Benelli revisited ....

Petre · January 19, 2006, 11:08 AM

I have been debating getting a Benelli Nova H20 or Remington 870 Marine Magnum...

Had made the decision to go with the Benelli , then was derailed when I found out the extensions were not only not available , but also illegal to install.

Since then I've gotten all kinds of advice for and contrary to the mag extensions and their legality. Seems there's literally 1000's of owners of Benellis that have mag extensions on them , many that sell em and none that do it believe it's illegal.

I really want the Benelli ... I just like it. It feels right. But I've actually decided to get both

My dilema with the Benelli extension , barring it's being illegal or not , was with the H20 , being a nickel plated gun , all the mag extensions found on the net are black.

Found a company that will make me a stainless , bead blasted one and I'm gonna do it. (A bit pricey but not bad) The guy says he sells 1000's of Benelli extensions and it's flat out NOT illegal.

My question is .... Am I gonna get thrown in jail if I put it on the gun ?

(Kinda joking , but I guess I'm asking is this truly illegal and how big a deal is it?)

DarthVader · January 19, 2006, 01:18 PM

This is what 27 CFR 478.39 says:

§ 478.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.

(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

(b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:

(1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or

(2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Director under the provisions of § 478.151; or

(3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the replacement of any part of such firearm.

(c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts are:

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings

(2) Barrels

(3) Barrel extensions

(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)

(5) Muzzle attachments

(6) Bolts

(7) Bolt carriers

(8) Operating rods

(9) Gas pistons

(10) Trigger housings

(11) Triggers

(12) Hammers

(13) Sears

(14) Disconnectors

(15) Buttstocks

(16) Pistol grips

(17) Forearms, handguards

(18) Magazine bodies

(19) Followers

(20) Floorplates

Thus, it seems that you could get a Rem 870 (not made up of over 10 imported parts) and put a huge magazine extension on it, but because the Benelli is made up of more than 10 imported parts, it legally cannot have a magazine of a capacity of over 5 shots. This really ticks me off!!!

DV

DarthVader · January 19, 2006, 01:29 PM

The "five rounds" limit comes from 27 CFR 478.11 (I think)... it defines a semi-automatic assault weapon as:

(d) A semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of --

(1) A folding or telescoping stock,

(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon,

(3) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds, and

(4) An ability to accept a detachable magazine.

So then a Nova with an extension isn't a "particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes" as mentioned in the above reg.

If I'm wrong about my understanding, please someone correct me.

DV

Petre · January 19, 2006, 01:59 PM

This is what I keep hearing ... and yet , not only are there a bunch of makers of USA MADE Benelli Mag Extensions , there's also a number of guys selling the actual factory ones (For ridiculous amounts of money)

My question is .... with all the guys that are doing it ... and we're talking 1000's is it really a big deal or not ???

expeditionx · January 19, 2006, 05:59 PM

Its illegal to combine the parts no question about that. If some one does they commited a felony.
Benelli would definitely be selling their shotguns with the extension if they could legally. If you ever use it to defend your home and a cop sees that it has an illegal extension you may an face ATF agent and could either end up with charges against you or at the very least have your shotgun confiscated.
You could get a good lawyer and fight it to the supreme court. You could make a case that 922 is unconstitutional. If you win the case youll be a hero in the gun culture. I own a FABARM FP6 imported by HK that I would love to add an extension but cant find any compliance parts to allow this.
So, it only can hold 5 rounds in the magazine.
My two remington 870's marine magnum and express hold 6 rounds in the mag.
If you want more capacity go with the remington. Milled steel receiver should last forever. All the tube extensions you want. The SAIGA12 semiauto shotguns are probably the most reliable design of semiauto shotguns based on the time proven AK action. The can use a 10 round USA made magazine because they have only 13 listed control parts. The magazine is 3 parts.
This allows 10 rounds plus one in the chamber. They are being imported currently and sold for about $400 retail. Im getting one myself late this month. http://www.toiminta-ampujat.net/pict...J_saiga_02.mpg

expeditionx · January 19, 2006, 06:11 PM

Actually I do have a decent solution for you if you want the Benelli with an extension. You can register it as a short barrel shotgun with the ATF.
To do this you need to fill out paperwork and have a local sheriff or police chief sign off on a form the ATF provides. The ATF runs a background check then you pay something like $200 and you receive a short barrel shotgun tax stamp. You can then add an extension, shorten the barrel less than 18 inches if you want, or add a collapsing stock to the semiauto version benelli like military version uses.

expeditionx · January 19, 2006, 10:27 PM

Heres the a link to the form online. Fill it out - get your LEO signoff - pay your $200 and you get a tax stamp in the mail. Same form is used for : short barrel rifle/shotgun, noise suppressor/silencer, machine gun, destructive device .
http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f53204.pdf

BigFunWMU · January 20, 2006, 01:23 AM

um....

