Which Shotgun?

Nightcrawler · May 21, 2001, 07:10 PM

I've been thinking of buying a nice, good, "keeper" shotgun this winter, after I've saved up some cash. I'm having trouble deciding, because...well, I have this weird thing where I want my small gun collection to have symmetry. If my primary rifle is a Marlin .30-30 lever, I want my primary shotgun to be a manual-action (pump) with wood furniture. (I know it's weird, just work with me here).

I prefer one with iron sights, and an 18-20" or so barrel. The only pumps I can find around here with iron sights are Remington 870 slug guns with rifled barrels. I don't have a problem with a rifled barrel, except apparently you can't use them with buckshot. Not being able to use shotshells takes half the utility out of a good shotgun, I think.

The one factory shotgun that seems to match my desire is a Winchester Camp Defender, but if I want that, I'll have to have them order it (I've never seen one) and it'll cost more as a result.

So, what should I get? I hear the 870 is a great shotgun, but tell me a couple things. What's this I hear about not being able to add magazine tube extensions, and do they make an 18-20" smoothbore barrel with iron sights?

Nightcrawler · May 21, 2001, 07:38 PM

Apparently the 870s have a 4-round tube with 2.75" shells. Is this correct? If so, that rules out the 870. I want at least 5+1 capacity.

Looks like whenever I get the money saved, I'll have to order that Winchester Camp Defender.

Dfariswheel · May 21, 2001, 08:32 PM

A Chinese copy of the Remington 870 is being sold at (I think) under $200.00. It has a 5+1 capacity, and is available with rifle sights. I understand that most parts interchange with the Remington.

Mossberg, Remington, and most other shotgun makers offer smooth-bore shotguns with rifle sights. Check a good gun shop for catalogs showing the various models each maker offers.

The new Remington Express uses a different method of assembling the magazine spring and follower. A magazine extender can be fitted, but requires a small modification to the mag tube. Most new mag extenders come with instructions on how to do this.

Do a little shopping before making a choice.

Nightcrawler · May 21, 2001, 08:45 PM

I want a keeper. I like what I hear about how well 870s are built, but...

What's its magazine capacity with 2.75" shells? 4 or 5? On Remington's websight they list it as 4, but they don't specify if its with 2.75" or 3" shells.

Dfariswheel · May 21, 2001, 10:10 PM

Remington's hold four 2.75" shells in the mag tube, plus one in the chamber.

If you can stand to live with a 4 shot mag, or you can install a mag extension, get a Remington. You'll have a quality piece. Other people will tell you to buy Mossberg or many other brands, but a Remington 870 is about top-of-the-line. Parts and accessories are easy to find, they don't break easily, and it couldn't hurt to be using the same gun your local police use. I say this because your local police almost certainly use the 870, and it looks good in court if you have to use it on an intruder, to have the same as the police.

Remington makes the 870P police model. Barrels are 18" cylinder bore, and 20" cylinder. The 20" can be had with rifle sights or ghost ring sights. Options include synthetic or wood stock, and blue or parkerized finish.

Most dealers can get you your choice, even though Remington doesn't like to sell police models to civilians.

To save money, or to have a fancy HD gun, buy a used or new commercial 870 Wingmaster, and either cut the barrel down, or buy a new short barrel.

AR-10 · May 21, 2001, 10:35 PM

A stock 870 Express holds four in the magazine. You can put a twenty inch barrel on it with an eight round magazine extension. I own two 870's and a Mossberg. All I can say about the Mossberg is "PUHLEEZE!?!". If you want a keeper, get the 870.

My HD shotgun is an 870 Express Magnum, parkerized with synthetic furniture, barrel chopped to twenty inches, Choate eight round magazine tube extension, Hi-Viz front sight, and butt cuff. It's got everything I want on it for less than $300.00 total. The front sight and the butt cuff are both hot-glued into position, which sounds tacky, but it looks good and works great.

With fourteen rounds on board it is heavy, but it balances well and the weight is reassuring.

Nightcrawler · May 21, 2001, 10:35 PM

First off, my shotgun purchase isn't going to be for awhile. My next gun will be my Marlin .30-30.

But, I'm always hesitant to spend money on a gun that I have to perform surgery on to get it how I like it. I want at least 5+1 capacity. That's not a lot to ask, I don't think. I don't know about spending a couple hundred dollars on a shotgun, then spending more on a new barrel and a magazine tube, and having my friend witht he dremmel tool modify the gun so it'll accept the magazine tube.

There's always the Mossberg 500 with wooden furniture, and they make a 20" smoothbore barrel with rifle sights.

And there's the Winchester Camp Defender, which is ready to go (how I want it) right out of the box.

44rugerfan · May 22, 2001, 03:14 AM

My brother-in-law has a used 870 express magnum with wood and a 5+1 capacity. Said he paid about $170 for it. Shop around.

NINE · May 22, 2001, 04:22 AM

I bought one of these as soon as I saw one and could get the money. That was about 4 years ago, and not a single problem with it. I've shot slug, buck and lil' bird shot outta this thing, all with great results. It holds 7 three inchers!(6 in the tube, 1 in the chamber) The only thing is that they are kinda pricey when compared to some of the other short shotguns out there, but it's VERY durable and cool looking. It is with out a doubt worth every penny.

