Problem with my reloads

graham82 · November 5, 2008, 01:46 PM

I have been reloading for my .308WIN and 30-06 (both bolt action) for about 10 months. Recently I have been having problems chambering some of my reloads. When I try to lock my bolt down, some of the bullets are making it hard to close the bolt or are much harder than I want to try.

I am using a Lee Classic turret press with the deluxe rifle dies. I am neck sizing the brass after it has been fire formed. I thought I could correct my problem by resetting the neck sizing die, but that did not seem to help.

I feel like the problem is something simple that I am probably missing. I would appreciate some ideas and help.

ryalred · November 5, 2008, 02:02 PM

Have you tried full length sizing your brass to see if that makes a difference?

I'm assuming you've trimmed cases to the correct length.

You can check a case to see if the bolt closes without priming, charging, and seating a bullet. Take the sized brass and hand load it into the chamber and see if the bolt closes easily. If it does, it will most likely close easily after the completed reloading process.

tkofoid · November 5, 2008, 05:04 PM

my guess is you are not getting enough headspace. The shoulder may have to be pushed back by way of a full length die.

BurkGlocker · November 5, 2008, 05:39 PM

I had a problem with my cases being different lengths, after sizing they would fit my chamber and the bolt closed easily, but when I seated the bullets it was bulging the shoulders ever so slightly, making the bolt hard to close. If youre case trimming after sizing, make sure they are all the same length before seating the bullet. This might help, but only my $.02.

Sevens · November 5, 2008, 05:45 PM

Sometimes this can be as simple as not seating a bullet deep enough. COAL may be the same as it was with a previous load that worked, but if the shape of the bullet isn't the same, it may be making contact somewhere.

Grahamwb · November 5, 2008, 09:36 PM

I'm having the same problem with my 6.5x55 cases. I think they were shot in a different gun than I want to use them in and the headspace is different. I guess I will have to order a full size die.

Grahamwb · November 5, 2008, 09:39 PM

Graham, are you 82 years old. I'm only 81.

Shoney · November 5, 2008, 10:54 PM

Did you measure the case length?

They may need trimming.

butta9999 · November 6, 2008, 02:05 AM

Graham82

Depending on how many times you have fired the case and reloaded it seems to be time to bump the shoulder back with a full length die. Be sure to check case length before and after sizing.

If your neck die has an expander plug that will always stretch your case necks when its on the way out. That is why it pays to check length after neck sizing. I would invest in a Lee collet neck, it has a mandrel and there is no need for any lube. Also stretching of the neck is zero because the neck is squeezed onto the mandrel.

In a normal neck die the neck is sized a few fhou smaller then sized correctly with the expander plug.

Be sure to correctly set up your FL die, it will always stretch your case before bumping the shoulder back. If the die is not set down far enough your reloads will be hard to chamber as well.

When setting your die keep screwing the die down a fraction of a turn until your case chambers with the slightest feel to the bolt. In most cases you will be slightly overcam with your press.

Be sure to lube the case with every time you size it, the slightest turn down on your die cn have your case stuck if there is not enough lube.

Another tip is not too use too much lube as it will build up on the shoulder area on the die and cause dents in the shoulder of your case.

Its always great if we could always neck size all the time but that is not possible.

I only FL size my cases 4-5 times depending on the load and then disregard my brass. Every time you FL size and trim your brass that is brass that has flowed up from the case head. Most times a partial or full head seperation can occur.

This is because there is thinning of the case walls and something has to give eventually.

Grahamwb

Cases will not fire from two different rifles in same caliber if not FL sized. Be sure if only neck sizing to keep them seperate from a friends rifle if the same caliber. All chambers vary the slightest.

Smaug · November 6, 2008, 09:22 AM

If you're shooting it from the same rifle, fire-formed cases should fit. They'll be snug, but nothing ridiculous.

That leaves case trimming. On necked rifle cartridges, the brass flows out when you shoot it.

Lee makes a simple case trimming outfit that works perfectly for something like $5. Chuck the cutter in your drill and you're in business.

graham82 · November 6, 2008, 04:03 PM

Thanks for the replies. Here are a couple of things I have ruled out as likely causes for my problem.

