case color ?

rebs · August 15, 2012, 01:47 PM

I loaded and shot these rounds 4.0 bullseye, CCI large pistol primes in federal cases with a 200 gr LSWC. Do they look normal to you guys ? The ones on each end didn't look as dark or burned like the two in the middle.

Shootest · August 15, 2012, 02:03 PM

You did not say what bullet. The load looks to light to me. It's not sealing at the case mouth.

rebs · August 15, 2012, 02:26 PM

these cases were loaded with a 200 gr lswc, 4.0 of bullseye, federal cases and CCI large pistol primer. Crimped .469 right at the mouth and .930 from the top of the driving band to the base of the case.
Can the burned look be from wrong OAL, too much crimp or what would cause it ?

Without using the measurement from the top of the drive band to the base of the case, what OAL do you guys use ?

mikld · August 15, 2012, 02:28 PM

Load is too light to expand case enough to seal gasses. Re-check your reloading manual and mebbe up the load a bit more.

jwrowland77 · August 15, 2012, 03:07 PM

Looks normal too me. Just looks like load is too light to seal off. Same thing happens with Titegroup. Just as dirty.

m&p45acp10+1 · August 16, 2012, 06:49 PM

I would reccomend going up to about 4.2 to 4.5 grains of powder. It should help to seal the cases a bit better. I run my home cast 200 grain LSWC with 4.2 to 4.4 grains. They are a bit sooty, though they shoot well so I clean my gun a little more often. Takes me about 10 minutes at the range to clean my gun before I go home.

rebs · August 16, 2012, 08:46 PM

I measured a few cases and found some that are 3thousands under the trim to length, would that cause this to happen ?

SL1 · August 17, 2012, 09:57 AM

No, a few thousandths under the trim length will have absolutely no effect.

I agree with the others, the pressures are not high enough to make the case fully seal the chamber when the cartridges are fired. Once the crud builds-up in the chamber, it is even harder for the cases to seal, so there may be more dirty marks on cases that were fired later in the series at the range. And, random variation in pressure among the rounds will also make some dirtier than others.

SO, in summary, your cases look like cases usually look with loads like you are shooting, and there is nothing to worry about with respect to safety or gun wear.

If you want to shoot cleaner loads, then upping the charge weight will probably help a little, and switching to a powder that burns cleaner at .45 ACP pressures will probably be more helpful.

SL1

jcwit · August 17, 2012, 10:20 AM

Agree with what the others have said. I assume "which I seldom do" you're reloading 45 ACP. If so check here

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...1&cartridge=35

drail · August 17, 2012, 10:39 AM

That's completely normal with light charges in a .45 ACP. It doesn't hurt anything, just makes a mess of the brass and the gun. They are nice to shoot though. I have thousands of .45 ACP cases that look just like that before tumbling. Tumbling will remove some/most of it but not all.

rebs · August 17, 2012, 12:13 PM

Bullseye in 4.0 grns is very accurate with a 200 gr lswc for target shooting. I don't really want to change my load so I'll have to put up with the dirt cases and gun.
Not all the cases get that dirty, thats why I was hoping someone had an answer other than increasing the load.
Would dropping to a 185 gr lswc help any ?

jwrowland77 · August 17, 2012, 12:28 PM

Decreasing your OAL should help, but by doing that you would need to do a new work up again because you will probably need to decrease charge. I don't know what the min/max are for a .45 for OAL. Where are you at now in relation to min/max OAL?

F. Guffey · August 17, 2012, 12:56 PM

I can not imagine a reloader indexing his cases to determine if the ‘dirty side’ of the case is always in the same place, I can not imagine a reloader using small and seemingly unimportant techniques to determine the cause of a problem like raising/elevating the pistol upward to force the powder back and against or near the primer flash hole in an effort to see if the powder is position sensitive.

Then there is the dirty outside of the case and low pressure, it is possible the blast got between the case and chamber THEN! sealed the chamber. this could be ‘all about time’ if the pressure was too low when fired and stayed low the case could have collapsed, it is a psi thing, the pressure trapped between the chamber and case would have escaped slower then the pressure inside the case, again I am the fan of having nothing between the chamber and case but air, clean air, not a lot but because I believe time is a factor, air between the case and chamber is good, seating the bullet off the lands is a time as a factor thing, again, I am the fan of bullet jump, I want my bullets to have the running start. Others want neck sizing dies, bushing dies etc..

F. Guffey

August 15, 2012, 01:47 PM	#1
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	case color ? I loaded and shot these rounds 4.0 bullseye, CCI large pistol primes in federal cases with a 200 gr LSWC. Do they look normal to you guys ? The ones on each end didn't look as dark or burned like the two in the middle. Last edited by rebs; August 15, 2012 at 02:28 PM.

