1851 problem

King of smack · August 7, 2010, 02:27 PM

I'm having a problem getting my pietta 1851 to cycle. When I fire it the cylinder hangs up and I have to play with the cylinder and hammer to get it to cock again. What could be causing this?

denster · August 7, 2010, 03:58 PM

Does it only do this when you are shooting it or doesw it also do it when just cycling it without actually firing?

Hawg · August 7, 2010, 04:35 PM

Probably cap fragments falling into action. Get into the habit of raising muzzle and tilting it to the right slightly while cocking it.

Rifleman1776 · August 7, 2010, 04:35 PM

Assuming it is tuned properly, you probably are having expended cap fragments fall into the hammer/trigger mechanism. Very common occurance. Turning the pistol upside down after every shot can reduce the jamming frequency since you (hopefully) dump the fragments.

crgator · August 7, 2010, 06:09 PM

I recently shot my new 1851 and had similar problem on the first load. Like others have mentioned, check for caps falling in. That was my problem, and after the first cylinder, never had that problem again. I did like Hawg Haggen suggested, worked perfect all the rest.

Hardcase · August 7, 2010, 06:12 PM

While you're tipping and pointing, just consider it another bit of historical accuracy - the originals did that, too.

Doc Hoy · August 7, 2010, 07:19 PM

If you determine it is not the cap fragments, you might try taking the barrel off and cycling the action.

You have to hold the cylinder back against the recoil shield with light pressure. You can sometimes feel things you can't see.

Tnx,

Fingers McGee · August 7, 2010, 10:53 PM

Quote:

I'm having a problem getting my pietta 1851 to cycle. When I fire it the cylinder hangs up and I have to play with the cylinder and hammer to get it to cock again. What could be causing this?

Sounds like the hammer isnt going far enough forward to let the bolt leg pass over the cam on the hammer. This could be from a cap fragment that is lodged between the hammer and the frame or a buildup of fouling that prevents the hammer from going completely forward. A hammer face that is hitting the nipples can also keep the hammer from going all the way forward; this can be the fault of the hammer itself or can be caused by inserting the wedge too far.

Does it happen on every chamber or just the same one each time? Does it happen when the gun is clean, or do you have to fire a few cylinders full before it happens?

The fix could be as simple as cleaning out a cap fragment (and when they get peened flat to the frame they can be difficult to see sometimes because of the fouling), cleaning the fouling, or adjusting the wedge; and as touchy as filing on the bolt leg or filing the face of the hammer.

wogpotter · August 8, 2010, 08:28 AM

Just a follow on to the "tipping up to dump cap fragments" part of this.
The range where I shoot has an absolute prohibition on pointing muzzles skywards (it's a safety thing as we're in a built up area).

A good alternative is to turn the pistol sideways at 90 degrees with the sights facing to the right while keeping the muzzle level or pointing down slightly & then cock the hammer. This way the muzzle is always pointed in a safe direction (into the berm) & the cap fragments will fall away from the action instead of into it.

Gbro · August 8, 2010, 06:10 PM

+1 Wogpotter,

Others are correct in saying,
[While you're tipping and pointing, just consider it another bit of historical accuracy - the originals did that, too.]
We have to do better than that today.
I can always tell at the range an old school shooter that even after being instructed to maintain a low ready and the barrel is to never be raised over the berm they will still flick the wrist upward because of muscle memory (i believe).
And that is why I promote one round in any handgun for the first 1 or several until one is used to the recoil and the chance of a bump fire (gosh is that the right term here)is reduced.
And I do cover cap-n-ball revolvers in my concealed carry class

.
And when we have an open range day (more relaxed for time) I have a couple replicas on hand for anyone to try. Never had anyone not enjoy them yet.

Hawg · August 8, 2010, 06:37 PM

Quote:

The range where I shoot has an absolute prohibition on pointing muzzles skywards

Whut's a range?

pohill · August 8, 2010, 06:45 PM

I've always been against the wrist flick to free spent caps because of the reason(s) stated by Gbro and wogpotter - the gun will be off target, off berm, pointing up and away, etc. Many shooters see no problem with that technique - do what you want, just don't do it while you're next to me.

