45-70 Pistol Load Question?

[Full-choke]

I have a TC Encore 45-70 Pistol barrel that I use for deer hunting. This year I shot some 300 and 405 grain factory rifle loads out of the barrel. They shot good and was cleaning both sides of a plastic 55 gallon drum at 50-60 yards. But, my question is since the gun has a 12" barrel, would it be possible/better to use pistol powder in loads for that gun rather then the conventional rifle powder? And, how would it affect the ballistics of it? Will it still kill a deer?

Thanks,
F-C

[rwilson452]

I haven't seen any loads published for using pistol powders. its not an area I would care to experiment in. It could lead to overpressure real fast. Stick with published loads.

[Doc44]

Hey the 45-70 pistol evan with factory loads is Heep's of fun! You can try these loads I have used them and they work great, I got them from the P.O. Ackley's reloading manual. 300 gr. bullet with 24-30 grains of 2400, up to 1800 fs. For the 405 gr. bullet with 23-27 grains of 2400 gets around 1550 fs. I have used these loads in the Marlin and the Contender. One of my friends killed a nice elk with the 405 and 27 grns. of 2400. Good luck, Doc

[snuffy]

Hey the 45-70 pistol evan with factory loads is Heep's of fun!

If you call having the muzzle up alongside your ear under full recoil fun, well have lots of fun! It's an experience that everybody should have ONCE, just to say you did it! It's akin to having your hand hit with a 2 X 4 while you have it sitting against a table. Been there, done that, got the T shirt!

If I were trying to shoot an encore in 45/70, I'd either have a good muzzle brake put on it, OR develope some loads with pistol/shotgun powders. There's lots of them out there.

The short 12" bbl will benefit from faster burning pistol/shotgun loads. Rifle powders will give lower velocities along with excessive muzzle flash.

Trail boss would be a good one to experiment with, it fills the case, burns fast and completely. Recoil and velocity will be moderate, but a 300 or 405 bullet will still kill cleanly at 12-1300 fps.

[Full-choke]

My barrel does have a muzzle brake, and TBCO I find it quite enjoyable to shoot. Of course I am dawning Pachmyr grips as well, which really makes it the cat's meow.

My thought is with some of you as well, I want to use pistol powder to get the quicker burn, try and get more velocity out of the short barrel. My concern is the rapid build up of pressure and the fact that it may be too much for the case and the barrel. I was just wondering if there were any published loads or anything like it out there, I don't even know if it would be something smart to try or not.

Anyways, thanks for the help guys, we shall see what comes of it! If I get brave enough I might just tinker with it myself...

F-C

[Unclenick]

Doc's suggestion of 2400 is a good one. It was probably the most commonly used magnum pistol load powder before H110/296 was introduced. It doesn't have the difficult ignition that fine ball powder does.

I got the T-shirt myself, via a friend who liked working with hotter .45-70 loads originally developed by Ken Waters and, I think maybe some the folks at SSK had described at one point. These were all in his 10" Contender with no muzzle brake, so it offered more recoil and a less broad grip to cushion the blow to the hand than the wider Encore does. I can remember the edges of the hammer cutting a couple of groves in the web between my thumb and index finger, it flipped up so hard on recoil. I was probably showing off and firing it offhand. I think the powder was IMR 4227.

You have a misconception about powder pressure peaks. A fast powder will reach its peak faster than a slow powder (obviously). This means it will make all its gas before the bullet has moved as far down the barrel as a slow powder would allow. That means its gas is packed into a smaller space, so you can't use a fast powder to make as much gas as you can a slow powder, or the pressure will get too high. But that's all you have to worry about. As long as you use the reduced charge needed to keep the peak within the same safe limit as you would a slower powder, the gun won't mind it any more than seeing the same peak from slower powder. In fact, it minds it slightly less from the standpoint of sustained pressure fatigue because it is over with sooner.

The only time fast gas generation gets to be an issue is when it occurs at detonation velocities, and there is little danger of that in cases filled to 20% of powder capacity or more. Indeed, the only documented case of detonation I have seen occurred with a charge below 10% of case capacity.