Powder Sticking in Hopper???

Edward429451 · August 10, 2002, 09:03 PM

Very un-cool. I go to reload some .308's today for my range trip tomorrow and I go to empty my RCBS Uni-Flow of Power Pistol, and I got a even layer of sticking powder all around the inner circumferance of the green plastic hopper. Disassembled, dry brushed, no good. Soaked assembly in soapy water for a few hours, scrubbed, 90% came out. With more scrubbing its slowly coming out.

The inner surface of the hopper where the powder had stuck has taken on a crystalline textured appearance not unlike a chemical reaction to the plastic has taken place. Tried to scrape it off with a knife blade thinking it may be a residue and cleanable, but apparently not, its in the plastic itself.

This powder measure is around 17 yrs old and I have never had any problem with powder sticking in it before. I have left different powders in it before for probably up to a year, just keep topping it off and no powder has ever stuck appreciably in it before, minor flakes which are easily brushed out with a dry rag.

This is the first time that Power Pistol has been in this hopper/measure, and records indicate its been in there 3 months. Basement, cool and seemingly dry but no actual humidity measurements.

Any ideas on what's going on? Bad lot of Power Pistol? Typical lot of Power Pistol? (This is the first time I've used Power Pistol too) High dose of humidity? Any similar experiences by you all?

**Mike Irwin** · August 10, 2002, 11:09 PM

Yep. The chemicals in the powder were reacting with the plastic in the hopper. Smokeless powder is chemically stable, but it is not chemically inert.

I've seen it happen before.

I THINK that RCBS has a new hopper that you can get that is a lot more stable than the older plastics.

Edward429451 · August 10, 2002, 11:42 PM

Is my hopper replaceable or do I need a whole new one? I judiciously checked it out to see if it is removeable but I don't think so, so I left it alone so not to break it.

Are certain powders more susceptible to this happening than others?

**Mike Irwin** · August 11, 2002, 12:06 AM

Ed,

Sorry, I really can't answer either question.

The easiest solution, though, is to simply remember to empty your hopper after each loading session.

This only happens over extended lengths of time, not in a few minutes.

sricciardelli · August 11, 2002, 08:59 AM

First of all, you don't leave powder in a plastic (or any other hopper) for three months!

Secondly, instead of worrying about the effect it had on the hopper, have you even considered the effect on the powder?

C.R.Sam · August 11, 2002, 11:52 AM

"...Secondly, instead of worrying about the effect it had on the hopper, have you even considered the effect on the powder?..."

Amen.

Sam

Edward429451 · August 11, 2002, 03:29 PM

Well, yeah. I threw the powder out. Thats a given.

I've left powder in hoppers longer than that with no problem. Just toss a pillow case over it so no light or dust gets to it.

Ah, well. You live and you learn.

RCBS'll probably replace it. I'll start emptying hoppers in the future.

(That's what's great about TFL. The set ya' straight quick here.)

tstr · August 11, 2002, 10:30 PM

It doesn't take three months to scar the plastic of an RCBS powder measure with Power Pistol powder. It did it to mine in less than three days.

I, like you, had never had any other problems with any other powder. But I was suprised to see what the Power Pistol did to my plastic. It etched it good.

I really like Power Pistol, but it does not get along with RCBS. I dunno what to say beyond that.

tstr

P.S. my powder measure is only about three years old.

Edward429451 · August 11, 2002, 10:44 PM

Hmmm. Now that is interesting. Wonder what it is in the Power Pistol that makes it do that.

This is my first pound of PP, I haven't shot enough of it to decide if I like it or not yet. Its headed negative pretty fast now.

Well, theres always 231. Old reliable with no suprises.

MADISON · August 13, 2002, 08:07 AM

ALWAYS empty the hopper when you are through loading. I use a pencil to "tap" the inside of the measure, to loosen any granuals that want to stick because of static. Call or E-Mail RCBS.

bullet44 · August 13, 2002, 08:59 AM

Light does funny stuff too gun powder,
eat the bottom off my lyman hopper in two days with titegroup, so always empty, tap,
cover hopper with black cloth, I use a
heavy black sock.

Suppose that is the reason it's shipped in
black cans.??(smile) anyways after 35 years
I should have known.

