30-30 help

souther33 · April 4, 2015, 04:14 PM

I am loading some 30-30 for a friend and am using 150gr FN Sierra and can only find data on RN. Will RN data be ok to use for FN projectiles. i have tried to get my hands on a Sierra book but everyone who would have one is closed for Easter holiday. Dose anyone have Sierra data available. I am using ramshot TAC powder.

William T. Watts · April 4, 2015, 04:27 PM

IMR3031 Min 27.5gr Max 31.1gr
IMR4895 Min 28.9gr Max 31.7gr
IMR4064 Min 28.7gr Max 32.2gr

FC cases were used with WLR Primers!

These are commonly used powders for the 30/30 with 150gr Sierra FN Bullets!! If you interested in another powder I'll try to help!!

Sorry, Ramshot is not one of the powders listed in the Sierra manual, I believe Ramshot Tac to be a double base (ball powder), I have no experience with this powder so I'm not going to be able to help you.. If you decide to use the Ramshot Tac powder I would suggest you go to the manufactures website for confirmation what the minimum and max load for this powder is for the 30/30. If it isn't listed you can be reasonable sure this powder isn't suitable for your friends 30/30.. William

souther33 · April 4, 2015, 05:01 PM

TAC powder is on ramshots website for 30-30 but only for a RN... Figures

Paul B. · April 4, 2015, 05:30 PM

Let's keep this simple. You can use the round nose data with your flat nose bullets. OK? Bullet weight for both is the same. Just start with the lowest loads and carefully work up. Shouldn't be any problem at all.
Paul B.

souther33 · April 5, 2015, 05:21 PM

I would think that the RN would be faster then the FN so if using the same charge as the RN would the FN be slower?

**Unclenick** · April 5, 2015, 05:38 PM

No. The round nose is more aerodynamically shaped than a flat nose, so it loses velocity to air drag more slowly once it is out of the muzzle. But inside the barrel, it is just an accelerating mass that responds to the accelerating force of the pressure behind it without regard to its shape. This is why, in theory, same weight bullets should all work with the same powder charges.

In practice, however, not all bullets have the same jacket thickness or hardness, affecting how much start pressure is needed to get them swaged into the rifling. They aren't all the same density or shape, so the amount of room they take away from the powder space under them differs, also affecting pressure. So while the theory says they should use the same charge, the reality is that changing bullets (or primers, or cases, or even powder lot numbers sometimes) can alter pressure enough that you always want to go down to the starting loads listed and work up slowly, watching for signs of pressure.

Will-j · April 18, 2015, 02:31 PM

Unclenick; You're correct. Though I've often found that round nosed bullets in most calibers are sometimes more accurate than their spitzer counterparts. Also, the longer body length of some bullets in the same caliber/weight can/will increase friction and therefore increase pressures. I've alleviated that problem to some extent by adding extra cannelures to some of those bullets (HORNADY FTXs in .308 and .44 cal.; GMXs in 7MM and .308cal. and. to some boat tails which have a habit of core/jacket separation) with a CORBIN CANNELURE tool.
Takes time, patience, and diligence in adjustment to keep all spacing precise, but in the end it's worth it. I messed up a few in learning to set up the tool correctly but the results were a lot better than I expected. Accuracy was not affected to any great degree (for hunting loads/purposes, and velocities increased in some by a few FPS, but the best thing was that the boat tails stayed together more and drove deeper when fired into soaked newspaper. I can't understand why the manufacturers don't do the same to their boat tails.
WILL

green_MTman · April 18, 2015, 04:51 PM

i cant see any problem is using RN data for FN bullets,if anything the FN would be lower in pressure.always reduce by 5% and work back up with "ANY" bullet change.

P.S most people i know dont bother to reload the 30-30,it does not need great accuracy

Salmoneye · April 19, 2015, 06:52 AM

Quote:

P.S most people i know dont bother to reload the 30-30,it does not need great accuracy

Regardless of caliber, 'most people' don't bother to reload period...

