Some days it doesn't pay to rob a pizza joint

kraigwy · October 3, 2011, 09:36 PM

Off duty officer shoots four, kills one, wounds three others.

http://www.policeone.com/off-duty/ar...ts-4-suspects/

LockedBreech · October 3, 2011, 11:49 PM

Wow, that guy is a hero, and an extremely impressive fighter. Thanks for the link.

kraigwy · October 4, 2011, 12:32 AM

I guess I should have mentioned, or asked.

Why did the Off Duty cop have to grab someone else's gun, where was his?

LockedBreech · October 4, 2011, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraigwy

I guess I should have mentioned, or asked.

Why did the Off Duty cop have to grab someone else's gun, where was his?

I had the same thought. My brother is a LEO up in Gillette and always carries.

youngunz4life · October 4, 2011, 01:31 AM

there is no way to tell just by the one story, but I figure the kid was an idiot(we actually already knoe that by default), and the gun was in his easy grasp vicinity.

16yr old dufus, small+not that strong, being an idiot, has gun real close to you: I would probably grab it too.

It would seem the BG's gun was in good working order. I have heard many times the other way around and even robberies being committed when the BG knows it probably won't shoot more than one. Of course we would always assume it would shoot a full mag no matter what we felt...we can't cut that corner.

Patriot86 · October 4, 2011, 07:56 AM

The officer is a hero a 4 on 2 brawl and the officer got control of BOTH weapons? Amazing!

Four less scumbags on the streets of Rockford preying on the innocent.

Stressfire · October 4, 2011, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Why did the Off Duty cop have to grab someone else's gun, where was his?

It's Illinois, can cops carry off duty? Even if so, not all LEOs carry off duty, seems kind of a moot point though, looks like he did just fine without a gun of his own.

TailGator · October 4, 2011, 09:06 AM

Maybe he was armed but felt that the suspect was so close that he had a better chance using HTH techniques? A pistol in an ankle holster or a belly band inside a shirt, to take a couple of examples, may not necessarily be accessible with sufficient speed to answer a threat from someone who has the drop on you.

Maybe a followup article will give us more details.

MLeake · October 4, 2011, 09:57 AM

Not sure about Illinois law, or this officer's departmental policy. I have friends who are cops in the southeast, though, who would not be allowed to carry off-duty into a restaurant if they intended to have a beer or two while inside.

So that could be another possibility.

Sgt Pepper · October 4, 2011, 10:03 AM

Moving to disarm forces the shooter to worry about maintaining control of the gun over shooting at a target. If you are close enough, you can likely move quickly enough to engage the shooter without getting shot.

On the other hand, moving for your firearm, and doing so in front of a shooter who is covering you with his gun, only forces the shooter to make the decision to shoot. Heck, I would be worried that any movements might result in getting shot. That's why you take your chance with a quick move at the shooter and engage in hand to hand combat if you are close enough to do so.

1911Jeeper · October 4, 2011, 07:31 PM

There is a video related to the story - http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=464641

The officer was not carrying a firearm at the time of the incident. (Maybe he will learn from this and change his mind about being unarmed.)

schutzen · October 6, 2011, 07:22 AM

Surely this story must be wrong. It is illegal to carry a handgun in Illinois unless you are law enforcement. Even then, there should be no way the teenagers carried guns; they are not eligible for FOID cards and the shop owner’s son surely should not have one on his person. This whole story must be BS.

Or maybe all of Illinois is BS. This looks like it is more proof gun control does not work.

Dwight55 · October 6, 2011, 09:28 PM

I don't have a link to it, . . . but last night (10/5/11) in Columbus, Ohio, . . . cops rolled up into an armed robbery in progress, . . . another Pizza joint, . . . gun battle ensued, . . . cops 1 / bg's 0.

May God bless,
Dwight

old bear · October 6, 2011, 10:48 PM

Let me guess the 16 year old who died at the scene, "was a good boy who was starting to turn his life around and loved his Mother."

Good Guy's 1 up.

TJH3781 · October 6, 2011, 10:57 PM

The place is carry-out & delivery only, so no alcohol is served on the premisis.

IIRC, the deputy also used a weapon the owner was carrying.

Patriot86 · October 7, 2011, 06:07 PM

I am not 100% clear on this but is carrying a concealed weapon legal in Illinois @ your place of business? I cannot recall any employee in any local gun store I have been to showing me, or talking about CC'ing on the job. MOST employees of said store ARE open carrying though.

