quick question: 9 vs 357 sig & 357 magnum

[NPS,LE]

I'm sure there are treads on this topic, but I'm just curious if there is any general agreement about how much more "powerful" a 357 mag is compared to a 357 sig or a hot 9? Sorry if this is one of those over-discussed questions and thanks for any thoughts.

[CritRxDoc]

I would do a search, and you will find a million STRONG opinions, little backed up with data. If there are any questions you have after hours upon hours of the academic pontificating and wading through it all. Then repost.

[rnovi]

Yep, hugely overkilled topic. It can easily become a very long and drawn out, relatively nasty fight. Do a search please.

One thing that you do need to ask though, is, what do you intend to do with the caliber? Home Defense? Hunting? Plinking? What you intend to do will make the difference in which caliber is best for you.

[Half-Price Assassin]

here is the cliff's notes version


9mm +P+ = good

.357sig = better

.357mag = an even better manstopper (what most experts agree on)

i use 9mm cause its cheaper

[tulsamal]

The .357 Magnum revolver is the most flexible one of the group. You can shoot .38 Special wadcutter loads that are just barely staying in the air they are going so slowly. Up through all the various magnum loads and into the heavyweights like the newish 180 grain hunting loads. There is no way .357 SIG can do any of that stuff. If was just designed to match the standard performance of the old police load. .357 Magnum, four inch barrel, 125 grain JHP, 1450 fps. Yes, you can push a .357 Magnum even harder than that but 1450 fps stopped a lot of bad guys. It's what I still use for my home defense Ruger Security Six.

And then the ammo companies released .357 SIG loads that didn't make it to 1450 fps. While releasing +P+ loads in 9mm that climb up into the mid 1300 fps range. A .357 SIG +P doesn't even exist although it seems like a good idea to me. If you are interested in .357 SIG as a defense load, you need to really look at the ballistics charts for the load you are considering. If it isn't going well over 1400 fps, what's the point? I personally think the Double Tap load with a Gold Dot is the way to go but that's just me. That load hits 1550 or so out of my G35. And without a whole bunch of flash.

Gregg

[18DAI]

Just remember shot placement as well ,because I'd alot rather be shot in the leg with my .45 ,than between the eyes with your .22. Regards 18DAI.

[Minator]

Nothing really different about them same size bullet just amped up velocities.
Im not to sure but I think they have goten the new .357sig at higher velocities than the .357 mag. but I heavent looked at the reacent loadings lately but when fired into meat the funny thing is the sig makes a nastier permanent wound channel.

[croyance]

Energy is proportional to the square of the velocity. So doubling velocity on the same mass gives four times the energy.

So without a doubt the .357 Magnum has the most energy to devote to penetration and hollowpoint expansion. Better expansion gives more energy dump. Penetration lets it get to the vital organs.

While people point out the performance of the 147 grain 9x19 used in the Miami Shootout, the bullet actually performed to what the FBI specifiactions demanded. Can't blame a manufacturer for meeting specs.
However, this is important because one bullet went through a bad guy's arms, ribs, and stopped just short of his heart. A full load 158 grain might have ended it.

The only common weight between the three is the 125 grain loading. Some say that the weight is the most effective of the .357 Magnum loads, though I have read stuff that disputes this.
A hot 9x19 might give 1200 fps at this weight.
The .357 Sig from a 4" barrel maybe 1300-1350 fps.
Same with the .357 magnum, but there are other options available. Also there is a greater variety of barrel lengths available for a revolver. Practically speaking you are talking 6" and less.

[razorburn]

The mag makes over 800fpe with factory ammo, 125 gr, 1700 fps, 6"bbl. Which 357sig beats that?

[Doggieman]

are you talking about just the cartridge or including the gun chambered for it as well? The overall firepower equation contains within it the number of rounds readily available. 357 mag=6, the others more.

[Love&Hate12]

With standard factory ammunition the 140gr. .357 does around 1300 fps, that's a hell of a load for one that isn't even loaded to it's max.

The .357 sig will do 1300 fps at 125 gr., the Magnum loaded to it's potential will do 1400 fps loaded to 180 grains.

A nice hot 9 will do 1300 fps at 124gr. --- This is an excellent load for carry by the way as you normally get a .70 cal expansion or more.

The 9mm is the most practical of the bunch for sport shooting and carrying, but if you're an outdoorsman a .357 is much better, revolvers also have a "cool" factor.