As with most other calibers, there are a number of reasons to reload for the .30-30; only one of which is 'accuracy'...

green_MTman · April 19, 2015, 09:52 AM

yes very very true

LE-28 · April 20, 2015, 05:33 AM

Especially with an old Winchester 94 that has a long chamber like so many of them had. Then it becomes head spacing on the shoulder in stead of head spacing on the deep cut rim area, to get much better accuracy.
Now we are into strictly a reloading issue to fix accuracy issues.

But that's not what the OP asked so I'll shut up now.

TimSr · April 20, 2015, 07:44 AM

You didn't mention what powder you are using. If you ever question your data source, look at another one such as the powder mfg's website.

Jim Watson · April 20, 2015, 08:38 AM

Speer is honest about it, they show all bullets of the same weight over the table of load data for that weight. They even let you load 165 gr spitzers the same as 170 gr flatpoint (Assuming you know how to manage pointed bullets in a .30-30.) Amazing.

I would want specific data for a solid copper bullet, but the conventional cup and core bullets do not inform the powder charge what the nose shape is.

Will-j · April 21, 2015, 08:56 AM

JIM W: What SPEER does not tell you in their reloading data is [that] they show the load data only for the bullet which has the greatest friction coefficient and the resulting highest pressure for that particular weight group, and that each individual bullet may have separate powder/weight load data.
I asked them 'why so' years ago and I was told [that] it would be too costly to test each bullet individually, so they lumped them together and listed the powder/weight data for the bullet with the highest pressure readings and therefore the other bullets would be safe to load too. That's why the heavier 170gr FP bullet (less friction) included in the lighter 165gr (higher friction)spritzer.
This was back in the late '80s, and I don't think it has changed since.
WILL.

April 4, 2015, 04:14 PM	#1
souther33 Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Location: Northwest Georgia Posts: 59	30-30 help I am loading some 30-30 for a friend and am using 150gr FN Sierra and can only find data on RN. Will RN data be ok to use for FN projectiles. i have tried to get my hands on a Sierra book but everyone who would have one is closed for Easter holiday. Dose anyone have Sierra data available. I am using ramshot TAC powder.

April 4, 2015, 04:27 PM	#2
William T. Watts Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2010 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 1,074	This info is from Sierra reloading manual 4th edition! IMR3031 Min 27.5gr Max 31.1gr IMR4895 Min 28.9gr Max 31.7gr IMR4064 Min 28.7gr Max 32.2gr FC cases were used with WLR Primers! These are commonly used powders for the 30/30 with 150gr Sierra FN Bullets!! If you interested in another powder I'll try to help!! Sorry, Ramshot is not one of the powders listed in the Sierra manual, I believe Ramshot Tac to be a double base (ball powder), I have no experience with this powder so I'm not going to be able to help you.. If you decide to use the Ramshot Tac powder I would suggest you go to the manufactures website for confirmation what the minimum and max load for this powder is for the 30/30. If it isn't listed you can be reasonable sure this powder isn't suitable for your friends 30/30.. William Last edited by William T. Watts; April 4, 2015 at 04:45 PM.

April 4, 2015, 05:01 PM	#3
souther33 Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Location: Northwest Georgia Posts: 59	TAC powder TAC powder is on ramshots website for 30-30 but only for a RN... Figures

April 4, 2015, 05:30 PM	#4
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,802	Let's keep this simple. You can use the round nose data with your flat nose bullets. OK? Bullet weight for both is the same. Just start with the lowest loads and carefully work up. Shouldn't be any problem at all. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

April 5, 2015, 05:21 PM	#5
souther33 Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Location: Northwest Georgia Posts: 59	RN vs FN velocity I would think that the RN would be faster then the FN so if using the same charge as the RN would the FN be slower?