WIN71 · October 7, 2011, 10:02 PM

This was quite a article. The off duty officer reacted in one of the most positive, aggressive, solve the problem life and death scenarios I’ve ever heard about.

Some of the comments about why didn’t he have his own weapon are important.

Some departments in my state, good old California, require their officers to carry a weapon while off duty. One department of over 5,000 uniformed members, back when the duty weapon was a 4 in. .38 revolver, were required to carry that weapon. Another department of equal or bigger size had a policy that only permitted an off duty officer to carry a concealed weapon. That weapon could literally be anything that fired a projectile. The off duty officer was not required to carry a weapon.

Now you may say, “why wouldn’t he carry if he legally could”?

I don’t have an answer. I was not required to carry off duty. Sometimes I did, sometimes I didn’t. However, there was always a concealable weapon someplace nearby. I did start carrying regularly after I walked into an armed robbery unarmed while off duty. The Colt Cobra in the glove box of my 1967 Firebird in the supermarket parking lot wasn’t of much use. I thought of that when I was laying on the floor of isle 3 with the rest of the customers.

youngunz4life · October 8, 2011, 01:02 AM

Quote:

I don’t have an answer. I was not required to carry off duty. Sometimes I did, sometimes I didn’t. However, there was always a concealable weapon someplace nearby. I did start carrying regularly after I walked into an armed robbery unarmed while off duty. The Colt Cobra in the glove box of my 1967 Firebird in the supermarket parking lot wasn’t of much use. I thought of that when I was laying on the floor of isle 3 with the rest of the customers.

trying to picture that moment and I can understand your reasoning looking back!

TylerD45ACP · October 8, 2011, 02:29 PM

AWESOME...Great job on the off duty officers part. He sounds like a beast, 4 v 1. Well techinally 2 but the officer did all the shooting. Is this guy related to Chuck Norris? It Sounds like something out of film almost doesnt it? Anyone have any idea what firearms were used in the shooting, I am just curious what the officer used.

October 3, 2011, 09:36 PM	#1
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	Some days it doesn't pay to rob a pizza joint Off duty officer shoots four, kills one, wounds three others. http://www.policeone.com/off-duty/ar...ts-4-suspects/ __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

October 3, 2011, 11:49 PM	#2
LockedBreech Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2009 Location: Rocky Mountain West Posts: 3,395	Wow, that guy is a hero, and an extremely impressive fighter. Thanks for the link. __________________ 16 Pistols, 5 Rifles, 1 Shotgun, no time to shoot them

October 4, 2011, 12:32 AM	#3
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	I guess I should have mentioned, or asked. Why did the Off Duty cop have to grab someone else's gun, where was his? __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

October 4, 2011, 01:31 AM	#5
youngunz4life Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2010 Location: United States of America Posts: 1,877	there is no way to tell just by the one story, but I figure the kid was an idiot(we actually already knoe that by default), and the gun was in his easy grasp vicinity. 16yr old dufus, small+not that strong, being an idiot, has gun real close to you: I would probably grab it too. It would seem the BG's gun was in good working order. I have heard many times the other way around and even robberies being committed when the BG knows it probably won't shoot more than one. Of course we would always assume it would shoot a full mag no matter what we felt...we can't cut that corner. __________________ "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" -Admiral Farragut @ Battle of Mobile Bay 05AUG1864

October 4, 2011, 09:06 AM	#8
TailGator Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,787	Why did he not use his own weapon? Maybe he was armed but felt that the suspect was so close that he had a better chance using HTH techniques? A pistol in an ankle holster or a belly band inside a shirt, to take a couple of examples, may not necessarily be accessible with sufficient speed to answer a threat from someone who has the drop on you. Maybe a followup article will give us more details.

October 4, 2011, 07:56 AM	#6
Patriot86 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2010 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 1,293	The officer is a hero a 4 on 2 brawl and the officer got control of BOTH weapons? Amazing! Four less scumbags on the streets of Rockford preying on the innocent.

October 4, 2011, 09:57 AM	#9
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Not sure about Illinois law, or this officer's departmental policy. I have friends who are cops in the southeast, though, who would not be allowed to carry off-duty into a restaurant if they intended to have a beer or two while inside. So that could be another possibility.

