338 Lapua vs.300 mag.

bigdaddy123 · February 16, 2013, 07:48 PM

I was thinking about getting into long-range shooting and these two calibers are popular choices.Any info.or suggestions will be appreciated.

taylorce1 · February 16, 2013, 08:32 PM

Some questions need to be answered first.

1. Do you need a .300 WM or .338 Lapua to accomplish your long range goals?
2. What is your idea of long range?
3. What is your experience level with rifles?
4. Do you reload or are you willing to invest in equipment and learn?
5. Do you own a Chronograph?
6. Do you have a place (shoot) to take advantage of a rifle chambered in .338 Lapua?

Number one is pretty easy, as there are a lot of cartridges that will get you long range shooting much cheaper than the two choices you gave.

Two, everyone has a different idea of long range to me it doesn't really start until you get north of 600 yards.

Three, with the two cartridges you selected you can't usually jump right into them and expect to shoot well.

Four, good quality ammunition for both is expensive. Far more so for the .338 Lapua. If you want to shoot you'll need deep pockets or reload to make it affordable long term.

Five, you'll need a good chronograph to measure your speed to work your drops.

Six, if your not shooting 800 yards and beyond all the time, the .338 Lapua is usually far more rifle than anyone needs.

bigdaddy123 · February 16, 2013, 09:18 PM

Yes, I need one or the other for 1200-1400 yard shooting.Experience with rifles -Palmetto State AR M4 carbine,DPMS Sweet 16,Savage Scout .308,CZ 527 carbine 7.62x39,Yugo Sks,Marlin 336 30-30,H&R Buffalo Classic 45-70,Browning 7 mag.Next step is reloading with this purchase.I do have access to longer distances.Trying to narrow down my wish list.

steveNChunter · February 16, 2013, 09:46 PM

The .338 will have less drop at those ranges and will also resist the wind better.
The Savage 11/111 Long Range Hunter would be a good rifle.

Other than that I'm not a good source of long-range info.

taylorce1 · February 17, 2013, 10:24 AM

I wasn't really asking what rifles you own, but as to what your experience was shooting rifles. 1200-1400 yards can be done without going to the .300 WM or .338 Lapua.

1000 yards with 7mm RM

7mm WSM 1400 yards

2000 yards 7mm WSM

I realize these video's have the 7mm WSM going past 1000 yards, but the 7mm RM and the WSM are similar in capabilities. So if it were me, I wouldn't invest in a new rifle yet. I'd take that 7mm RM Browning of yours and use the money you want to spend on the rifle and buy good optics and reloading gear. Strech the legs on it and then possibly invest in a larger caliber rifle later on. You're looking at a minimum of $2.5K investment in a decent LR rifle and scope before reloading equipment. It's your money and your call but that is what I'd do before going after a rifle in .338 Lapua.

jmr40 · February 17, 2013, 01:08 PM

taylorce1 usually knows what he is talking about and I have always valued his opinions. I'll just add that the military looked hard at the 338 Lapua before deciding on the 300 WM. A new world record benchrest record was recently set with a 300 WSM.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...-with-300-wsm/

The .300's have something going for them, and on paper at least a 7 mag looks at least as good.

I'd start with the 7 and by the time you get really good at 800 or so with it you'll know what you need to go farther

allaroundhunter · February 17, 2013, 03:21 PM

What is up with all of the .338 Lapua threads recently?..... The .338 Lapua doesn't come into it's own until you get out past 1500 yards. Until then, there are many calibers better suited for the job, including the .300 WM.

Like jmr40, I have great respect for talorce1's thoughts on the long range subject, and actually go back through his posts when I have a question or two.

I went out and watched a couple friends shoot at the 1,250 yard range yesterday, and neither of them were shooting a .30+ caliber gun. One was shooting a 6XC, which I was thoroughly impressed with, and the other was shooting a 7mm WSM. They were each hitting a 10" plate consistently, and the 6XC hit it 8 times in a row... I have never shot at that distance, but that is shooting sub-moa... with more than just environmental factors to figure in...

GeauxTide · February 17, 2013, 06:10 PM

I'd listen and do whatever Taylorce and CraigWY say. They are the experts.

