto Pistol; Calico models M-900, M-950 and 100-P; Chartered Industries of Singapore SR-88; Colt AR-15 and Sporter; Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max-1 and Max-2; Encom MK-IV, MP-9 and MP-45; Fabrique Nationale FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FN/FNC; FAMAS MAS 223; Feather AT-9 and Mini-AT; Federal XC-900 and XC-450; Franchi SPAS-12 and LAW-12; Galil AR and ARM; Goncz High-Tech Carbine and High-Tech Long Pistol; Heckler & Koch HK-91, HK-93, HK-94 and SP-89; Holmes MP-83; MAC-10, MAC-11 and MAC-11 Carbine type; Intratec TEC-9 and Scorpion; Iver Johnson Enforcer model 3000; Ruger Mini-14/5F folding stock model only; Scarab Skorpion; SIG 57 AMT and 500 series; Spectre Auto Carbine and Auto Pistol; Springfield Armory BM59, SAR-48 and G-3; Sterling MK-6 and MK-7; Steyr AUG; Street Sweeper and Striker 12 revolving cylinder shotguns; USAS-12; UZI Carbine, Mini-Carbine and Pistol; Weaver Arms Nighthawk; Wilkinson "Linda" Pistol;

(2) A part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault weapon, as defined in subdivision (1) of this subsection, or any combination of parts from which an assault weapon, as defined in subdivision (1) of this subsection, may be rapidly assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person;

(3) Any semiautomatic firearm not listed in subdivision (1) of this subsection that meets the following criteria:

(A) A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following:

(i) A folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(iii) A bayonet mount;

(iv) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and

(v) A grenade launcher; or

(B) A semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following:

(i) An ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;

(ii) A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip or silencer;

(iii) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;

(iv) A manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and

(v) A semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm; or

(C) A semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following:

(i) A folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(iii) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds; and

(iv) An ability to accept a detachable magazine; or

(4) A part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault weapon, as defined in subdivision (3) of this subsection, or any combination of parts from which an assault weapon, as defined in subdivision (3) of this subsection, may be rapidly assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

(b) As used in this section and sections 53-202b to 53-202k, inclusive, the term "assault weapon" does not include any firearm modified to render it permanently inoperable.

(P.A. 93-306, S. 1; P.A. 01-130, S. 1.)

Let's take it from the top. Paragraph (1) says:

(1) Any selective-fire firearm capable of fully automatic, semiautomatic or burst fire at the option of the user or any of the following specified semiautomatic firearms: Algimec Agmi; Armalite AR-180; Australian Automatic Arms SAP Pistol; Auto-Ordnance Thompson type; Avtomat Kalashnikov AK-47 type; Barrett Light-Fifty model 82A1; Beretta AR-70; Bushmaster Auto Rifle and Auto Pistol; Calico models M-900, M-950 and 100-P; Chartered Industries of Singapore SR-88; Colt AR-15 and Sporter; Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max-1 and Max-2; Encom MK-IV, MP-9 and MP-45; Fabrique Nationale FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FN/FNC; FAMAS MAS 223; Feather AT-9 and Mini-AT; Federal XC-900 and XC-450; Franchi SPAS-12 and LAW-12; Galil AR and ARM; Goncz High-Tech Carbine and High-Tech Long Pistol; Heckler & Koch HK-91, HK-93, HK-94 and SP-89; Holmes MP-83; MAC-10, MAC-11 and MAC-11 Carbine type; Intratec TEC-9 and Scorpion; Iver Johnson Enforcer model 3000; Ruger Mini-14/5F folding stock model only; Scarab Skorpion; SIG 57 AMT and 500 series; Spectre Auto Carbine and Auto Pistol; Springfield Armory BM59, SAR-48 and G-3; Sterling MK-6 and MK-7; Steyr AUG; Street Sweeper and Striker 12 revolving cylinder shotguns; USAS-12; UZI Carbine, Mini-Carbine and Pistol; Weaver Arms Nighthawk; Wilkinson "Linda" Pistol;

The opening clause covers true assault rifles -- those with a selector switch. Then it says "OR" ... and it follows with a list of specific weapons that are prohibited.

Paragraph (2) says it is also prohibited to possess parts that are designed or intended to convert a weapon into an "assault weapon."

And then Paragraph (3) goes on to enumerate when a firearm that is not listed by name in Paragraph (1) might still be considered an assault weapon:

(3) Any semiautomatic firearm not listed in subdivision (1) of this subsection that meets the following criteria:

(A) A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following:

(i) A folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(iii) A bayonet mount;

(iv) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and

(v) A grenade launcher; or

(B) A semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following:

(i) An ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;

(ii) A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip or silencer;

(iii) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;

(iv) A manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and

(v) A semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm; or

(C) A semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following:

(i) A folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(iii) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds; and

(iv) An ability to accept a detachable magazine; or

There is nothing contradictory. If a firearm is named on the list in paragraph (1) it is an assault weapon, OR if it meets the physical characteristics in paragraph (3), it is an assault weapon.

With that established ... what Bushmaster do you want to buy, exactly? Is it the exact model to which the law refers? Remember, the law was written in 1993. What was Bushmaster making in 1993 that was called an "Auto Pistol"? That is what's banned in Connecticut, not all Bushmaster products. I know a gunshop owner in Connecticut and I know he sells Bushmaster AR-15s. He's an ex-cop, and I'm sure he doesn't play fast and loose with the laws. Whatever models Bushmaster offers today in Connecticut obviously aren't called "Auto Rifle," so they aren't banned. Similarly, Colt can't sell an AR-15 in Connecticut if it's named "Sporter," but if it's named "9427XYZ" it's perfectly legal (as long as it doesn't run afoul of Paragraph (3) ).

[thallub]

Deleted.

[icedog88]

Nope, only weighs 48 oz! lol. Does not have the threaded barrel, no forestock, no stock, barrel is 7.25 inches, no selective fire. So, by the states own definition, it is not an assault weapon. Only by it's name is it banned. Oh, no bayonet lug for those nasty drive-by javelin tosses.

[thallub]

http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_ca..._AZ-C15P97.asp

What is that dark thing screwed onto the end of the barrel?

From the CT AWB:

(B) A semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following:

(i) An ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;

(ii) A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip or silencer;

[icedog88]

The weapon in question is called a Bushmaster Carbon 15 Type 97 pistol. My argument stems from the fact my gunstore says they are illegal and I say they are not. It is not called a Bushmaster Auto pistol. If it was called that, I wouldn't be trying to find out why I can't own it. Point is, it's not on that list so why the gun store saying it's illegal.

[icedog88]

According to the book, it is a quick connect muzzle brake, like hose coupling' for state compliant model. not threaded

[Aguila Blanca]

Last time I visited the Colt factory, there was a very big (at least by Connecticut standards) gun shop near the hotel my colleague picked. It was on CT Route 15 in (IIRC) Newington. Hoffmann's, perhaps? If you can find a toy store with a name similar to that, give 'em a call and ask.

[icedog88]

Thanks! I'll give it a shot