Powder storage question

[Suwannee Tim]

I have seen lots of pictures of reloading set-ups on this forum and others, I notice they often show powder, sometimes a lot of powder being stored inside a residence. I have a detached garage where I store my powder, I only bring in enough to do the task I am working on. Previously I had a shed where I stored my powder. I believe to store powder inside your house is a dangerous fire hazard. I have disposed of a pound of powder and it makes a ball of fire you wouldn't believe. Do you store powder indoors? Do you think it is a hazard?

[Farmland]

Powder is safe to sotre in the house provided you follow the regulations that you see printed on tons of data loading sheets, etc.

There are many flammable items stored in the average home that range from paints & thinners to everyday cleaning chemicals. Some people store propane to cans of gas in an attached garage that in my opinion is more of hazard.

When you get some time read a few labels of items in your house and you might be surprised how many flammables you have inside the house.

Properly stored powder is no more dangerous than those items as long as you follow the guidelines for storage.

Here is some info that should cover most things.

Smokeless Powder -
Store in a cool, dry place - protected from accidental exposure to
ignition by flames, sparks or high temperatures. Avoid open flame,
furnaces, hot water heaters, sun's rays, mechanical/electrical
equipment. Also avoid solvents, flammable gases and other highly
combustible material because of risk of fires in the vicinity.

To avoid deterioration chemical, fumes, moisture and heat should be
avoided. Deterioration can be checked by smelling the powder. When you
open the cap on the container and sniff, good powder may have either a
solvent - alcohol, ether, acetone - type of odor, or perhaps little or
no odor. Powder going bad will have an acidic odor which irritates.

The approved shipping containers are constructed, so that in case of
accidental ignition of the powder they will open at quite low internal
pressures and so limit the burning rate of the powder. (Smokeless
powder burns much faster under pressure and builds up pressure very
fast.) Up to 20 pounds (9.1 kg) of smokeless powder can be kept in a
residence in its original containers. Up to 50 pounds (22.7 kg) can be
kept in a wooden box/cabinet with walls at least 1" thick or perhaps of
other fire resistant and insulating construction. The wooden or other
construction provides insulation against heat, should be large enough
to vent the gas produced if the powder does ignite, or should come
apart easily under low pressure to avoid a high pressure rupture which
can have the effect of an explosion. A weak wall or weak seams can be
used to accomplish this. Don't cram a storage box full, as this
increases the potential for high pressure. If you can use equal
quality storage places, safety is enhanced by using separate storage
locations, with several smaller quantities stored rather than one
larger quantity.

[snuffy]

Do you store powder indoors? Do you think it is a hazard?

YES. NO. You're not supposed to burn houses down. Or burn candles near powder, OR ANY OTHER OPEN FLAME. A little common sense goes a long way for powder storage.

But then common sense is on the endangered list. Some worry about getting hit by a meteor or the sky falling,(chicken little!)

[Farmland]

"Some worry about getting hit by a meteor or the sky falling,(chicken little!) "

Would that be the same as storing powder on top of the primers.

[oneounceload]

With the temperature and humidity issues here in FL, you bet I store it inside, along with primers and as much ammo as I can fit.

My uncle was FDNY, and he always said the worst fire call they had to respond to was a garage fire, because you NEVER knew what was in there - all those flammables, chemicals, etc. make for some nasty toxic smoke - gun powder burns nice and clean. besides, a climate-controlled environment will reduce the degradation process.....

[snuffy]

Would that be the same as storing powder on top of the primers.

Yep, ya jest know that the powder and primers are going to scheme and plot together blow themselves up without warning!

[Suwannee Tim]

I've been on the road today, I saw two houses burned that weren't burned last week. It happens. What do you suppose would happen if 10 or more pounds of smokeless powder were involved. I know. A house in my neighborhood caught fire two years ago, there was only "a few" pounds of smokeless powder. The husband was absent , the wife and two children were burned to death.

Yep, ya jest know that the powder and primers are going to scheme and plot together blow themselves up without warning!

I'd be embarrassed to put my name on a statement like this. I'm a member of a couple of other forums, I see more juvenile remarks on this one in a day than the other two in a week. It's almost impossible to have a serious discussion without a raft of irrelevant, juvenile remarks.

[73-Captain]

"... I saw two houses burned that weren't burned last week. It happens..."

And NEITHER of these 2 houses burned because of smokeless powder stored in the houses. So what was your point?


"...the wife and two children were burned to death."

Most likely NOT. Although the bodies may have burned, death was unlikely NOT from burning to death.


"What do you suppose would happen if 10 or more pounds of smokeless powder were involved..."

IF properly stored, 10 pounds of powder would not be much of a problem.

Unless you are one of those morons who stores your primers in a ammo can (with the lid on and latched) or other heavy metal box that converts the contents into a BOMB, I would not worry about fighting a fire with 10 pounds of primers in the house.

Like "oneounceload" said, "...the worst fire call they had to respond to was a garage fire, because you NEVER knew what was in there...". I've been to worse types of fires but at a residencial fire I'd agree, you never know what you are going to encounter at a garage fire or outside storage shed!