Jim Watson · August 13, 2002, 09:32 AM

Ed,

Probably the nitroglycerine in a double base powder like Power Pistol is what is attacking the hopper. It is a plasticizer for some types of thermoplastic.

There is no excuse for their using a non-resistant material for a powder measure. Most powder is now shipped and stored in plastic containers, it would cost them little if any to make the measure hopper out of something that would stand contact. It may have taken three months for the Power Pistol to attack your hopper, but I have read of much faster attacks.

I always empty my Uniflo after loading single stage with it, but my Dillon and MEC progressive loaders stay filled and ready. My C-H discolored rapidly, so I made a glass liner for its hopper.

If Dillon wants me to empty their measures between uses, they are going to have to make them a lot easier to dismount and dump.

sleeping dog · August 13, 2002, 10:18 AM

Call RCBS Customer Service and explain what happened. They may provide advice. They may also provide a new hopper. They are generally outstanding.

Also, I've read that occasionally wiping the inside of the hopper with an anti-static sheet of paper (borrowed from the clothes dryer area) can keep it from sticking so much. I've done that, it didn't seem to make much difference. If the sheet has gunpowder on it, don't use it in the dryer

Regards.

griz · August 13, 2002, 02:07 PM

Well it’s not a problem because of its age. I bought an RCBS progressive with the Uniflow about 3 months ago. Left Titegroup in the hopper for about two days and it etched it pretty good. The hopper was removed by prying around the base with a screwdriver. It chipped the rim in a few places, but I intend to replace it anyway. I sanded the diameter down a little to make it easier next time.

My plan is to buy one of the Sinclair bottle adapters. That should eliminate cleaning the hopper as much as I have to now.

Edward429451 · August 13, 2002, 04:44 PM

OK, RCBS was very nice about it. Offered to replace it immediately. Just break the old one out, clean it up, and tap in the new one with a 2X4 laid across the top. Friction fit.

Quote:

There is no excuse for their using a non-resistant material for a powder measure.

Yeah, you'd think that would be a given. So it was my fault, but, was it really my fault? I mean, it is made for gunpowder.

I've got 3 Dillon conversions too. I obviously dont empty those and the oldest one is darkening some but there's no sticking or etching. Its had some level of 231 in it at all times since it was new. Maybe I'll ask Dillon about it too. See what they say.

RCBS ROCKS (I'll stay away from Titegroup.)

Peter M. Eick · August 13, 2002, 07:29 PM

I had the same problem with PowerPistol. RCBS gave me a new hopper, but for the short run, what the heck. I just kept using the old hopper and empting when I am done. It has now gotten dark enough at the bottom that the only way I can tell the powder level is with the top off. It does not seem to effect the operation of the measure though.

Anyway, this is only through the use of a lot of PowerPistol and emptying after every use.

Too bad they cannot find some plastic that works though.

Yodar · August 13, 2002, 08:03 PM

nitrocellulose powders are extruded thru use of a solvent to soften it and make it plastic for processing it..Acetone, or ether, mainly.

You KNOW what acetone does to polystyrene plastics

Nitroglycerine-augmented nitrocellulose powders (double-base) involve even more solvents to introduce the EXTRA nitro into the guncotton

No wonder powdermeasures , plasticized during their manufacture with the same solvents, misbehave. My Dillon Hopper-baffles are "wilting" from Hodgdon Clays but I still get
+ or - 0.1gr accuracy.

it's important to use antistatic laundry tissues to prevent sticking of granules to the hopper but removal of powder to native container is essential.

Yodar in O'do

Edward429451 · August 16, 2002, 08:51 PM

Dillon said "Empty the Hopper"

I said, "But isnt the hopper made for gunpowder?"

Dillon said "No, its not"

OKayyy. Glad I cleared that up.

Khornet · August 17, 2002, 08:12 AM

in water and diswashing soap e.g. Joy, then let dry without rinsing off the soapy liquid. I do that ONCE before using any new plastic powder vessel...hopper, funnel etc. and have never had sticking or etching with ball, flake, or extruded powder.