April 5, 2015, 05:38 PM	#6
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	No. The round nose is more aerodynamically shaped than a flat nose, so it loses velocity to air drag more slowly once it is out of the muzzle. But inside the barrel, it is just an accelerating mass that responds to the accelerating force of the pressure behind it without regard to its shape. This is why, in theory, same weight bullets should all work with the same powder charges. In practice, however, not all bullets have the same jacket thickness or hardness, affecting how much start pressure is needed to get them swaged into the rifling. They aren't all the same density or shape, so the amount of room they take away from the powder space under them differs, also affecting pressure. So while the theory says they should use the same charge, the reality is that changing bullets (or primers, or cases, or even powder lot numbers sometimes) can alter pressure enough that you always want to go down to the starting loads listed and work up slowly, watching for signs of pressure. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

April 18, 2015, 02:31 PM	#7
Will-j Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2014 Location: SW Ga. Near Ft. Benning Posts: 251	.30-30 help Unclenick; You're correct. Though I've often found that round nosed bullets in most calibers are sometimes more accurate than their spitzer counterparts. Also, the longer body length of some bullets in the same caliber/weight can/will increase friction and therefore increase pressures. I've alleviated that problem to some extent by adding extra cannelures to some of those bullets (HORNADY FTXs in .308 and .44 cal.; GMXs in 7MM and .308cal. and. to some boat tails which have a habit of core/jacket separation) with a CORBIN CANNELURE tool. Takes time, patience, and diligence in adjustment to keep all spacing precise, but in the end it's worth it. I messed up a few in learning to set up the tool correctly but the results were a lot better than I expected. Accuracy was not affected to any great degree (for hunting loads/purposes, and velocities increased in some by a few FPS, but the best thing was that the boat tails stayed together more and drove deeper when fired into soaked newspaper. I can't understand why the manufacturers don't do the same to their boat tails. WILL

April 18, 2015, 04:51 PM	#8
green_MTman Senior Member Join Date: March 27, 2014 Location: southeastern Vermont,USA Posts: 325	i cant see any problem is using RN data for FN bullets,if anything the FN would be lower in pressure.always reduce by 5% and work back up with "ANY" bullet change. P.S most people i know dont bother to reload the 30-30,it does not need great accuracy

April 19, 2015, 09:52 AM	#10
green_MTman Senior Member Join Date: March 27, 2014 Location: southeastern Vermont,USA Posts: 325	yes very very true

April 20, 2015, 05:33 AM	#11
LE-28 Senior Member Join Date: September 24, 2012 Location: North Carolina Posts: 759	Especially with an old Winchester 94 that has a long chamber like so many of them had. Then it becomes head spacing on the shoulder in stead of head spacing on the deep cut rim area, to get much better accuracy. Now we are into strictly a reloading issue to fix accuracy issues. But that's not what the OP asked so I'll shut up now.

April 20, 2015, 07:44 AM	#12
TimSr Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Rittman, Ohio Posts: 2,074	You didn't mention what powder you are using. If you ever question your data source, look at another one such as the powder mfg's website.

April 20, 2015, 08:38 AM	#13
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,544	Speer is honest about it, they show all bullets of the same weight over the table of load data for that weight. They even let you load 165 gr spitzers the same as 170 gr flatpoint (Assuming you know how to manage pointed bullets in a .30-30.) Amazing. I would want specific data for a solid copper bullet, but the conventional cup and core bullets do not inform the powder charge what the nose shape is.

April 21, 2015, 08:56 AM	#14
Will-j Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2014 Location: SW Ga. Near Ft. Benning Posts: 251	Re: Speer is honest about it JIM W: What SPEER does not tell you in their reloading data is [that] they show the load data only for the bullet which has the greatest friction coefficient and the resulting highest pressure for that particular weight group, and that each individual bullet may have separate powder/weight load data. I asked them 'why so' years ago and I was told [that] it would be too costly to test each bullet individually, so they lumped them together and listed the powder/weight data for the bullet with the highest pressure readings and therefore the other bullets would be safe to load too. That's why the heavier 170gr FP bullet (less friction) included in the lighter 165gr (higher friction)spritzer. This was back in the late '80s, and I don't think it has changed since. WILL. Last edited by Will-j; April 21, 2015 at 09:05 AM.