Storing powder and primers in a residence IS safe. In many ways it may be much safer than storing them outside. You do have to use common sense and as "Farmland" pointed out, there are regulations for SAFE storage of 20 pounds and even 50 pounds INSIDE a home. These regulations are usually based on tests and experience. And, yes also based on prior mistakes and accidents, that has shown what is and is not safe.

One of the safest places to store primers and powder IS in the basement of a home. Besides fire and heat going UP, during a fire your basement is likely going to be the coolest and wettest place in your home!!!

C.

[Suwannee Tim]

And NEITHER of these 2 houses burned because of smokeless powder stored in the houses. So what was your point?

The point is, say you have a house fire and your stash of smokeless powder ignites and the resulting conflagration fills the entire house with flame, your chances of getting out are now zero.

Most likely NOT. Although the bodies may have burned, death was unlikely NOT from burning to death.

I didn't intend to quibble about the exact cause of death, it was probably smoke inhalation. The bodies were burned beyond recognition. The house was burned to the ground which is rather unusual. Particularly as there was a fire station less than two miles away.

I have burned a pound of deteriorated smokeless powder, the fireball is impressive. One pound of smokeless would certainly fill an average sized room with fire for several seconds, ten pounds would fill the entire house in my estimation. Most people have never burned more that a small pile of smokeless and may not have an appreciation of how much fire a quantity of powder can produce.

[73-Captain]

"One pound of smokeless would certainly fill an average sized room with fire for several seconds, ten pounds would fill the entire house in my estimation."


"Estimate" all you want.

From TRAINING and EXPERIENCE, no it won't.

C.

[wncchester]

"I have seen lots of pictures ... I notice they often show powder, sometimes a lot of powder being stored inside a residence."

I don't want to say "Chicken Little" but what you see and what you read here sorta gives you some idea of how serious most of us view your fears. Store your powder and primers as you wish but if you are looking for support from the rest of us about the fearsome hazards of it, you probably have about as much as you gonna get. If it frightened us much, few of us would dare take the chance of reloading.

Been on the Itchtuknee lately? This is a great time of year for it!

[Farmland]

I don't know why you are getting a little over board on the fire & smokeless powder. It is safe to store in the house. It is not going to blow up and burn the house down. If there is a house fire you are far more in danger from common household items such as furniture which will burn and release thick black smoke. Plastic will fill the home with toxic fumes that can kill faster than anything. Now unless you store you powder unsafely such as beside the furnace, oven or another flame source what is your concern.

Have some common sense the house will fill much faster form normal house hold items, unless of course every thing is made out of concrete. At that point you would probably be pretty safe.

If you store it safely in a recommended fire resistive area there are no problems. Now if you are going to reload while smoking, running a space heater or kerosene heat in the same room you are safe. Of course you can choose to leave the cap of the powder and accidentally ignite a primer near the powder.

If you house is on fire the gun powder will not make it burn down any faster and if properly stored in the right place with the recommended maximum amount your house isn't going to go poof. I'm not sure but some of your rounds may cook off but then again by that time your house may be a total loss.

With that said I wouldn't store it in my kids room, near the only staircase form the second floor, in the furnace room etc. You are at more risk form some of the gun cleaning solvents, cleaning supplies, etc going up in a fire ball than properly stored smokeless powder.

But it it worries you don't store it in the house it is that simple.

To your question - no I know storing smokeless powder properly in a house is not a danger. The key work proper and there are enough sources on the web to describe what is safe.

Basic safety info as follows.

STORE IN A COOL, DRY PLACE. Be sure the storage area selected is free from any possible sources of excess heat and is isolated from open flame, furnaces, hot water heaters, etc. Do not store smokeless powder where it will be exposed to the sun's rays. Avoid storage in ares where mechanical or electrical equipment is in operation. restrict from the storage areas heat or sparks which may result from improper, defective or overloaded electrical circuits.

DO NOT STORE SMOKELESS POWDER IN THE SAME AREA WITH SOLVENTS, FLAMMABLE GASES OR HIGHLY COMBUSTIBLE MATERIALS.

STORE ONLY IN DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION APPROVED CONTAINERS. Do not transfer the powder from an approved container into one which is not approved.

DO NOT SMOKE IN AREAS WHERE POWDER IS STORED OR USED. Place appropriate "No Smoking" signs in these areas.

DO NOT SUBJECT THE STORAGE CABINETS TO CLOSE CONFINEMENT.

STORAGE CABINETS SHOULD BE CONSTRUCTED OF INSULATING MATERIALS WITH A WEAK WALL, SEAMS OR JOINTS TO PROVIDE AN EASY MEANS OF SELF-VENTING.

I do not know what more of an answer you would like? Of course you MUST NEVER store powder with primers, because very bad things can happen. You have to handle it with care and respect but it just isn't going to magically blow up the house. With that said I certainly would not consider storing massive amounts of it in the house, but no one recommends that.