Bart B. · February 17, 2013, 07:49 PM

From what I glean from the long range benchrest folks, the larger 30 calibers take home more bacon than the others at 1000 yards. For shoulder fired rifles in long range prone matches (600 yards plus), the 26 and 28 calibers are the favorites these days except for Palma matches where the .308 Win. or .223 Rem. are the only cartridges allowed. All the popular long range cartridges for both benchrest and prone matches will shoot with equal accuracy; under 6 to 7 inches at 1000 yards. Those with less recoil are easier to shoot accurately off the shoulder; doesn't matter with free recoiling benchrest guns. Once in a (great) while, one will cluster 5 shots inside 2 inches at 1000 yards and everybody's ga-ga over that marvelous accuracy. Few, if any, realize those extremly-tiny few-shot groups happen only when all the variables cancel each other out.

There's no accuracy difference between stiff and whippy barrels for long range accuracy. If there was, then those 30 to 32 inch long, slender, whippy 5-pound Palma rifle barrels would not shoot just as accurate as shorter, thicker ones used in long range benchrest rigs. The most repeatable thing a rifle has from shot to shot is its barrel whips and wiggles at exactly the same frequency for each shot. And at the longer ranges, whippy barrels may well shoot ammo more accurate that stiffer ones; especially when that ammo's got a wide velocity range. The Brits proved this over a century ago with their .303 Short Magazine Lee Enfields and .303 Lee Metfords.

Most folks I know of will pick a cartridge for shoulder fired rifles that's more accurate to shoot than one that bucks the wind a little better.

Another thing to consider is accurate barrel life at long range; no worse than 6 to 7 inches at 1000 yards. The popular 6.5x.284 and 7mm SAUM round popular in prone matches has a barrel life of about 800 rounds for best accuracy. The .308 Win.'s barrel life is about 2500 rounds. .300 Win Mags and others of that size go about 1200 rounds for best long range accuracy.

bigdaddy123 · February 17, 2013, 09:03 PM

Thanks Bart B.,I've been looking at a couple of Savage's rifles in .300 mag.Do you have any info.on the 10/110 FCP HS Percision .300 Win.Mag.?

reynolds357 · February 17, 2013, 09:10 PM

I dont shoot past 1000 much. Right now, .284 Winchester and 6.5X284 Norma are the dominant 1000 yd. cartridges. .284 Ackley improved is starting to take some wins as well.

Bart B. · February 17, 2013, 09:43 PM

BigDaddy, no, I don't have detailed info on Savage rifles. But they do have a good reputation.

But for best accuracy, use a rifle with a built in box magazine or a single shot one. Detachable magazines are notorious for each one requiring a different zero And they typically don't stay fit tight shot after shot after shot which hurts accuracy. Not using the magazine but single loading rounds, it may well should shoot pretty accurate.

The 10/110 FCP HS Precision's stock is well designed for prone shooting but will need a hand stop fitted to use with a sling. It will also work well for shooting from a bench after removing the two swivel studs. Its 1:10 twist is great for 220 grain Sierra HPMK bullets from the .300 Win. Mag. case.

Matno · February 17, 2013, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bart B.

But for best accuracy, use a rifle with a built in box magazine or a single shot one. Detachable magazines are notorious for each one requiring a different zero And they typically don't stay fit tight shot after shot after shot which hurts accuracy.

I still don't understand how the magazine has anything to do with the accuracy of the gun. Once the cartridge is in the chamber, it has no contact with the magazine, nor does the magazine provide any structural support. Unless the magazine being mobile somehow affects the harmonics of the gun, it doesn't make sense that it could affect accuracy. I know people will swear it does, but my dad's Les Baer begs to differ every time it shoots a .25" group from its detachable magazine.

Matno · February 17, 2013, 10:44 PM

And as for the original topic, I would LOVE both, but practicality wins this one. I've had a .300 win mag for over 20 years and love it to death.

rockincolorado · February 18, 2013, 03:25 PM

I suspect you need to shoot the rifle that makes you feel the most comfortable and fits you the best. The 2013 Army long-range service rifle championship that was held last week at Fort Benning, Ga was won with a .300 WinMag. The soldier said "it just fits him better" than the .338 Lapua. It's all about good eyes, calm nerves, and experience.

