Moly

mrawesome22 · September 26, 2006, 12:16 PM

Well guys I've finally found my pet load for my .22-250. 36.4gr Varget with a 50gr V-Max. Win case, WLR primer. 2.485" O.A.L. I've been trying to find info on moly and it seems confusing at best. Some say you have to use a totally different cleaning technique and some say you have to clean the same but half often. Anyone got an opinion on moly? If it helps copper fouling one bit I'll be all for them. Take care of yourselves out there.

Scorch · September 26, 2006, 12:27 PM

As you found, even the experts on the subject have differing opinions about moly. Moly is a fantastic friction reducer. It coats the inside of your bore and will reduce copper fouling on barrels. However, it builds up on metal surfaces (adds dimension), it is hygroscopic (absorbs water from the atmosphere), and is a sulphur salt (molybdenum disulphide). When you add all those together it can potentially cause problems with firearms if you do not clean after use.

To be safe, clean your rifle after using moly coated bullets, and use moly treated bullets within a reasonable period of time of treating them.

I have read about pre-treating your barrel before shooting, but I am not sure if it works or not.

mrawesome22 · September 26, 2006, 12:47 PM

Well Scorch, would you recommend them? I clean my guns as soon as I'm done shooting them so that won't be a problem. If it coats the barrel, does it come off with normal cleaning techniques? If it has antifriction capabilities, that would have to mean less fouling and longer barrel life, correct? Another thing I was thinking was that the moly would get scraped off the bullet as I seated it. Or does it plate to the copper at the molecular level? Hell, the moly's are cheaper than the non-moly's right now. Don't know how. They must not be selling well.

Ausserordeutlich · September 26, 2006, 04:34 PM

Wish I'd listened to the information that Scorch furnished, when I previously heard it. Consequently, I have a totally rusted-out barrel on my Remington .223 VS. Thought I had all the moly out when I put it up in the safe. Nothing else in the safe rusted.

Scorch · September 26, 2006, 05:54 PM

I don't use them and don't recommend that other people do. On the other hand, there are an awful lot of shooters out there that swear by moly coated bullets.

amamnn · September 30, 2006, 01:47 AM

if you are having fouling problems, moly can help some. However, unless you live and shoot in a very dry place, it's probably better to stay away from moly altogether. If you must use moly, use the paste, not moly coated bullets and scrub your barrel squeaky clean before you apply it.

brickeyee · September 30, 2006, 05:31 PM

"...is a sulphur salt (molybdenum disulphide"

Not everything containing sulpher is a salt, and slats use ionic bonding.
MoS2 has neither ionic bonds nor an alkali tpye metal to make it a salt.

cdoc42 · October 1, 2006, 02:12 PM

I started moly-coating my bullets in 1995. Never saw any improvement in accuracy, although original claims never stressed that, just less time cleaning due to less copper left behind.

Did see a drop in velocity, due to bullet spending less time in the barrel due to reduced friction. Overcome that with higher powder charge weight.

What frustrated me most was cleaning the rifles. Simply could not tell when things were clean as patches consistently came out black.

Prescision Shooting magazine stood behind moly and against detractors, so I kept doing it.

Finally quit when my 7mm STW lost accuracy. Used to get 100-yard groups between 0.5-1.0 inches and these started to spread to over 3 inches, no matter what I did. Thought struck me that moly may have been building due to shot after shot accumulation. since moly easily washed off my hands with soap and water, I cleaned the rifle for 5 DAYS with dish soap, then 20Mule Team Borax, then everything else I owned, thoroughly drying due to fears of rust due to water, etc. No luck. Rifle still wouldn't shoot like it used to.

I've since taken every bullet I moly'd and ran them through the vibratory case cleaner with corn cob to remove all moly.

Perhaps had I just moly'd the barrel it would have been different. But back then, doing the bullets was the "answer."

Ausserordeutlich · October 1, 2006, 02:52 PM

cdoc: My VS went, literally, from shooting in the low 2's to keyholing @ 100 yds. Nothing left for me to do but rebarrel.

ZeroJunk · October 1, 2006, 03:07 PM

Anybody want to buy some Barnes moly-coated X-Bullets?

amamnn · October 1, 2006, 10:20 PM

A point of interest-- the drop in velocity in moly coated bullets is not because of reduced friction in the barrel, which in moly paste coated barrels causes an increase in muzzle velocity, but is caused by the bullet entering the throat easier and thus reducing start pressure. According to studies, moly molybdenum disulphide) can combine with moisture and/or products of combustion to form sulfuric acid in the barrel of a rifle. Shooting more moly over it causes the corrosive chemicals formed to be protected from normal cleaning agents. Moly does not just coat metal it chemically combines with it, so you can see why it is important to thoroughly clean the barrel before applying moly. There are many, many match shooters who trumpeted the benefits of moly some years ago, many of them are sorry now, with stories like the ones posted above.
If I were still living in AZ I would not worry about using moly paste. Since I moved to WA I have continued to use it in one BR gun since I started back in AZ, but I have not used it on any new rifles.