King of smack · August 8, 2010, 07:01 PM

Fingers I think you're right. It seems like the hammer isn't going all the way foward. And yes it happens on every cylinder. Any way to solve this?

denster · August 8, 2010, 07:48 PM

If the hammer isn't going all the way forward the leg of the bolt can't reset over the cam which of course freezes the gun. Probably cap fragments in the gun or other debris as has been suggested. Take it apart and clean it well and reassemble and try it. Let us know what you find.

denster · August 8, 2010, 07:55 PM

On further thought. If you don't find anything Fingers may be right about the barrel forcing the cylinder back and keeping the hammer from going full down. It is theoretically possible though I've never seen it happen as the bolt generally isn't fit that close but if Fingers said it he has seen it.

Fingers McGee · August 8, 2010, 10:41 PM

If you've got an impression of a nipple on the face of your hammer, the hammer will not go all the way forward. The forward motion of the hammer should only be stopped by the frame, not the nipple.

There is one other thing to check. Sometimes the staking pin for the arbor and the arbor bore in the frame have a burr or high place on it that can prevent the hammer from full throw. Look on the inside arc of the hammer for a small round shiney spot that would line up with the arbor. If so, filing the high spot on the frame and a little cold blue will fix it.

If the Arbor is OK, the hammer face is clean, and there are no cap fragments peened to the frame, a couple swipes with a round file on the bolt leg will solve the problem. Be sure to completely disassemble the frame and clean the hammer channel good. I've seen cap fragments get peened in there that looked just like a part of the frame.

FrontierGander · August 8, 2010, 10:43 PM

i had 4 of those 1851's and all 4 were pieces of craps. 2 did exactly what you are asking about.

If i could find them cheap, they'd look good on the wall and thats about it.

pohill · August 9, 2010, 09:45 AM

Quote:

i had 4 of those 1851's and all 4 were pieces of craps.

I like my Pietta 1851 .36. Sure, it needs work now and again but that's part of owning a cap and ball revolver.

Can you tell the Pietta from the original?

Noz · August 9, 2010, 10:59 AM

The simple and effective solution is after market nipples. TRESOs are the best. I hear there are some stainless on the market that will also work.
I bought a new 1860 last week. I tried to run a set of caps thru it and either lost or did not fire 4 of them. Took the factory nipples out and replaced them with TRESOs and all six fired as they were supposed to.

I see people doing the elevate and twist motion while shooting and feel sorry that they feel the need to do that.

#10 Remingtons and TRESO nipples solve 90% of the cap problems in the cap and ball revolvers.

August 7, 2010, 06:12 PM	#6
Hardcase Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Sunny Southern Idaho Posts: 1,909	While you're tipping and pointing, just consider it another bit of historical accuracy - the originals did that, too. __________________ Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae

August 7, 2010, 07:19 PM	#7
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	K o S If you determine it is not the cap fragments, you might try taking the barrel off and cycling the action. You have to hold the cylinder back against the recoil shield with light pressure. You can sometimes feel things you can't see. Tnx, __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

August 8, 2010, 10:41 PM	#16
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	If you've got an impression of a nipple on the face of your hammer, the hammer will not go all the way forward. The forward motion of the hammer should only be stopped by the frame, not the nipple. There is one other thing to check. Sometimes the staking pin for the arbor and the arbor bore in the frame have a burr or high place on it that can prevent the hammer from full throw. Look on the inside arc of the hammer for a small round shiney spot that would line up with the arbor. If so, filing the high spot on the frame and a little cold blue will fix it. If the Arbor is OK, the hammer face is clean, and there are no cap fragments peened to the frame, a couple swipes with a round file on the bolt leg will solve the problem. Be sure to completely disassemble the frame and clean the hammer channel good. I've seen cap fragments get peened in there that looked just like a part of the frame. __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce Last edited by Fingers McGee; August 9, 2010 at 12:53 PM. Reason: cuz this computer caint spell wurth a darn

August 8, 2010, 10:43 PM	#17
FrontierGander Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Boncarbo,Colorado Posts: 651	i had 4 of those 1851's and all 4 were pieces of craps. 2 did exactly what you are asking about. If i could find them cheap, they'd look good on the wall and thats about it. __________________ https://buckskinsbp.blogspot.com/

August 7, 2010, 02:27 PM	#1
King of smack Member Join Date: June 23, 2010 Posts: 14	1851 problem I'm having a problem getting my pietta 1851 to cycle. When I fire it the cylinder hangs up and I have to play with the cylinder and hammer to get it to cock again. What could be causing this?