MADISON · August 19, 2002, 12:31 AM

If you have Powder Sticking in Hopper, You have been leaving powder sit in the hopper. I have 2 solutions you might try:
[1] Contact the manufacturer and tell them you need a new hopper and see if they will replace it.
[2] Meausre the outside diameter of the hopper. Go to Lowes, Home Depot or a hardware and buy a short piece of WHITE plumbing pipe. Drill the necessary holes and you are all set. The disadvantage is you need to remove the top to see how full the hopper is.

Edward429451 · August 19, 2002, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Nitroglycerine-augmented nitrocellulose powders (double-base) involve even more solvents to introduce the EXTRA nitro into the guncotton

Bingo. Did some reading in the Speer #11 manual last night and there it was just like you said.

Somebody mentioned something about lining the hopper with glass...According to the Speer manual, glass is very bad for powder, don't do it.

I've since dumped all my other hoppers.

Jim Watson · August 19, 2002, 03:15 PM

Glass is bad for powder?
I doubt it, but ultraviolet coming THROUGH the glass is bad for powder, just as it is for plastic and rubber. So cover it up when not in use.
Star used tempered glass hoppers on many of their progressives, those that didn't have metal hoppers, because when they were the only choice in progressives the usual powder was Bullseye which contains the most nitroglycerine of any powder still being made, and there were no common plastics resistant to it.

Edward429451 · August 19, 2002, 04:01 PM

I dug out the Speer book and reread it and you are correct. Its not that the glass itself is bad, its that it lets light in which accelarates the decomposition of the powder. Sorry for the mixup.

Edward429451 · August 19, 2002, 04:07 PM

So whats so special about the black plastic jugs that some of my powder comes in? Why don't it decompose in the jug? WW-231, BLC-2, 2400, Power Pistol, H-110, Unique, all those come in plastic.

Jim Watson · August 19, 2002, 04:56 PM

Hodgdon, AA, and Alliant plastic powder containers (I haven't got a plastic Winchester on hand.) are all code 2, HDPE = high density polyethylene. The same material as milk cartons except dyed black to prevent UV from deteriorating the plastic and the powder. One of the most common and cheapest plastics on the market. But not as cheap as what RCBS and Dillon use, I guess. Or maybe it doesn't mold as smooth as their stuff.

With Dillon selling an electric powder level monitor, the hopper wouldn't have to be transparent, would it?

I wonder if there would be a market for a Dillon bottle conversion for those of us who keep our machines set up?

August 10, 2002, 11:09 PM	#2
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Yep. The chemicals in the powder were reacting with the plastic in the hopper. Smokeless powder is chemically stable, but it is not chemically inert. I've seen it happen before. I THINK that RCBS has a new hopper that you can get that is a lot more stable than the older plastics. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 11, 2002, 12:06 AM	#4
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Ed, Sorry, I really can't answer either question. The easiest solution, though, is to simply remember to empty your hopper after each loading session. This only happens over extended lengths of time, not in a few minutes. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 11, 2002, 08:59 AM	#5
sricciardelli Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2001 Location: Montana Posts: 489	First of all, you don't leave powder in a plastic (or any other hopper) for three months! Secondly, instead of worrying about the effect it had on the hopper, have you even considered the effect on the powder? __________________ http://stevespages.com/page8.htm

August 13, 2002, 08:07 AM	#10
MADISON Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2000 Location: Roanoke, Virginia Posts: 2,678	Powder Sticking in Hopper ALWAYS empty the hopper when you are through loading. I use a pencil to "tap" the inside of the measure, to loosen any granuals that want to stick because of static. Call or E-Mail RCBS.

August 13, 2002, 07:29 PM	#16
Peter M. Eick Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 1999 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,991	I had the same problem with PowerPistol. RCBS gave me a new hopper, but for the short run, what the heck. I just kept using the old hopper and empting when I am done. It has now gotten dark enough at the bottom that the only way I can tell the powder level is with the top off. It does not seem to effect the operation of the measure though. Anyway, this is only through the use of a lot of PowerPistol and emptying after every use. Too bad they cannot find some plastic that works though. __________________ 10mm and 357sig, the best things to come along since the 38 super!

