Are bullpup's "practical" for HD purposes?

Sheriff Gotcha · December 7, 2012, 04:34 AM

I was watching a video earlier of a UTS 15 which is an interesting little gun; its pretty similar to the Kel-Tec KSG. Would one of these be practical for a home defense shotgun? (Zero shotgun experience btw)

My primary interest is the UTS, but I'm unsure if its for sale to the public or not (at least not on a mass scale) and the ones I did see on gun broker were nearly $1200 which is a bit pricey. Then again the KSG's on gunbroker were $1000.

I'm not sure the extra $500 is worth it over just getting a Remmington 870 for its intended use, but I did see KSG's on sale for around $600 at Grabagun. Sold out of course but if I can find one for that much would it be just as good as the 870. I understand the 870 has a bunch of easy to find parts and accessories, but that is not going to sway my decision either way.

hogdogs · December 7, 2012, 08:28 AM

I owned a Mossberg Bullpup 500 "back in the day"... It was fun and I really tried to incorporate into my HD plan...

Truth is, I never really liked several aspects of it for this duty...

Drop down pistol grip...
Shells ejecting under my face...
Much louder due to barrel being closer to my face...

It really wasn't nearly as easy to defend from takeover in "hands on" practice...

It was not only harder to retain but in practice, as I tried to retain the weapon, I found just to many instances where I was having my own head and CoM swept by the muzzle...

More than once the muzzle ended up under my chin as I lost control of the gun and my "BG" sparring partner could easily and honestly give the "YOUR DEAD" chesire grin as I was helped from the ground...

I can just do so much more with a traditional gun layout format... Both offensively and defensively...

With that said... It was the COOLEST FUNNEST "FOR FUN" SHOTGUN I ever got to own...

Brent

Willie Sutton · December 7, 2012, 08:54 AM

Love my High Standard Model 10B, the grand-daddy of bullpup shotguns. Aboard my cruising boat it's the cabin-queen. Handles like a big pistol, effective and reliable. Nothing bad to say about it. If you do not know what these are, Google them.

For lefties... Sorry. They don't fit.

BUT: its a special purpose shotgun. If you plan to shoot from within a vehicle, in a boat cabin, or dismounting thru a hatch they are great. For general self defense? I'd stick to the old standards. Remington 870 or Mossberg.

Willie
.

Double Naught Spy · December 7, 2012, 09:58 AM

hogdog's shells ejecting into face would be a complete no-go on a gun for me, any gun. He said "under" but if the shells are passing under then a slight tilt and they would be into the face. Beyond that, there is no reason bullpups would not be practical for HD. In fact, they may be much more practice for HD than other shotguns simply because of their reduced length which makes them more viable for use around corners and tight places.

There are advantages and disadvantages regardless of gun length, but for interiors, I prefer shorter guns.

I have a short Rem 870 with an 18" barrel and Knoxx Spec Ops stock without its recoil pad that is a bit shorter than a youth model 870. It still comes in at a whopping 36". The KSG is some 10" shorter which is impressive. The High Standard and UTS are comparable.

Slopemeno · December 7, 2012, 10:02 AM

+1 on the 10B. I've got quite a bit of trigger time on two of them back in the '80s. I even shot a round of sporting clays with one, and it didn't do half bad on the close stuff. Somewhere there' a picture of me dual-weilding both 10B's at arms length at 10 pepper poppers, huge muzzle flashes going...

That said, my 18" 870 is tiny and effective, and the price difference was significant (only $140.0 for an 18" Police 870 with a factory extension) so..

hogdogs · December 7, 2012, 10:14 AM

Shooting right handed it wasn't shells into the face, just that it was very visible and easily distracting and it was noticeably dirty to the shooter due to the smoke and debris that comes out of the ejection port on fast fire (which was just so much fun) leaving the shooter's face dirty in no time compared to a gun with the port well out front in clean air...

It made serious practice less fun and also a possible demerit point in HD consideration...

But the drop down grips making it so much less defendable was the reason I chose other arms for that...