February 16, 2013, 07:48 PM	#1
bigdaddy123 Member Join Date: July 8, 2012 Location: Southeast Mississippi Posts: 41	338 Lapua vs.300 mag. I was thinking about getting into long-range shooting and these two calibers are popular choices.Any info.or suggestions will be appreciated.

February 16, 2013, 08:32 PM	#2
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: On the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 8,242	Some questions need to be answered first. 1. Do you need a .300 WM or .338 Lapua to accomplish your long range goals? 2. What is your idea of long range? 3. What is your experience level with rifles? 4. Do you reload or are you willing to invest in equipment and learn? 5. Do you own a Chronograph? 6. Do you have a place (shoot) to take advantage of a rifle chambered in .338 Lapua? Number one is pretty easy, as there are a lot of cartridges that will get you long range shooting much cheaper than the two choices you gave. Two, everyone has a different idea of long range to me it doesn't really start until you get north of 600 yards. Three, with the two cartridges you selected you can't usually jump right into them and expect to shoot well. Four, good quality ammunition for both is expensive. Far more so for the .338 Lapua. If you want to shoot you'll need deep pockets or reload to make it affordable long term. Five, you'll need a good chronograph to measure your speed to work your drops. Six, if your not shooting 800 yards and beyond all the time, the .338 Lapua is usually far more rifle than anyone needs. __________________ NRA Life Member

February 16, 2013, 09:46 PM	#4
steveNChunter Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2012 Location: Southern Appalachian Mtns Posts: 1,520	The .338 will have less drop at those ranges and will also resist the wind better. The Savage 11/111 Long Range Hunter would be a good rifle. Other than that I'm not a good source of long-range info. __________________ DEO VINDICE

February 17, 2013, 10:24 AM	#5
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: On the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 8,242	I wasn't really asking what rifles you own, but as to what your experience was shooting rifles. 1200-1400 yards can be done without going to the .300 WM or .338 Lapua. 1000 yards with 7mm RM 7mm WSM 1400 yards 2000 yards 7mm WSM I realize these video's have the 7mm WSM going past 1000 yards, but the 7mm RM and the WSM are similar in capabilities. So if it were me, I wouldn't invest in a new rifle yet. I'd take that 7mm RM Browning of yours and use the money you want to spend on the rifle and buy good optics and reloading gear. Strech the legs on it and then possibly invest in a larger caliber rifle later on. You're looking at a minimum of $2.5K investment in a decent LR rifle and scope before reloading equipment. It's your money and your call but that is what I'd do before going after a rifle in .338 Lapua. __________________ NRA Life Member

February 17, 2013, 10:44 PM	#14
Matno Member Join Date: June 19, 2012 Posts: 19	Re: 338 Lapua vs.300 mag. And as for the original topic, I would LOVE both, but practicality wins this one. I've had a .300 win mag for over 20 years and love it to death.

February 16, 2013, 09:18 PM	#3
bigdaddy123 Member Join Date: July 8, 2012 Location: Southeast Mississippi Posts: 41	Yes, I need one or the other for 1200-1400 yard shooting.Experience with rifles -Palmetto State AR M4 carbine,DPMS Sweet 16,Savage Scout .308,CZ 527 carbine 7.62x39,Yugo Sks,Marlin 336 30-30,H&R Buffalo Classic 45-70,Browning 7 mag.Next step is reloading with this purchase.I do have access to longer distances.Trying to narrow down my wish list.

February 17, 2013, 01:08 PM	#6
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,805	taylorce1 usually knows what he is talking about and I have always valued his opinions. I'll just add that the military looked hard at the 338 Lapua before deciding on the 300 WM. A new world record benchrest record was recently set with a 300 WSM. http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...-with-300-wsm/ The .300's have something going for them, and on paper at least a 7 mag looks at least as good. I'd start with the 7 and by the time you get really good at 800 or so with it you'll know what you need to go farther

February 17, 2013, 03:21 PM	#7
allaroundhunter Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2012 Location: Southeast Texas Posts: 1,670	What is up with all of the .338 Lapua threads recently?..... The .338 Lapua doesn't come into it's own until you get out past 1500 yards. Until then, there are many calibers better suited for the job, including the .300 WM. Like jmr40, I have great respect for talorce1's thoughts on the long range subject, and actually go back through his posts when I have a question or two. I went out and watched a couple friends shoot at the 1,250 yard range yesterday, and neither of them were shooting a .30+ caliber gun. One was shooting a 6XC, which I was thoroughly impressed with, and the other was shooting a 7mm WSM. They were each hitting a 10" plate consistently, and the 6XC hit it 8 times in a row... I have never shot at that distance, but that is shooting sub-moa... with more than just environmental factors to figure in...