My COAL measures ok. I am not FL sizing(only neck sizing with my Lee collet die), so I don't think the shoulder should need to be pushed back. The cases are fire formed in the same gun I am reloading for.

Some questions popped up while reading the replies.
I always trim my cases with the Lee hand case trimmer before I neck size. Should I size then trim?

butta9999

I do not have a way to measure headspace. Does setting up a FL die the way you described help set the proper headspace or should I buy something to measure headspace?

Grahamwb

I'm not 82 years old yet but some days it sure feels like it.

graham82 · November 6, 2008, 04:14 PM

Thanks for the replies. Here are a couple of things I have ruled out as likely causes for my problem.

My COAL measures ok. I am not FL sizing(only neck sizing with my Lee collet die), so I don't think the shoulder should need to be pushed back. The cases are fire formed in the same gun I am reloading for.

Some questions popped up while reading the replies.
I always trim my cases with the Lee hand case trimmer before I neck size. Should I size then trim?

butta9999

I do not have a way to measure headspace. Does setting up a FL die the way you described help set the proper headspace or should I buy something to measure headspace?

Grahamwb

I'm not 82 years old yet but some days it sure feels like it.

rn22723 · November 6, 2008, 04:48 PM

You need to size cases before trimming.
You may need to FL size cases after a few neck sized firings.

elkman06 · November 6, 2008, 04:51 PM

I always size before trimming. Just kinda makes sense that this is what the finished product should be.
Also, my Dad ran into the same length issue on his 300wm. Finally figured it out. His table/base was somewhat flexible and he was using very little lube. Now I know you're not supposed to be lubing the neck, however, when he would upstroke the press to remove the case, there was enough drag via the decapping pin holder that it would lenghthen the case as it was removed. We stiffened his table mount and used a bit more lube on the case and all issues went away.
elkman06

wncchester · November 6, 2008, 04:57 PM

"some of the bullets are making it hard to close the bolt or are much harder than I want to try."

If you're trimming each time, it's NOT excess case length.

If the BULLETS are making it hard to chamber your cartidges, seat them deeper.

If the case itself is making it hard to chamber your carridges, pull the bullets, FL size the cases to set the shoulders back and then reload them.

We can only get a few reloads with ANY neck sizing die before the shoulder blows too far forward and needs to be set back a few thousanths.

T. O'Heir · November 6, 2008, 09:11 PM

"...shot in a different gun..." You most assuredly need an FL sizer die. No two chambers are exactly alike. FL resizing fixes that.
"...do not have a way to measure headspace..." Headspace doesn't get measured, just checked. Cartridges do not have headspace. It's a rifle manufacturing tolerance only.

butta9999 · November 6, 2008, 11:27 PM

You can buy a head space gauge. If your neck sizing eventually you will have to bump the shoulder back. And remember every time you trim your brass your chances of a head case seperation is more likely.

Using a collet die as you do will minimise the neck stretehing so you might only have to trim every second or third firing.

It will pay to trim the case after FL sizing though as the expander plug and die will cause the brass to grow..

Nnobby45 · November 6, 2008, 11:40 PM

Quote:

We can only get a few reloads with ANY neck sizing die before the shoulder blows too far forward and needs to be set back a few thousanths.

That's right. Brass is fairly "elastic" (springy) at first. When the round is fired, it expands tight against the chamber walls fire forming it'self to the chamber. Then contracts for easy extraction and a good fit (probably with some feel) when chambering.

After a while, the brass looses it's flex and doesn't want to contract. That could be noticeable when extracting the case, or chambering the same case over and over without FL resizing.

You should have a caliper to measure your loaded rd. length before and after chambering. You should also no how to look for lands marks on the bullet if you're jamming them into the lands.

Contrary to popular belief, case length would likely have to be way over case length specs to cause chambering problems. Not to say you shouldn't keep them trimmed. But don't be fanatical.

I suspect a sizing problem like some others have mentioned. It's VERY important that you FULLY understand the FL sizing process and learn to size your cases JUST ENOUGH for easy chambering in YOUR rifle.