All these regulations talk about SEMI AUTO shotguns/rifles

the Nova is a PUMP....

Am I missing something?

expeditionx · January 20, 2006, 01:58 AM

Pump action is read into the law as semiauto. Dont know how that happened but Congress tied it in the early 1990's. Thats why pump action shotguns arnt imported with more than 5 round tubes. Even a pump is considered non-sporting with a tube magazine/detachable magazine over 5 rounds

BigFunWMU · January 20, 2006, 02:04 AM

Wow, thats a big hot steamy load of..........:barf:

Stupid congress....

expeditionx · January 20, 2006, 02:18 AM

Most shotguns are over .50 caliber. The 1930's NFA law dictates any firearm over .50 caliber would by definition fall into a destructive device category.
The Government gets to decide which guns over .50 caliber are sporting enough to allow domestic or foreign made. .700 nitro rifles and such because their nature are allowed but can be prohibited at any time because of their bore size. Shotguns fall under this too. This is why domestic and foreign made shotguns that were too unsporting were declared destructive devices.
Such shotguns now have to be registered with the same form I posted a link to. Remember hearing of a street sweeper shotgun? It was declared a DD.
There is alot of ATF control on interpretation of these laws.

With imports they have more leverage to do as they please.
Anything that you could buy imported that would give a common person more fire power than what regular law enforcement have, would be considered too evil to let in.
The NFA was signed into law by the democrats all time hero Franklin D. Roosevelt. The NFA law was a gateway law into gun control.
The GCA was signed into law by Johnson another democrat.
The assult weapon ban was signed into law by Bill Clinton another democrat. George Bush senior might have got pressured into import restrictions in 1989-90 as an amendment to the GCA, but imports were already restricted since 1968. Its all become a big steamy pile.

Petre · January 20, 2006, 09:43 AM

Thanks ExpeditionX .... So far I trust the info you've given the most

Anyone trying to sell me something is suspect and Benelli owners with Extension Mags can't really be trusted to give accurate info either.

I think I may look into that "Tax Stamp"

Buddy down the street is a local LEO. Should be no problem getting him to sign off on it.

January 19, 2006, 11:08 AM	#1
Petre Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 634	Benelli revisited .... I have been debating getting a Benelli Nova H20 or Remington 870 Marine Magnum... Had made the decision to go with the Benelli , then was derailed when I found out the extensions were not only not available , but also illegal to install. Since then I've gotten all kinds of advice for and contrary to the mag extensions and their legality. Seems there's literally 1000's of owners of Benellis that have mag extensions on them , many that sell em and none that do it believe it's illegal. I really want the Benelli ... I just like it. It feels right. But I've actually decided to get both My dilema with the Benelli extension , barring it's being illegal or not , was with the H20 , being a nickel plated gun , all the mag extensions found on the net are black. Found a company that will make me a stainless , bead blasted one and I'm gonna do it. (A bit pricey but not bad) The guy says he sells 1000's of Benelli extensions and it's flat out NOT illegal. My question is .... Am I gonna get thrown in jail if I put it on the gun ? (Kinda joking , but I guess I'm asking is this truly illegal and how big a deal is it?)

January 20, 2006, 01:23 AM	#8
BigFunWMU Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2005 Posts: 304	um.... All these regulations talk about SEMI AUTO shotguns/rifles the Nova is a PUMP.... Am I missing something? __________________ "Anarchism is founded on the observation that since few men are wise enough to rule themselves, even fewer are wise enough to rule others." - Edward Abbey

January 20, 2006, 02:04 AM	#10
BigFunWMU Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2005 Posts: 304	Wow, thats a big hot steamy load of..........:barf: Stupid congress.... __________________ "Anarchism is founded on the observation that since few men are wise enough to rule themselves, even fewer are wise enough to rule others." - Edward Abbey

January 19, 2006, 01:18 PM	#2
DarthVader Member Join Date: June 30, 2005 Posts: 58	This is what 27 CFR 478.39 says: § 478.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns. (a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes. (b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to: (1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or (2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Director under the provisions of § 478.151; or (3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the replacement of any part of such firearm. (c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts are: (1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings (2) Barrels (3) Barrel extensions (4) Mounting blocks (trunions) (5) Muzzle attachments (6) Bolts (7) Bolt carriers (8) Operating rods (9) Gas pistons (10) Trigger housings (11) Triggers (12) Hammers (13) Sears (14) Disconnectors (15) Buttstocks (16) Pistol grips (17) Forearms, handguards (18) Magazine bodies (19) Followers (20) Floorplates Thus, it seems that you could get a Rem 870 (not made up of over 10 imported parts) and put a huge magazine extension on it, but because the Benelli is made up of more than 10 imported parts, it legally cannot have a magazine of a capacity of over 5 shots. This really ticks me off!!! DV