February 17, 2013, 06:10 PM	#8
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,423	I'd listen and do whatever Taylorce and CraigWY say. They are the experts.

February 17, 2013, 07:49 PM	#9
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	From what I glean from the long range benchrest folks, the larger 30 calibers take home more bacon than the others at 1000 yards. For shoulder fired rifles in long range prone matches (600 yards plus), the 26 and 28 calibers are the favorites these days except for Palma matches where the .308 Win. or .223 Rem. are the only cartridges allowed. All the popular long range cartridges for both benchrest and prone matches will shoot with equal accuracy; under 6 to 7 inches at 1000 yards. Those with less recoil are easier to shoot accurately off the shoulder; doesn't matter with free recoiling benchrest guns. Once in a (great) while, one will cluster 5 shots inside 2 inches at 1000 yards and everybody's ga-ga over that marvelous accuracy. Few, if any, realize those extremly-tiny few-shot groups happen only when all the variables cancel each other out. There's no accuracy difference between stiff and whippy barrels for long range accuracy. If there was, then those 30 to 32 inch long, slender, whippy 5-pound Palma rifle barrels would not shoot just as accurate as shorter, thicker ones used in long range benchrest rigs. The most repeatable thing a rifle has from shot to shot is its barrel whips and wiggles at exactly the same frequency for each shot. And at the longer ranges, whippy barrels may well shoot ammo more accurate that stiffer ones; especially when that ammo's got a wide velocity range. The Brits proved this over a century ago with their .303 Short Magazine Lee Enfields and .303 Lee Metfords. Most folks I know of will pick a cartridge for shoulder fired rifles that's more accurate to shoot than one that bucks the wind a little better. Another thing to consider is accurate barrel life at long range; no worse than 6 to 7 inches at 1000 yards. The popular 6.5x.284 and 7mm SAUM round popular in prone matches has a barrel life of about 800 rounds for best accuracy. The .308 Win.'s barrel life is about 2500 rounds. .300 Win Mags and others of that size go about 1200 rounds for best long range accuracy.

February 17, 2013, 09:03 PM	#10
bigdaddy123 Member Join Date: July 8, 2012 Location: Southeast Mississippi Posts: 41	Thanks Bart B.,I've been looking at a couple of Savage's rifles in .300 mag.Do you have any info.on the 10/110 FCP HS Percision .300 Win.Mag.?

February 17, 2013, 09:10 PM	#11
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	I dont shoot past 1000 much. Right now, .284 Winchester and 6.5X284 Norma are the dominant 1000 yd. cartridges. .284 Ackley improved is starting to take some wins as well.

February 17, 2013, 09:43 PM	#12
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	BigDaddy, no, I don't have detailed info on Savage rifles. But they do have a good reputation. But for best accuracy, use a rifle with a built in box magazine or a single shot one. Detachable magazines are notorious for each one requiring a different zero And they typically don't stay fit tight shot after shot after shot which hurts accuracy. Not using the magazine but single loading rounds, it may well should shoot pretty accurate. The 10/110 FCP HS Precision's stock is well designed for prone shooting but will need a hand stop fitted to use with a sling. It will also work well for shooting from a bench after removing the two swivel studs. Its 1:10 twist is great for 220 grain Sierra HPMK bullets from the .300 Win. Mag. case.

February 18, 2013, 03:25 PM	#15
rockincolorado Junior Member Join Date: February 17, 2013 Posts: 1	I suspect you need to shoot the rifle that makes you feel the most comfortable and fits you the best. The 2013 Army long-range service rifle championship that was held last week at Fort Benning, Ga was won with a .300 WinMag. The soldier said "it just fits him better" than the .338 Lapua. It's all about good eyes, calm nerves, and experience.