I recommend FL sizing as routine, but, as mentioned, just enough for easy chambering. Other wise you have the problems associated with excessive headspace.

No better source of information is available than P.O. Ackleys two volumes on handloading as far as sizing the case is concerned. That's worth the price of the two books alone. And, get a copy of Sinclairs' excellent book on Precision Handloading.

Nnobby45 · November 6, 2008, 11:50 PM

Quote:

We can only get a few reloads with ANY neck sizing die before the shoulder blows too far forward and needs to be set back a few thousanths.

That's right. Brass is fairly "elastic" (springy) at first. When the round is fired, it expands tight against the chamber walls fire forming it'self to the chamber. Then contracts for easy extraction and a good fit (probably with some feel) when chambering.

After a while, the brass looses it's flex and doesn't want to contract. That could be noticeable when extracting the case, or chambering the same case over and over without FL resizing.

You should have a caliper to measure your cases before and after chambering. You should also no how to look for lands marks on the bullet if you're jamming them into the lands.

I suspect a sizing problem. It's VERY important that you FULLY understand the FL sizing process and learn to size your cases JUST ENOUGH for easy chambering in YOUR rifle.

I recommend FL sizing as routine, but, as mentioned, just enough for easy chambering. Other wise you have the problems associated with excessive headspace.

Lastly, an ol' Geezers admonition: Many a young fellow has tried to become a handloader before he was a student. Don't be one of them.

butta9999 · November 7, 2008, 12:49 AM

Right on Nobby. You just want to achieve the slightest resistance when closing the bolt. If the shoulders are bumped back too far the bolt will close sloppy and you will have excessive head space.

In saying that there is a fine line when adjusting the FL die beause the case will grow before being reduced, and a lot of reloaders strike the problem of the bullet still being too hard to chamber.

This used to happen to me before i became familiar with how to adjust the die properly.

graham82 · November 7, 2008, 12:55 PM

Many thanks to all that took time to try to impart some wisdom to someone that will still be learning for a long time.

After reading all replies, I am going to FL size both the .308 Win and my 30.06 brass and start from there. Seems the most logical point to start at as any.

Thanks for all the help.

TEDDY · November 7, 2008, 01:39 PM

you need to full length resize after a number of reloads.and also its good to anneal the neck and shoulder.I was loading 32/20 for 73 win and loading on a win tong.had to buy a hand sizer from lyman as the cases became to expanded.[in 1939].
hi graham I am 84.

Nnobby45 · November 7, 2008, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Right on Nobby. You just want to achieve the slightest resistance when closing the bolt. If the shoulders are bumped back too far the bolt will close sloppy and you will have excessive head space.

I've known some very knowledgeable handloaders who loaded their hunting ammo so the bolt would close like there was nothing there (like a factory rd.).

But they sized just enough to achieve that. One could size a lot more than that, and the bolt would close the same, so caution is needed.

For having fun and just shooting, I like the bolt to close with a little feel. But, do to the nature of brass, some still chamber harder than others, even though they're sized the same, so I end up loading so that some have a little feel, anyway.

November 5, 2008, 01:46 PM	#1
graham82 Member Join Date: January 31, 2007 Location: Southside VA Posts: 35	Problem with my reloads I have been reloading for my .308WIN and 30-06 (both bolt action) for about 10 months. Recently I have been having problems chambering some of my reloads. When I try to lock my bolt down, some of the bullets are making it hard to close the bolt or are much harder than I want to try. I am using a Lee Classic turret press with the deluxe rifle dies. I am neck sizing the brass after it has been fire formed. I thought I could correct my problem by resetting the neck sizing die, but that did not seem to help. I feel like the problem is something simple that I am probably missing. I would appreciate some ideas and help.