January 19, 2006, 01:29 PM	#3
DarthVader Member Join Date: June 30, 2005 Posts: 58	The "five rounds" limit comes from 27 CFR 478.11 (I think)... it defines a semi-automatic assault weapon as: (d) A semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of -- (1) A folding or telescoping stock, (2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, (3) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds, and (4) An ability to accept a detachable magazine. So then a Nova with an extension isn't a "particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes" as mentioned in the above reg. If I'm wrong about my understanding, please someone correct me. DV

January 19, 2006, 01:59 PM	#4
Petre Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 634	This is what I keep hearing ... and yet , not only are there a bunch of makers of USA MADE Benelli Mag Extensions , there's also a number of guys selling the actual factory ones (For ridiculous amounts of money) My question is .... with all the guys that are doing it ... and we're talking 1000's is it really a big deal or not ???

January 19, 2006, 05:59 PM	#5
expeditionx Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2004 Posts: 330	Its illegal to combine the parts no question about that. If some one does they commited a felony. Benelli would definitely be selling their shotguns with the extension if they could legally. If you ever use it to defend your home and a cop sees that it has an illegal extension you may an face ATF agent and could either end up with charges against you or at the very least have your shotgun confiscated. You could get a good lawyer and fight it to the supreme court. You could make a case that 922 is unconstitutional. If you win the case youll be a hero in the gun culture. I own a FABARM FP6 imported by HK that I would love to add an extension but cant find any compliance parts to allow this. So, it only can hold 5 rounds in the magazine. My two remington 870's marine magnum and express hold 6 rounds in the mag. If you want more capacity go with the remington. Milled steel receiver should last forever. All the tube extensions you want. The SAIGA12 semiauto shotguns are probably the most reliable design of semiauto shotguns based on the time proven AK action. The can use a 10 round USA made magazine because they have only 13 listed control parts. The magazine is 3 parts. This allows 10 rounds plus one in the chamber. They are being imported currently and sold for about $400 retail. Im getting one myself late this month. http://www.toiminta-ampujat.net/pict...J_saiga_02.mpg

January 19, 2006, 06:11 PM	#6
expeditionx Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2004 Posts: 330	Actually I do have a decent solution for you if you want the Benelli with an extension. You can register it as a short barrel shotgun with the ATF. To do this you need to fill out paperwork and have a local sheriff or police chief sign off on a form the ATF provides. The ATF runs a background check then you pay something like $200 and you receive a short barrel shotgun tax stamp. You can then add an extension, shorten the barrel less than 18 inches if you want, or add a collapsing stock to the semiauto version benelli like military version uses.

January 19, 2006, 10:27 PM	#7
expeditionx Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2004 Posts: 330	Heres the a link to the form online. Fill it out - get your LEO signoff - pay your $200 and you get a tax stamp in the mail. Same form is used for : short barrel rifle/shotgun, noise suppressor/silencer, machine gun, destructive device . http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f53204.pdf

January 20, 2006, 01:58 AM	#9
expeditionx Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2004 Posts: 330	Pump action is read into the law as semiauto. Dont know how that happened but Congress tied it in the early 1990's. Thats why pump action shotguns arnt imported with more than 5 round tubes. Even a pump is considered non-sporting with a tube magazine/detachable magazine over 5 rounds

January 20, 2006, 02:18 AM	#11
expeditionx Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2004 Posts: 330	Most shotguns are over .50 caliber. The 1930's NFA law dictates any firearm over .50 caliber would by definition fall into a destructive device category. The Government gets to decide which guns over .50 caliber are sporting enough to allow domestic or foreign made. .700 nitro rifles and such because their nature are allowed but can be prohibited at any time because of their bore size. Shotguns fall under this too. This is why domestic and foreign made shotguns that were too unsporting were declared destructive devices. Such shotguns now have to be registered with the same form I posted a link to. Remember hearing of a street sweeper shotgun? It was declared a DD. There is alot of ATF control on interpretation of these laws. With imports they have more leverage to do as they please. Anything that you could buy imported that would give a common person more fire power than what regular law enforcement have, would be considered too evil to let in. The NFA was signed into law by the democrats all time hero Franklin D. Roosevelt. The NFA law was a gateway law into gun control. The GCA was signed into law by Johnson another democrat. The assult weapon ban was signed into law by Bill Clinton another democrat. George Bush senior might have got pressured into import restrictions in 1989-90 as an amendment to the GCA, but imports were already restricted since 1968. Its all become a big steamy pile.

January 20, 2006, 09:43 AM	#12
Petre Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 634	Thanks ExpeditionX .... So far I trust the info you've given the most Anyone trying to sell me something is suspect and Benelli owners with Extension Mags can't really be trusted to give accurate info either. I think I may look into that "Tax Stamp" Buddy down the street is a local LEO. Should be no problem getting him to sign off on it.