October 4, 2011, 10:03 AM	#10
Sgt Pepper Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2001 Location: Texas Posts: 811	Moving to disarm forces the shooter to worry about maintaining control of the gun over shooting at a target. If you are close enough, you can likely move quickly enough to engage the shooter without getting shot. On the other hand, moving for your firearm, and doing so in front of a shooter who is covering you with his gun, only forces the shooter to make the decision to shoot. Heck, I would be worried that any movements might result in getting shot. That's why you take your chance with a quick move at the shooter and engage in hand to hand combat if you are close enough to do so.

October 4, 2011, 07:31 PM	#11
1911Jeeper Member Join Date: July 20, 2011 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 28	There is a video related to the story - http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=464641 The officer was not carrying a firearm at the time of the incident. (Maybe he will learn from this and change his mind about being unarmed.) __________________ . Exodus 22:2 “If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed.”

October 6, 2011, 07:22 AM	#12
schutzen Member Join Date: January 5, 2006 Location: Far Western Kentucky Posts: 78	Pizza Robbery Surely this story must be wrong. It is illegal to carry a handgun in Illinois unless you are law enforcement. Even then, there should be no way the teenagers carried guns; they are not eligible for FOID cards and the shop owner’s son surely should not have one on his person. This whole story must be BS. Or maybe all of Illinois is BS. This looks like it is more proof gun control does not work.

October 6, 2011, 09:28 PM	#13
Dwight55 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 2,568	I don't have a link to it, . . . but last night (10/5/11) in Columbus, Ohio, . . . cops rolled up into an armed robbery in progress, . . . another Pizza joint, . . . gun battle ensued, . . . cops 1 / bg's 0. May God bless, Dwight __________________ www.dwightsgunleather.com If you can breathe, . . . thank God! If you can read, . . . thank a teacher! If you are reading this in English, . . . thank a Veteran!

October 6, 2011, 10:48 PM	#14
old bear Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2009 Location: Not close enough to the beach Posts: 1,477	Let me guess the 16 year old who died at the scene, "was a good boy who was starting to turn his life around and loved his Mother." Good Guy's 1 up.

October 6, 2011, 10:57 PM	#15
TJH3781 Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2009 Location: Rockford IL Posts: 149	The place is carry-out & delivery only, so no alcohol is served on the premisis. IIRC, the deputy also used a weapon the owner was carrying.

October 7, 2011, 06:07 PM	#16
Patriot86 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2010 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 1,293	I am not 100% clear on this but is carrying a concealed weapon legal in Illinois @ your place of business? I cannot recall any employee in any local gun store I have been to showing me, or talking about CC'ing on the job. MOST employees of said store ARE open carrying though.

October 7, 2011, 10:02 PM	#17
WIN71 Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2005 Posts: 729	sh^& happens This was quite a article. The off duty officer reacted in one of the most positive, aggressive, solve the problem life and death scenarios I’ve ever heard about. Some of the comments about why didn’t he have his own weapon are important. Some departments in my state, good old California, require their officers to carry a weapon while off duty. One department of over 5,000 uniformed members, back when the duty weapon was a 4 in. .38 revolver, were required to carry that weapon. Another department of equal or bigger size had a policy that only permitted an off duty officer to carry a concealed weapon. That weapon could literally be anything that fired a projectile. The off duty officer was not required to carry a weapon. Now you may say, “why wouldn’t he carry if he legally could”? I don’t have an answer. I was not required to carry off duty. Sometimes I did, sometimes I didn’t. However, there was always a concealable weapon someplace nearby. I did start carrying regularly after I walked into an armed robbery unarmed while off duty. The Colt Cobra in the glove box of my 1967 Firebird in the supermarket parking lot wasn’t of much use. I thought of that when I was laying on the floor of isle 3 with the rest of the customers. __________________ Air goes in and out. Blood goes 'round and 'round. Any variation on this is a very bad thing. 개인 정보를 보호하십시요

October 8, 2011, 02:29 PM	#19
TylerD45ACP Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2010 Posts: 1,654	AWESOME...Great job on the off duty officers part. He sounds like a beast, 4 v 1. Well techinally 2 but the officer did all the shooting. Is this guy related to Chuck Norris? It Sounds like something out of film almost doesnt it? Anyone have any idea what firearms were used in the shooting, I am just curious what the officer used.

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