November 5, 2008, 02:02 PM	#2
ryalred Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2008 Location: SE Oklahoma Posts: 491	Have you tried full length sizing your brass to see if that makes a difference? I'm assuming you've trimmed cases to the correct length. You can check a case to see if the bolt closes without priming, charging, and seating a bullet. Take the sized brass and hand load it into the chamber and see if the bolt closes easily. If it does, it will most likely close easily after the completed reloading process. __________________ ryalred rifle & muzzleloader -- exhilarating bowhunting -- obsession reloading -- addicted

November 5, 2008, 05:45 PM	#5
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Sometimes this can be as simple as not seating a bullet deep enough. COAL may be the same as it was with a previous load that worked, but if the shape of the bullet isn't the same, it may be making contact somewhere. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

November 5, 2008, 09:36 PM	#6
Grahamwb Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 48	bolt closure I'm having the same problem with my 6.5x55 cases. I think they were shot in a different gun than I want to use them in and the headspace is different. I guess I will have to order a full size die.

November 5, 2008, 09:39 PM	#7
Grahamwb Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 48	82 Graham, are you 82 years old. I'm only 81.

November 5, 2008, 05:04 PM	#3
tkofoid Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2008 Location: N. D. Posts: 149	my guess is you are not getting enough headspace. The shoulder may have to be pushed back by way of a full length die.

November 5, 2008, 05:39 PM	#4
BurkGlocker Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2008 Location: Sheppard AFB, TX Posts: 568	I had a problem with my cases being different lengths, after sizing they would fit my chamber and the bolt closed easily, but when I seated the bullets it was bulging the shoulders ever so slightly, making the bolt hard to close. If youre case trimming after sizing, make sure they are all the same length before seating the bullet. This might help, but only my $.02.

November 5, 2008, 10:54 PM	#8
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	Did you measure the case length? They may need trimming. __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

November 6, 2008, 02:05 AM	#9
butta9999 Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2008 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Posts: 692	Graham82 Depending on how many times you have fired the case and reloaded it seems to be time to bump the shoulder back with a full length die. Be sure to check case length before and after sizing. If your neck die has an expander plug that will always stretch your case necks when its on the way out. That is why it pays to check length after neck sizing. I would invest in a Lee collet neck, it has a mandrel and there is no need for any lube. Also stretching of the neck is zero because the neck is squeezed onto the mandrel. In a normal neck die the neck is sized a few fhou smaller then sized correctly with the expander plug. Be sure to correctly set up your FL die, it will always stretch your case before bumping the shoulder back. If the die is not set down far enough your reloads will be hard to chamber as well. When setting your die keep screwing the die down a fraction of a turn until your case chambers with the slightest feel to the bolt. In most cases you will be slightly overcam with your press. Be sure to lube the case with every time you size it, the slightest turn down on your die cn have your case stuck if there is not enough lube. Another tip is not too use too much lube as it will build up on the shoulder area on the die and cause dents in the shoulder of your case. Its always great if we could always neck size all the time but that is not possible. I only FL size my cases 4-5 times depending on the load and then disregard my brass. Every time you FL size and trim your brass that is brass that has flowed up from the case head. Most times a partial or full head seperation can occur. This is because there is thinning of the case walls and something has to give eventually. Grahamwb Cases will not fire from two different rifles in same caliber if not FL sized. Be sure if only neck sizing to keep them seperate from a friends rifle if the same caliber. All chambers vary the slightest. __________________ Knowledge is Power!

November 6, 2008, 09:22 AM	#10
Smaug Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2004 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 3,210	Shoney's is the right answer If you're shooting it from the same rifle, fire-formed cases should fit. They'll be snug, but nothing ridiculous. That leaves case trimming. On necked rifle cartridges, the brass flows out when you shoot it. Lee makes a simple case trimming outfit that works perfectly for something like $5. Chuck the cutter in your drill and you're in business. __________________ -Jeremy "Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength." - Eric Hoffer

November 6, 2008, 04:03 PM	#11
graham82 Member Join Date: January 31, 2007 Location: Southside VA Posts: 35	Thanks for the replies. Here are a couple of things I have ruled out as likely causes for my problem. My COAL measures ok. I am not FL sizing(only neck sizing with my Lee collet die), so I don't think the shoulder should need to be pushed back. The cases are fire formed in the same gun I am reloading for. Some questions popped up while reading the replies. I always trim my cases with the Lee hand case trimmer before I neck size. Should I size then trim? butta9999 I do not have a way to measure headspace. Does setting up a FL die the way you described help set the proper headspace or should I buy something to measure headspace? Grahamwb I'm not 82 years old yet but some days it sure feels like it.