Dave McC · May 22, 2001, 05:14 AM

First, NC, an UNMODIFIED short bbled 870 is a short range defensive weapon of great power,reliability and effect.

And, I doubt very much that any scenario that I cannot resolve with 4 rounds of shotgun ammo will be resolved nicely with 6.

While the 870s kept ready and used here for HD have lots of bellsnwhistles, my little Frankenstein shotgun w/o much major alteration would serve also.

Back when I shot 3 gun matches with the state, sometimes I used one of my HD pieces, sometimes a stock weapon right out of the armory. Shot over 90% with both.

Our old agency qualifier required an unmodified shotgun. It went like this.

On a 15 yard tombstone target, start off with 4 in the magazine. Load one, on the command to fire,mount, take off the safety, fire 4, load one round by throwing it into the ejection port, fire that. Shoot for both score and time.

My typical time was about 6 seconds or less.

Repeat at 25 yards.

My advice, get a used short bbled 870. Lots of them have iron sights and smoothbore bbls, w/ or w/o choke tubes. Make sure the stock fits, and it has a decent trigger.

Buy all the practice ammo you can afford. Shoot same. Repeat until your shotgun feels like a body part and not just a tool.

At this point, you'll be truly dangerous, to the right people, rather than just looking dangerous with a Loudenboomer SP Mag.

Later, after your first novel makes it onto Oprah's A list and you've got more cash on hand, THEN get the extension mag,GR sights, and depleted Uranium 00 that's been rubbed with garlic.

Meanwhile, the stock, baseline weapon described above will serve you very well, and maybe your grandchildren also.

Nightcrawler · May 22, 2001, 11:32 AM

There's not one defensive-type 870 around here in any of the stores, new or used. I've looked. All the 870s either have rifled slug barrels or long trap barrels.

In fact, no matter what kind of shotgun I want, I'm going to have to special order it. There just isn't much of a selection in the stores right now, unless you want a 26, 28, or 30 inch trap or turkey barrel.

Dave McC · May 22, 2001, 12:10 PM

The 870 Express Turkey variant has a 21" bbl, and the differences in handling between that and a barely legal 18" bbled 870 aren't worth talking about.

It comes with the Extra Full choke, add IC and Modified tubes and you're set.

Most folks can get good hits with slugs and bead up to 50 yards with a bit of practice.

May 21, 2001, 07:38 PM	#2
Nightcrawler Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2000 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,945	Hmm Apparently the 870s have a 4-round tube with 2.75" shells. Is this correct? If so, that rules out the 870. I want at least 5+1 capacity. Looks like whenever I get the money saved, I'll have to order that Winchester Camp Defender.

May 21, 2001, 08:45 PM	#4
Nightcrawler Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2000 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,945	No Norinco Clone I want a keeper. I like what I hear about how well 870s are built, but... What's its magazine capacity with 2.75" shells? 4 or 5? On Remington's websight they list it as 4, but they don't specify if its with 2.75" or 3" shells.

May 21, 2001, 10:35 PM	#7
Nightcrawler Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2000 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,945	I dunno First off, my shotgun purchase isn't going to be for awhile. My next gun will be my Marlin .30-30. But, I'm always hesitant to spend money on a gun that I have to perform surgery on to get it how I like it. I want at least 5+1 capacity. That's not a lot to ask, I don't think. I don't know about spending a couple hundred dollars on a shotgun, then spending more on a new barrel and a magazine tube, and having my friend witht he dremmel tool modify the gun so it'll accept the magazine tube. There's always the Mossberg 500 with wooden furniture, and they make a 20" smoothbore barrel with rifle sights. And there's the Winchester Camp Defender, which is ready to go (how I want it) right out of the box.

May 22, 2001, 04:22 AM	#9
NINE Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 431	870 Marine Magnum I bought one of these as soon as I saw one and could get the money. That was about 4 years ago, and not a single problem with it. I've shot slug, buck and lil' bird shot outta this thing, all with great results. It holds 7 three inchers!(6 in the tube, 1 in the chamber) The only thing is that they are kinda pricey when compared to some of the other short shotguns out there, but it's VERY durable and cool looking. It is with out a doubt worth every penny.

May 22, 2001, 11:32 AM	#11
Nightcrawler Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2000 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,945	That's actually the thing There's not one defensive-type 870 around here in any of the stores, new or used. I've looked. All the 870s either have rifled slug barrels or long trap barrels. In fact, no matter what kind of shotgun I want, I'm going to have to special order it. There just isn't much of a selection in the stores right now, unless you want a 26, 28, or 30 inch trap or turkey barrel.