September 26, 2006, 12:16 PM	#1
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	Moly Well guys I've finally found my pet load for my .22-250. 36.4gr Varget with a 50gr V-Max. Win case, WLR primer. 2.485" O.A.L. I've been trying to find info on moly and it seems confusing at best. Some say you have to use a totally different cleaning technique and some say you have to clean the same but half often. Anyone got an opinion on moly? If it helps copper fouling one bit I'll be all for them. Take care of yourselves out there.

September 26, 2006, 12:27 PM	#2
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	As you found, even the experts on the subject have differing opinions about moly. Moly is a fantastic friction reducer. It coats the inside of your bore and will reduce copper fouling on barrels. However, it builds up on metal surfaces (adds dimension), it is hygroscopic (absorbs water from the atmosphere), and is a sulphur salt (molybdenum disulphide). When you add all those together it can potentially cause problems with firearms if you do not clean after use. To be safe, clean your rifle after using moly coated bullets, and use moly treated bullets within a reasonable period of time of treating them. I have read about pre-treating your barrel before shooting, but I am not sure if it works or not. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

September 26, 2006, 05:54 PM	#5
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	I don't use them and don't recommend that other people do. On the other hand, there are an awful lot of shooters out there that swear by moly coated bullets. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

September 30, 2006, 01:47 AM	#6
amamnn Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2006 Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA Posts: 1,323	if you are having fouling problems, moly can help some. However, unless you live and shoot in a very dry place, it's probably better to stay away from moly altogether. If you must use moly, use the paste, not moly coated bullets and scrub your barrel squeaky clean before you apply it. __________________ "If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal

October 1, 2006, 10:20 PM	#11
amamnn Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2006 Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA Posts: 1,323	A point of interest-- the drop in velocity in moly coated bullets is not because of reduced friction in the barrel, which in moly paste coated barrels causes an increase in muzzle velocity, but is caused by the bullet entering the throat easier and thus reducing start pressure. According to studies, moly molybdenum disulphide) can combine with moisture and/or products of combustion to form sulfuric acid in the barrel of a rifle. Shooting more moly over it causes the corrosive chemicals formed to be protected from normal cleaning agents. Moly does not just coat metal it chemically combines with it, so you can see why it is important to thoroughly clean the barrel before applying moly. There are many, many match shooters who trumpeted the benefits of moly some years ago, many of them are sorry now, with stories like the ones posted above. If I were still living in AZ I would not worry about using moly paste. Since I moved to WA I have continued to use it in one BR gun since I started back in AZ, but I have not used it on any new rifles. __________________ "If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal

September 26, 2006, 12:47 PM	#3
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	Well Scorch, would you recommend them? I clean my guns as soon as I'm done shooting them so that won't be a problem. If it coats the barrel, does it come off with normal cleaning techniques? If it has antifriction capabilities, that would have to mean less fouling and longer barrel life, correct? Another thing I was thinking was that the moly would get scraped off the bullet as I seated it. Or does it plate to the copper at the molecular level? Hell, the moly's are cheaper than the non-moly's right now. Don't know how. They must not be selling well.

September 26, 2006, 04:34 PM	#4
Ausserordeutlich Junior member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Posts: 996	Wish I'd listened to the information that Scorch furnished, when I previously heard it. Consequently, I have a totally rusted-out barrel on my Remington .223 VS. Thought I had all the moly out when I put it up in the safe. Nothing else in the safe rusted.

September 30, 2006, 05:31 PM	#7
brickeyee Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2004 Posts: 3,351	"...is a sulphur salt (molybdenum disulphide" Not everything containing sulpher is a salt, and slats use ionic bonding. MoS2 has neither ionic bonds nor an alkali tpye metal to make it a salt.

October 1, 2006, 02:12 PM	#8
cdoc42 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,687	I started moly-coating my bullets in 1995. Never saw any improvement in accuracy, although original claims never stressed that, just less time cleaning due to less copper left behind. Did see a drop in velocity, due to bullet spending less time in the barrel due to reduced friction. Overcome that with higher powder charge weight. What frustrated me most was cleaning the rifles. Simply could not tell when things were clean as patches consistently came out black. Prescision Shooting magazine stood behind moly and against detractors, so I kept doing it. Finally quit when my 7mm STW lost accuracy. Used to get 100-yard groups between 0.5-1.0 inches and these started to spread to over 3 inches, no matter what I did. Thought struck me that moly may have been building due to shot after shot accumulation. since moly easily washed off my hands with soap and water, I cleaned the rifle for 5 DAYS with dish soap, then 20Mule Team Borax, then everything else I owned, thoroughly drying due to fears of rust due to water, etc. No luck. Rifle still wouldn't shoot like it used to. I've since taken every bullet I moly'd and ran them through the vibratory case cleaner with corn cob to remove all moly. Perhaps had I just moly'd the barrel it would have been different. But back then, doing the bullets was the "answer."

October 1, 2006, 02:52 PM	#9
Ausserordeutlich Junior member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Posts: 996	cdoc: My VS went, literally, from shooting in the low 2's to keyholing @ 100 yds. Nothing left for me to do but rebarrel.

October 1, 2006, 03:07 PM	#10
ZeroJunk Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2006 Location: Browns Summit NC Posts: 2,589	Anybody want to buy some Barnes moly-coated X-Bullets?