November 6, 2008, 04:14 PM	#12
graham82 Member Join Date: January 31, 2007 Location: Southside VA Posts: 35	Thanks for the replies. Here are a couple of things I have ruled out as likely causes for my problem. My COAL measures ok. I am not FL sizing(only neck sizing with my Lee collet die), so I don't think the shoulder should need to be pushed back. The cases are fire formed in the same gun I am reloading for. Some questions popped up while reading the replies. I always trim my cases with the Lee hand case trimmer before I neck size. Should I size then trim? butta9999 I do not have a way to measure headspace. Does setting up a FL die the way you described help set the proper headspace or should I buy something to measure headspace? Grahamwb I'm not 82 years old yet but some days it sure feels like it.

November 6, 2008, 04:48 PM	#13
rn22723 Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2001 Location: Burbs of Minneapolis Posts: 676	You need to size cases before trimming. You may need to FL size cases after a few neck sized firings.

November 6, 2008, 04:51 PM	#14
elkman06 Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2006 Location: Wyoming Posts: 885	I always size before trimming. Just kinda makes sense that this is what the finished product should be. Also, my Dad ran into the same length issue on his 300wm. Finally figured it out. His table/base was somewhat flexible and he was using very little lube. Now I know you're not supposed to be lubing the neck, however, when he would upstroke the press to remove the case, there was enough drag via the decapping pin holder that it would lenghthen the case as it was removed. We stiffened his table mount and used a bit more lube on the case and all issues went away. elkman06 __________________ "The right of the citizens to bear arms in the defense of themselves and of the state shall not be denied." Wyoming Constitution Article 1, Sec24 "Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6"

November 6, 2008, 04:57 PM	#15
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	"some of the bullets are making it hard to close the bolt or are much harder than I want to try." If you're trimming each time, it's NOT excess case length. If the BULLETS are making it hard to chamber your cartidges, seat them deeper. If the case itself is making it hard to chamber your carridges, pull the bullets, FL size the cases to set the shoulders back and then reload them. We can only get a few reloads with ANY neck sizing die before the shoulder blows too far forward and needs to be set back a few thousanths.

November 6, 2008, 09:11 PM	#16
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...shot in a different gun..." You most assuredly need an FL sizer die. No two chambers are exactly alike. FL resizing fixes that. "...do not have a way to measure headspace..." Headspace doesn't get measured, just checked. Cartridges do not have headspace. It's a rifle manufacturing tolerance only. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

November 6, 2008, 11:27 PM	#17
butta9999 Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2008 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Posts: 692	You can buy a head space gauge. If your neck sizing eventually you will have to bump the shoulder back. And remember every time you trim your brass your chances of a head case seperation is more likely. Using a collet die as you do will minimise the neck stretehing so you might only have to trim every second or third firing. It will pay to trim the case after FL sizing though as the expander plug and die will cause the brass to grow.. __________________ Knowledge is Power!

November 7, 2008, 12:49 AM	#20
butta9999 Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2008 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Posts: 692	Right on Nobby. You just want to achieve the slightest resistance when closing the bolt. If the shoulders are bumped back too far the bolt will close sloppy and you will have excessive head space. In saying that there is a fine line when adjusting the FL die beause the case will grow before being reduced, and a lot of reloaders strike the problem of the bullet still being too hard to chamber. This used to happen to me before i became familiar with how to adjust the die properly. __________________ Knowledge is Power!

November 7, 2008, 12:55 PM	#21
graham82 Member Join Date: January 31, 2007 Location: Southside VA Posts: 35	Many thanks to all that took time to try to impart some wisdom to someone that will still be learning for a long time. After reading all replies, I am going to FL size both the .308 Win and my 30.06 brass and start from there. Seems the most logical point to start at as any. Thanks for all the help.

November 7, 2008, 01:39 PM	#22
TEDDY Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2006 Location: MANNING SC Posts: 837	fu length resize you need to full length resize after a number of reloads.and also its good to anneal the neck and shoulder.I was loading 32/20 for 73 win and loading on a win tong.had to buy a hand sizer from lyman as the cases became to expanded.[in 1939]. hi graham I am 84.