In a cramped area of small cruising yachts, I would reconsider and it might be the ideal shotgun for that... For a boat rifle, I wanted to try a "bullpup" configured BAR in .30-06

Brent

December 7, 2012, 04:34 AM	#1
Sheriff Gotcha Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2012 Location: The Keystone State Posts: 236	Are bullpup's "practical" for HD purposes? I was watching a video earlier of a UTS 15 which is an interesting little gun; its pretty similar to the Kel-Tec KSG. Would one of these be practical for a home defense shotgun? (Zero shotgun experience btw) My primary interest is the UTS, but I'm unsure if its for sale to the public or not (at least not on a mass scale) and the ones I did see on gun broker were nearly $1200 which is a bit pricey. Then again the KSG's on gunbroker were $1000. I'm not sure the extra $500 is worth it over just getting a Remmington 870 for its intended use, but I did see KSG's on sale for around $600 at Grabagun. Sold out of course but if I can find one for that much would it be just as good as the 870. I understand the 870 has a bunch of easy to find parts and accessories, but that is not going to sway my decision either way.

December 7, 2012, 09:58 AM	#4
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	hogdog's shells ejecting into face would be a complete no-go on a gun for me, any gun. He said "under" but if the shells are passing under then a slight tilt and they would be into the face. Beyond that, there is no reason bullpups would not be practical for HD. In fact, they may be much more practice for HD than other shotguns simply because of their reduced length which makes them more viable for use around corners and tight places. There are advantages and disadvantages regardless of gun length, but for interiors, I prefer shorter guns. I have a short Rem 870 with an 18" barrel and Knoxx Spec Ops stock without its recoil pad that is a bit shorter than a youth model 870. It still comes in at a whopping 36". The KSG is some 10" shorter which is impressive. The High Standard and UTS are comparable. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

December 7, 2012, 08:28 AM	#2
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	I owned a Mossberg Bullpup 500 "back in the day"... It was fun and I really tried to incorporate into my HD plan... Truth is, I never really liked several aspects of it for this duty... Drop down pistol grip... Shells ejecting under my face... Much louder due to barrel being closer to my face... It really wasn't nearly as easy to defend from takeover in "hands on" practice... It was not only harder to retain but in practice, as I tried to retain the weapon, I found just to many instances where I was having my own head and CoM swept by the muzzle... More than once the muzzle ended up under my chin as I lost control of the gun and my "BG" sparring partner could easily and honestly give the "YOUR DEAD" chesire grin as I was helped from the ground... I can just do so much more with a traditional gun layout format... Both offensively and defensively... With that said... It was the COOLEST FUNNEST "FOR FUN" SHOTGUN I ever got to own... Brent

December 7, 2012, 08:54 AM	#3
Willie Sutton Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2012 Posts: 1,066	Love my High Standard Model 10B, the grand-daddy of bullpup shotguns. Aboard my cruising boat it's the cabin-queen. Handles like a big pistol, effective and reliable. Nothing bad to say about it. If you do not know what these are, Google them. For lefties... Sorry. They don't fit. BUT: its a special purpose shotgun. If you plan to shoot from within a vehicle, in a boat cabin, or dismounting thru a hatch they are great. For general self defense? I'd stick to the old standards. Remington 870 or Mossberg. Willie .

December 7, 2012, 10:02 AM	#5
Slopemeno Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2007 Posts: 2,663	+1 on the 10B. I've got quite a bit of trigger time on two of them back in the '80s. I even shot a round of sporting clays with one, and it didn't do half bad on the close stuff. Somewhere there' a picture of me dual-weilding both 10B's at arms length at 10 pepper poppers, huge muzzle flashes going... That said, my 18" 870 is tiny and effective, and the price difference was significant (only $140.0 for an 18" Police 870 with a factory extension) so..

December 7, 2012, 10:14 AM	#6
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Shooting right handed it wasn't shells into the face, just that it was very visible and easily distracting and it was noticeably dirty to the shooter due to the smoke and debris that comes out of the ejection port on fast fire (which was just so much fun) leaving the shooter's face dirty in no time compared to a gun with the port well out front in clean air... It made serious practice less fun and also a possible demerit point in HD consideration... But the drop down grips making it so much less defendable was the reason I chose other arms for that... In a cramped area of small cruising yachts, I would reconsider and it might be the ideal shotgun for that... For a boat rifle, I wanted to try a "bullpup" configured BAR in .30-06 Brent