August 10, 2002, 09:03 PM	#1
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	Powder Sticking in Hopper??? Very un-cool. I go to reload some .308's today for my range trip tomorrow and I go to empty my RCBS Uni-Flow of Power Pistol, and I got a even layer of sticking powder all around the inner circumferance of the green plastic hopper. Disassembled, dry brushed, no good. Soaked assembly in soapy water for a few hours, scrubbed, 90% came out. With more scrubbing its slowly coming out. The inner surface of the hopper where the powder had stuck has taken on a crystalline textured appearance not unlike a chemical reaction to the plastic has taken place. Tried to scrape it off with a knife blade thinking it may be a residue and cleanable, but apparently not, its in the plastic itself. This powder measure is around 17 yrs old and I have never had any problem with powder sticking in it before. I have left different powders in it before for probably up to a year, just keep topping it off and no powder has ever stuck appreciably in it before, minor flakes which are easily brushed out with a dry rag. This is the first time that Power Pistol has been in this hopper/measure, and records indicate its been in there 3 months. Basement, cool and seemingly dry but no actual humidity measurements. Any ideas on what's going on? Bad lot of Power Pistol? Typical lot of Power Pistol? (This is the first time I've used Power Pistol too) High dose of humidity? Any similar experiences by you all?

August 10, 2002, 11:42 PM	#3
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	Is my hopper replaceable or do I need a whole new one? I judiciously checked it out to see if it is removeable but I don't think so, so I left it alone so not to break it. Are certain powders more susceptible to this happening than others?

August 11, 2002, 11:52 AM	#6
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	"...Secondly, instead of worrying about the effect it had on the hopper, have you even considered the effect on the powder?..." Amen. Sam

August 11, 2002, 03:29 PM	#7
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	Well, yeah. I threw the powder out. Thats a given. I've left powder in hoppers longer than that with no problem. Just toss a pillow case over it so no light or dust gets to it. Ah, well. You live and you learn. RCBS'll probably replace it. I'll start emptying hoppers in the future. (That's what's great about TFL. The set ya' straight quick here.)

August 11, 2002, 10:30 PM	#8
tstr Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2000 Location: Oregon Posts: 233	It doesn't take three months to scar the plastic of an RCBS powder measure with Power Pistol powder. It did it to mine in less than three days. I, like you, had never had any other problems with any other powder. But I was suprised to see what the Power Pistol did to my plastic. It etched it good. I really like Power Pistol, but it does not get along with RCBS. I dunno what to say beyond that. tstr P.S. my powder measure is only about three years old.

August 11, 2002, 10:44 PM	#9
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	Hmmm. Now that is interesting. Wonder what it is in the Power Pistol that makes it do that. This is my first pound of PP, I haven't shot enough of it to decide if I like it or not yet. Its headed negative pretty fast now. Well, theres always 231. Old reliable with no suprises.

August 13, 2002, 08:59 AM	#11
bullet44 Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2000 Posts: 819	Light does funny stuff too gun powder, eat the bottom off my lyman hopper in two days with titegroup, so always empty, tap, cover hopper with black cloth, I use a heavy black sock. Suppose that is the reason it's shipped in black cans.??(smile) anyways after 35 years I should have known.

August 13, 2002, 09:32 AM	#12
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,542	Ed, Probably the nitroglycerine in a double base powder like Power Pistol is what is attacking the hopper. It is a plasticizer for some types of thermoplastic. There is no excuse for their using a non-resistant material for a powder measure. Most powder is now shipped and stored in plastic containers, it would cost them little if any to make the measure hopper out of something that would stand contact. It may have taken three months for the Power Pistol to attack your hopper, but I have read of much faster attacks. I always empty my Uniflo after loading single stage with it, but my Dillon and MEC progressive loaders stay filled and ready. My C-H discolored rapidly, so I made a glass liner for its hopper. If Dillon wants me to empty their measures between uses, they are going to have to make them a lot easier to dismount and dump.

August 13, 2002, 10:18 AM	#13
sleeping dog Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2000 Location: MI Posts: 536	Call RCBS Customer Service and explain what happened. They may provide advice. They may also provide a new hopper. They are generally outstanding. Also, I've read that occasionally wiping the inside of the hopper with an anti-static sheet of paper (borrowed from the clothes dryer area) can keep it from sticking so much. I've done that, it didn't seem to make much difference. If the sheet has gunpowder on it, don't use it in the dryer Regards.