May 21, 2001, 07:10 PM	#1
Nightcrawler Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2000 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,945	I've been thinking of buying a nice, good, "keeper" shotgun this winter, after I've saved up some cash. I'm having trouble deciding, because...well, I have this weird thing where I want my small gun collection to have symmetry. If my primary rifle is a Marlin .30-30 lever, I want my primary shotgun to be a manual-action (pump) with wood furniture. (I know it's weird, just work with me here). I prefer one with iron sights, and an 18-20" or so barrel. The only pumps I can find around here with iron sights are Remington 870 slug guns with rifled barrels. I don't have a problem with a rifled barrel, except apparently you can't use them with buckshot. Not being able to use shotshells takes half the utility out of a good shotgun, I think. The one factory shotgun that seems to match my desire is a Winchester Camp Defender, but if I want that, I'll have to have them order it (I've never seen one) and it'll cost more as a result. So, what should I get? I hear the 870 is a great shotgun, but tell me a couple things. What's this I hear about not being able to add magazine tube extensions, and do they make an 18-20" smoothbore barrel with iron sights?

May 21, 2001, 08:32 PM	#3
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	A Chinese copy of the Remington 870 is being sold at (I think) under $200.00. It has a 5+1 capacity, and is available with rifle sights. I understand that most parts interchange with the Remington. Mossberg, Remington, and most other shotgun makers offer smooth-bore shotguns with rifle sights. Check a good gun shop for catalogs showing the various models each maker offers. The new Remington Express uses a different method of assembling the magazine spring and follower. A magazine extender can be fitted, but requires a small modification to the mag tube. Most new mag extenders come with instructions on how to do this. Do a little shopping before making a choice.

May 21, 2001, 10:10 PM	#5
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	Remington's hold four 2.75" shells in the mag tube, plus one in the chamber. If you can stand to live with a 4 shot mag, or you can install a mag extension, get a Remington. You'll have a quality piece. Other people will tell you to buy Mossberg or many other brands, but a Remington 870 is about top-of-the-line. Parts and accessories are easy to find, they don't break easily, and it couldn't hurt to be using the same gun your local police use. I say this because your local police almost certainly use the 870, and it looks good in court if you have to use it on an intruder, to have the same as the police. Remington makes the 870P police model. Barrels are 18" cylinder bore, and 20" cylinder. The 20" can be had with rifle sights or ghost ring sights. Options include synthetic or wood stock, and blue or parkerized finish. Most dealers can get you your choice, even though Remington doesn't like to sell police models to civilians. To save money, or to have a fancy HD gun, buy a used or new commercial 870 Wingmaster, and either cut the barrel down, or buy a new short barrel.

May 21, 2001, 10:35 PM	#6
AR-10 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2001 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,182	A stock 870 Express holds four in the magazine. You can put a twenty inch barrel on it with an eight round magazine extension. I own two 870's and a Mossberg. All I can say about the Mossberg is "PUHLEEZE!?!". If you want a keeper, get the 870. My HD shotgun is an 870 Express Magnum, parkerized with synthetic furniture, barrel chopped to twenty inches, Choate eight round magazine tube extension, Hi-Viz front sight, and butt cuff. It's got everything I want on it for less than $300.00 total. The front sight and the butt cuff are both hot-glued into position, which sounds tacky, but it looks good and works great. With fourteen rounds on board it is heavy, but it balances well and the weight is reassuring.

May 22, 2001, 03:14 AM	#8
44rugerfan Senior Member Join Date: March 10, 2001 Posts: 277	My brother-in-law has a used 870 express magnum with wood and a 5+1 capacity. Said he paid about $170 for it. Shop around.

May 22, 2001, 05:14 AM	#10
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	First, NC, an UNMODIFIED short bbled 870 is a short range defensive weapon of great power,reliability and effect. And, I doubt very much that any scenario that I cannot resolve with 4 rounds of shotgun ammo will be resolved nicely with 6. While the 870s kept ready and used here for HD have lots of bellsnwhistles, my little Frankenstein shotgun w/o much major alteration would serve also. Back when I shot 3 gun matches with the state, sometimes I used one of my HD pieces, sometimes a stock weapon right out of the armory. Shot over 90% with both. Our old agency qualifier required an unmodified shotgun. It went like this. On a 15 yard tombstone target, start off with 4 in the magazine. Load one, on the command to fire,mount, take off the safety, fire 4, load one round by throwing it into the ejection port, fire that. Shoot for both score and time. My typical time was about 6 seconds or less. Repeat at 25 yards. My advice, get a used short bbled 870. Lots of them have iron sights and smoothbore bbls, w/ or w/o choke tubes. Make sure the stock fits, and it has a decent trigger. Buy all the practice ammo you can afford. Shoot same. Repeat until your shotgun feels like a body part and not just a tool. At this point, you'll be truly dangerous, to the right people, rather than just looking dangerous with a Loudenboomer SP Mag. Later, after your first novel makes it onto Oprah's A list and you've got more cash on hand, THEN get the extension mag,GR sights, and depleted Uranium 00 that's been rubbed with garlic. Meanwhile, the stock, baseline weapon described above will serve you very well, and maybe your grandchildren also.

May 22, 2001, 12:10 PM	#12
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	The 870 Express Turkey variant has a 21" bbl, and the differences in handling between that and a barely legal 18" bbled 870 aren't worth talking about. It comes with the Extra Full choke, add IC and Modified tubes and you're set. Most folks can get good hits with slugs and bead up to 50 yards with a bit of practice.