I store the bulk of mine in an out building with no source of fire or heat. However a few pounds are keep in the reloading room. Note: since posting my photos of my reloading room I have built a small powder magazine per the recommended instructions for storing smokeless gun powder. More importantly the primers are no where close to the powder.

[Russ5924]

If your garage is as hot as mine here in Jacksonville, this time of year most days it runs close to 100. My home is 78 at all times I will keep it inside. It does say in a cool dry place I have about 5 pounds of different powder in the house it if goes it goes

[Rich Keagy]

Does anyone remember the paper tube-like construction of the old powder containers?
The 4-pounders were great to chuck out old primers. (shotgun lore here).
They were designed to burst rather than contain the burn and cause an explosion.
I don't know whether the moder plastic ones would do that.

[Demaiter]

"Theoretically" if its dangerous to have powder in a plastic jug wouldn't loaded ammo be even more dangerous?

A plastic jug with powder is not just going to start on fire.

In the event of a house fire I'd want everything that can burn out of the house if possible... but that is never the case. Watch some mythbusters - they set smokeless gun powder on fire quite often and all it does is burn, same as a couch or fabric curtains and what not...

It's safe, just store it properly - if your scared of the house filling up with smoke, store the gun powder in the farthest most quarantined room of the house away from the escape routes such as doors/windows etc.

[snuffy]

I'd be embarrassed to put my name on a statement like this. I'm a member of a couple of other forums, I see more juvenile remarks on this one in a day than the other two in a week. It's almost impossible to have a serious discussion without a raft of irrelevant, juvenile remarks.

I WAS being serious.

Yep, ya jest know that the powder and primers are going to scheme and plot together blow themselves up without warning!

Please explain to me how, without outside influence, primers and powder are going to self ignite! Primers are packaged in such a way that the cup and anvil can't be struck while in the packaging. If a very heavy weight would fall some distance, striking a box of primers against an immovable surface,(concrete), THEN they might explode. IF they were close to some powder, the packaging of the powder would protect it from the brief spark that resulted. No problem.

People are just plain paranoid. They fear what they don't understand, then don't listen when someone explains things to them. Like don't worry about it!

Smokeless powder burns freely at a very high temp. It would certainly add greatly to a house fire, but for a very short time,(for each container that ignited).

Smokeless powder HAS to be very tightly contained to explode. Read that to mean in a steel cylinder of heavy construction.

I have over 50 pounds of powder sitting on a self standing shelf right next to my bed. At the foot of the bed is another wall mounted shelf that holds about the same amount. I sleep quite well indeed. Why? Because there's just no other place for it. Also there's a couple thousand rounds of loaded ammo in there as well. I load in another bedroom, I only have the powder I'm using at the time in there.

[bustoff]

if all else fails, read the directions! snuffy, my dad had a cat that was hit by a meteor. a mercury meteor

[oneounceload]

Smokeless powder HAS to be very tightly contained to explode. Read that to mean in a steel cylinder of heavy construction.

Powder doesn't explode, it burns and creates gases that expand at an incredible rate and create enormous pressure when tightly contained

[Uncle Buck]

Like the OP, I also had concerns when I started reloading (About two months ago). I did a lot of reading, research and talking to other re loaders.
I decided to store my primers and powder separate from each other (Same room, different box). I use a plastic tupperware type box for them.
(Although, if what everyone says is true, I may have to get a super-sized plastic Tote the longer I stay in reloading )
I was warned about making sure that my storage box was not able to be turned into a bomb should it accidentally ignite (like someone said earlier, stored in an old ammo can).

[Dr. Strangelove]

I store my powder and primers right on the back shelf of my loading bench, always have, always will and I don't worry a bit. If I had children, I more than likely would lock up the powder just remembering what I was l like as a child. Otherwise, there are far more dangerous items in the house than a few pounds of smokeless powder.

[schutzen]

Speaking from experience with house fires and ammunition, our home burned in 1998, you do not need to worry about ammunition, powder, or primers. I had 5K center fire, 3-5K rim fire and 15 cases of shot shells, roughly 10 lbs of smokeless powder, 2-3 lbs of black powder, and roughly 2K of primers in my attached garage when our house burned. Yes, they did make the fire hotter in a very localized area, but they did not start the fire and they did not prevent it from being extinguished. The two worst things I had stored in the house were cooking oil (15 gallons for deep frying turkeys) and oil based paints. Powder and primers did not seem to cause any greater a localized hot spot than the box of candles my wife had stored in the hall closet. That is not my opinion that is the opinion of the state fire marshal that investigated the fire (big insurance policy equals an automatic state fire marshal investigation). Do follow the advice in one of the above post about storing powder and primers in loosely constructed wooden cabinets and not tight metal boxes like military ammo cans, but do not needlessly worry about fire. Enjoy life and enjoy your hobby, unless you are extremely careless, your reloading and shooting supplies will never affect your families fire safety.

Our home burned because the electric clothes dry had a lint fire around the sealed compartment housing the drive motor. How many wives want to give up the electric clothes dryer because it was one of the leading causes of house fires in the 1990’s?