August 13, 2002, 02:07 PM	#14
griz Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2000 Location: Middle Peninsula, VA Posts: 1,588	Well it’s not a problem because of its age. I bought an RCBS progressive with the Uniflow about 3 months ago. Left Titegroup in the hopper for about two days and it etched it pretty good. The hopper was removed by prying around the base with a screwdriver. It chipped the rim in a few places, but I intend to replace it anyway. I sanded the diameter down a little to make it easier next time. My plan is to buy one of the Sinclair bottle adapters. That should eliminate cleaning the hopper as much as I have to now.

August 13, 2002, 08:03 PM	#17
Yodar Member Join Date: January 20, 1999 Location: WinterPark,Fl. USA Posts: 89	Powders are PLASTIC nitrocellulose powders are extruded thru use of a solvent to soften it and make it plastic for processing it..Acetone, or ether, mainly. You KNOW what acetone does to polystyrene plastics Nitroglycerine-augmented nitrocellulose powders (double-base) involve even more solvents to introduce the EXTRA nitro into the guncotton No wonder powdermeasures , plasticized during their manufacture with the same solvents, misbehave. My Dillon Hopper-baffles are "wilting" from Hodgdon Clays but I still get + or - 0.1gr accuracy. it's important to use antistatic laundry tissues to prevent sticking of granules to the hopper but removal of powder to native container is essential. Yodar in O'do __________________ Yodar

August 16, 2002, 08:51 PM	#18
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	Dillon said "Empty the Hopper" I said, "But isnt the hopper made for gunpowder?" Dillon said "No, its not" OKayyy. Glad I cleared that up.

August 17, 2002, 08:12 AM	#19
Khornet Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2001 Location: NH Posts: 585	Rinse the hopper in water and diswashing soap e.g. Joy, then let dry without rinsing off the soapy liquid. I do that ONCE before using any new plastic powder vessel...hopper, funnel etc. and have never had sticking or etching with ball, flake, or extruded powder. __________________ The M1 does MY talking!

August 19, 2002, 12:31 AM	#20
MADISON Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2000 Location: Roanoke, Virginia Posts: 2,678	Powder Sticking in Hopper If you have Powder Sticking in Hopper, You have been leaving powder sit in the hopper. I have 2 solutions you might try: [1] Contact the manufacturer and tell them you need a new hopper and see if they will replace it. [2] Meausre the outside diameter of the hopper. Go to Lowes, Home Depot or a hardware and buy a short piece of WHITE plumbing pipe. Drill the necessary holes and you are all set. The disadvantage is you need to remove the top to see how full the hopper is.

August 19, 2002, 03:15 PM	#22
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,542	Glass is bad for powder? I doubt it, but ultraviolet coming THROUGH the glass is bad for powder, just as it is for plastic and rubber. So cover it up when not in use. Star used tempered glass hoppers on many of their progressives, those that didn't have metal hoppers, because when they were the only choice in progressives the usual powder was Bullseye which contains the most nitroglycerine of any powder still being made, and there were no common plastics resistant to it.

August 19, 2002, 04:01 PM	#23
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	I dug out the Speer book and reread it and you are correct. Its not that the glass itself is bad, its that it lets light in which accelarates the decomposition of the powder. Sorry for the mixup.

August 19, 2002, 04:07 PM	#24
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	So whats so special about the black plastic jugs that some of my powder comes in? Why don't it decompose in the jug? WW-231, BLC-2, 2400, Power Pistol, H-110, Unique, all those come in plastic.

August 19, 2002, 04:56 PM	#25
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,542	Hodgdon, AA, and Alliant plastic powder containers (I haven't got a plastic Winchester on hand.) are all code 2, HDPE = high density polyethylene. The same material as milk cartons except dyed black to prevent UV from deteriorating the plastic and the powder. One of the most common and cheapest plastics on the market. But not as cheap as what RCBS and Dillon use, I guess. Or maybe it doesn't mold as smooth as their stuff. With Dillon selling an electric powder level monitor, the hopper wouldn't have to be transparent, would it? I wonder if there would be a market for a Dillon bottle conversion for those of us who keep our machines set up?