August 7, 2010, 03:58 PM	#2
denster Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 581	Does it only do this when you are shooting it or doesw it also do it when just cycling it without actually firing?

August 7, 2010, 04:35 PM	#3
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Probably cap fragments falling into action. Get into the habit of raising muzzle and tilting it to the right slightly while cocking it.

August 7, 2010, 04:35 PM	#4
Rifleman1776 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,309	Assuming it is tuned properly, you probably are having expended cap fragments fall into the hammer/trigger mechanism. Very common occurance. Turning the pistol upside down after every shot can reduce the jamming frequency since you (hopefully) dump the fragments.

August 7, 2010, 06:09 PM	#5
crgator Junior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Posts: 14	I recently shot my new 1851 and had similar problem on the first load. Like others have mentioned, check for caps falling in. That was my problem, and after the first cylinder, never had that problem again. I did like Hawg Haggen suggested, worked perfect all the rest.

August 8, 2010, 08:28 AM	#9
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	Just a follow on to the "tipping up to dump cap fragments" part of this. The range where I shoot has an absolute prohibition on pointing muzzles skywards (it's a safety thing as we're in a built up area). A good alternative is to turn the pistol sideways at 90 degrees with the sights facing to the right while keeping the muzzle level or pointing down slightly & then cock the hammer. This way the muzzle is always pointed in a safe direction (into the berm) & the cap fragments will fall away from the action instead of into it.

August 8, 2010, 06:10 PM	#10
Gbro Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,084	+1 Wogpotter, Others are correct in saying, [While you're tipping and pointing, just consider it another bit of historical accuracy - the originals did that, too.] We have to do better than that today. I can always tell at the range an old school shooter that even after being instructed to maintain a low ready and the barrel is to never be raised over the berm they will still flick the wrist upward because of muscle memory (i believe). And that is why I promote one round in any handgun for the first 1 or several until one is used to the recoil and the chance of a bump fire (gosh is that the right term here)is reduced. And I do cover cap-n-ball revolvers in my concealed carry class . And when we have an open range day (more relaxed for time) I have a couple replicas on hand for anyone to try. Never had anyone not enjoy them yet. __________________ Gbro CGVS For the message of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, But to us who are being saved, It Is The Power Of God. 1Corinthians 1-18

August 8, 2010, 06:45 PM	#12
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	I've always been against the wrist flick to free spent caps because of the reason(s) stated by Gbro and wogpotter - the gun will be off target, off berm, pointing up and away, etc. Many shooters see no problem with that technique - do what you want, just don't do it while you're next to me.

August 8, 2010, 07:01 PM	#13
King of smack Member Join Date: June 23, 2010 Posts: 14	Fingers I think you're right. It seems like the hammer isn't going all the way foward. And yes it happens on every cylinder. Any way to solve this?

August 8, 2010, 07:48 PM	#14
denster Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 581	If the hammer isn't going all the way forward the leg of the bolt can't reset over the cam which of course freezes the gun. Probably cap fragments in the gun or other debris as has been suggested. Take it apart and clean it well and reassemble and try it. Let us know what you find.

August 8, 2010, 07:55 PM	#15
denster Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 581	On further thought. If you don't find anything Fingers may be right about the barrel forcing the cylinder back and keeping the hammer from going full down. It is theoretically possible though I've never seen it happen as the bolt generally isn't fit that close but if Fingers said it he has seen it.

August 9, 2010, 10:59 AM	#19
Noz Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 643	The simple and effective solution is after market nipples. TRESOs are the best. I hear there are some stainless on the market that will also work. I bought a new 1860 last week. I tried to run a set of caps thru it and either lost or did not fire 4 of them. Took the factory nipples out and replaced them with TRESOs and all six fired as they were supposed to. I see people doing the elevate and twist motion while shooting and feel sorry that they feel the need to do that. #10 Remingtons and TRESO nipples solve 90% of the cap problems in the cap and ball revolvers.