If you want a .357 sig just drop in a new barrel to the 9.

[juliet charley]

The .357 Magnum and 357 SIG are not really in the same league. The 10mm is the only autloader round that is comparable to the .357 Magnum--in fact, they are ballistic twins for all practical purposes. The .357 Magnum and 10mm are probably the two most versatile calibres available (though the .357 Magnum has it all over the 10mm in terms of bullet availability).

While the 357 SIG offers more velocity the 9x19 when it comes to penetration and expansion (what we're really matters with handguns), they are virtually identical. In terms of effectiveness of current generation, premium JHPs, it is absolutely wash between the 9x19 and 357 SIG.

[whitebb]

357 is a great round, and is my personal favorite. All being said, the most powerful round is the one that can be quickly and effectively put on target. Better to hit with a .22 than miss with a .500

[kidcoltoutlaw]

What factory 125 357 mag will do that in a 6 inch ?

[harrys ghost]

Buffalo Bore.

[kidcoltoutlaw]

They are not run of the mill factory.

[croyance]

If longer barrel lengths are used in this comparison, the .357 magnum will have even more velocity. A lot of those cartridges seem to use slow burning powders.
However, in short concealment type pistols the 9x19 evens out a bit. I have seen tables of velocity vs. barrel length in gun rag articles that show that many rounds don't lose velocity in shorter barrels. Some even appear to be marginally faster.

[joneb]

I feel like Bill Murray in the movie " Ground Hog Day "

[rnovi]

Yep, was just thinking that.

[Rightwinger]

Why doesn't anyone start a 9mm vs. .50BMG thread?

At least it would be a debate that hasn't been rehashed a dozen times a month...

[cje1980]

m not to sure but I think they have goten the new .357sig at higher velocities than the .357 mag.

Not that I know of. The bullet that the 357Sig has to try hard to move up to 1450fps, the 357Mag can easily launch at 1600+fps. Remember we are talking paper ballistics here. In the real world the 357Mag with its 125gr. SJHP is one of the most effective loads ever made. So while the 357Sig comes close to matching it ballistically, its bullets still have to feed in a semi-auto. You can't have a massive lead HP cavity with a massive meplat that will feed in an auto. The Fed 125gr. SJHP will penetrate 11-12" and will always expand regardless of whether the BG is wearing heavy clothing or not. An exposed lead tip going 1400fps makes for total mayhem on the intended target. This can't be matched simply copying paper ballistics.

The 357Sig was designed to penetrate hard barriers better than other common cartridges. Whether it accomplishes this is up for debate. It seems that we have two purposes between the 357Sig and the Magnum. The Magnum was simply designed to expand and bust into pieces in live targets while most of the 357Sigs bullets are designed to penetrate better and hold together. Somehow the 125gr. 357Mag got a reputation for good barrier penetration, which it doesn't and never had. The 357 loads that penetrate barriers well are those of the 158gr. variety. To me the 357Sig is a rather silly concept. They are trying to create a magic bullet that expands violently yet excels at penetrating barriers. In my opinion you either go for one or the either depending on your needs. Civilians don't need to shoot through windshields and car doors, so they should simply stick with a bullet designed to expand well. LEOs should look for better penetration, which would mean a 147gr. bonded 357Sig load going probably 1200fps.

[kidcoltoutlaw]

My 357 SIG P239 Bar-Sto 4.7 inch will hit 1570. Even at that it still is no 357 Mag but it is not weak by any means. The Gold dot is one heck of a good bullet. I think it will take rock or steel to blow one up,

Thanks,Keith

[miscusi]

yesterday for the first time I saw a video called "deadly effects" it is very scientific and says:

velocity dont matter. and will result only with bigger flash and recoil with little effect. so I guess p and pluses are hype ? hot loads are unecessary ? they showed some 357 hots issued to secret service all fragmented and just penetrated a few inches, (not good)

they said penetraion is from bullet weight and shape,

so 124gr FMJ 9mm will most likely reach the vitals whereas 115 p and pluses 357 JHP dont penetrate far enough to kill a man.

they also say bigger bullet the better, as they have a better chance to hit something vital. a 45 acp going slow is great, I dunno, you can see the video for yourself, its pretty informative.

[RJay]

The .357 is a 9MM.

[RJay]

Correction , the .357 Sig is a 9MM at .355 diameter, it is not .357 diameter.