August 15, 2012, 02:03 PM	#2
Shootest Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2011 Location: Just outside Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 722	You did not say what bullet. The load looks to light to me. It's not sealing at the case mouth. __________________ The private ownership of firearms is an American Heritage. Anyone who disputes that is Anti-American and unpatriotic. NRA Life Member

August 15, 2012, 02:28 PM	#4
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	Load is too light to expand case enough to seal gasses. Re-check your reloading manual and mebbe up the load a bit more. __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

August 15, 2012, 03:07 PM	#5
jwrowland77 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2012 Location: Conway, Arkansas Posts: 1,398	Looks normal too me. Just looks like load is too light to seal off. Same thing happens with Titegroup. Just as dirty. Last edited by jwrowland77; August 16, 2012 at 07:24 PM.

August 16, 2012, 06:49 PM	#6
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	I would reccomend going up to about 4.2 to 4.5 grains of powder. It should help to seal the cases a bit better. I run my home cast 200 grain LSWC with 4.2 to 4.4 grains. They are a bit sooty, though they shoot well so I clean my gun a little more often. Takes me about 10 minutes at the range to clean my gun before I go home. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

August 15, 2012, 02:26 PM	#3
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	these cases were loaded with a 200 gr lswc, 4.0 of bullseye, federal cases and CCI large pistol primer. Crimped .469 right at the mouth and .930 from the top of the driving band to the base of the case. Can the burned look be from wrong OAL, too much crimp or what would cause it ? Without using the measurement from the top of the drive band to the base of the case, what OAL do you guys use ?

August 16, 2012, 08:46 PM	#7
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	I measured a few cases and found some that are 3thousands under the trim to length, would that cause this to happen ?

August 17, 2012, 09:57 AM	#8
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	No, a few thousandths under the trim length will have absolutely no effect. I agree with the others, the pressures are not high enough to make the case fully seal the chamber when the cartridges are fired. Once the crud builds-up in the chamber, it is even harder for the cases to seal, so there may be more dirty marks on cases that were fired later in the series at the range. And, random variation in pressure among the rounds will also make some dirtier than others. SO, in summary, your cases look like cases usually look with loads like you are shooting, and there is nothing to worry about with respect to safety or gun wear. If you want to shoot cleaner loads, then upping the charge weight will probably help a little, and switching to a powder that burns cleaner at .45 ACP pressures will probably be more helpful. SL1

August 17, 2012, 10:20 AM	#9
jcwit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2007 Location: Upper Indiana Posts: 609	Agree with what the others have said. I assume "which I seldom do" you're reloading 45 ACP. If so check here http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...1&cartridge=35

August 17, 2012, 10:39 AM	#10
drail Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2008 Posts: 3,150	That's completely normal with light charges in a .45 ACP. It doesn't hurt anything, just makes a mess of the brass and the gun. They are nice to shoot though. I have thousands of .45 ACP cases that look just like that before tumbling. Tumbling will remove some/most of it but not all.

August 17, 2012, 12:13 PM	#11
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	Bullseye in 4.0 grns is very accurate with a 200 gr lswc for target shooting. I don't really want to change my load so I'll have to put up with the dirt cases and gun. Not all the cases get that dirty, thats why I was hoping someone had an answer other than increasing the load. Would dropping to a 185 gr lswc help any ?

August 17, 2012, 12:28 PM	#12
jwrowland77 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2012 Location: Conway, Arkansas Posts: 1,398	Decreasing your OAL should help, but by doing that you would need to do a new work up again because you will probably need to decrease charge. I don't know what the min/max are for a .45 for OAL. Where are you at now in relation to min/max OAL?

August 17, 2012, 12:56 PM	#13
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	I can not imagine a reloader indexing his cases to determine if the ‘dirty side’ of the case is always in the same place, I can not imagine a reloader using small and seemingly unimportant techniques to determine the cause of a problem like raising/elevating the pistol upward to force the powder back and against or near the primer flash hole in an effort to see if the powder is position sensitive. Then there is the dirty outside of the case and low pressure, it is possible the blast got between the case and chamber THEN! sealed the chamber. this could be ‘all about time’ if the pressure was too low when fired and stayed low the case could have collapsed, it is a psi thing, the pressure trapped between the chamber and case would have escaped slower then the pressure inside the case, again I am the fan of having nothing between the chamber and case but air, clean air, not a lot but because I believe time is a factor, air between the case and chamber is good, seating the bullet off the lands is a time as a factor thing, again, I am the fan of bullet jump, I want my bullets to have the running start. Others want neck sizing dies, bushing dies etc.. F. Guffey