Shooting my '58's - Page 4

Smokin_Gun · December 18, 2005, 09:44 PM

I gotta see this Rem Man... couldn't make it there today too much to do ta get packed and ready to fly on tuesday...glad to hear you had a great time.

Merry Christmas Old Dragoon!

Wayner · December 19, 2005, 08:51 PM

Old Dragoon, your 44 Colt cases are .457 diameter then? So the die is lapped or reamed for the .451 bullet? With your Rem with the shortened barrel...what was the barrel length to begin with? Eight inches? Anywhooo, got the phone number to "Old West Moulds"?

Wayner · December 19, 2005, 09:31 PM

Good shootin Old Dragoon.

Old Dragoon · December 19, 2005, 09:50 PM

Wayner,
Both Starline and Blackhills(I just figured out the 2000 Colt 44 brass I have are Black Hills Ammo not Starline) 44 Colt brass are .451 Dia. nom.. Case and bullet drive bands are the same dia.
I don't know but the sizer die started out as a .450 dia, so I imagine that it is reamed or polished to .451 Dia.

BBL length was 8 inches, now 6 inches. Bernie at Old West will treat you right.

Smokin_Gun · December 20, 2005, 02:34 AM

I guess I was correct on the .451 dia. Wayne...I cheated case I knew the Kirst add said .45Colt will not fit inthe .44Colt cyl. for the rems...HeHe. What do ya think Wayne, I'd like to pick up that 1858 Old Silver from Deputy first. Then get a Drop-in was plannin on the R&D .45LC convertstion till I saw the add for this Kirst .44Colt SIX shot...then I met Old Dragoon. Old Dragoon it's all your fault ya went and gave me another bug...LoL! When I get back from N.Y. we'll meet up and I''ll take ya up on your offer, Ok?
Anyway Wayne do ya see the complexity of my dilema? Help me out Bud what would ya do? I got the .45LC in my Dragoon...thinkin maybe the spic a life ya know? HeHe!
Gotta try toget some sleep and bet the early AM traffic..see a when I see ya.
Merry Christmas!

Old Dragoon · December 20, 2005, 08:42 AM

SG, Wayner,
Have a safe journey and a MERRY CHRISTMAS and a HAPPY NEW YEAR!
I know about "order of things" thing, I still have to get another Konverter for the second pistol, finish it and the third "58 will be here hopefully by Sat.

Sorry about that, but I'm sold on this Konverter and cartridge...and it is an authentic cartridge for the Rem. Conversions. Everything to make this cartridge is available at Old West Moulds, Almost any place like Buffalo, black hills , Midway or Starline carry the 44 Colt Brass. I like the Kirst 44 Rem Konverter. It is a dream to install and remove from the gun, actually quicker than the original BP cylinder, due to the special maching channel to miss the hand.

I LIKE the idea that I, Myself, Me, and no one else, can choose, or dictate to me, which cylinder to leave empty(or not) on any given occaision You bet 6 holes are better than 5 and a "Park".

This conversion sure got a lot of attention last Sunday at the CAS match, so did the whole pistol, especially the way I was able to shoot it. I shot the pistol stages only and after 3 stages, (30 shots) I needed to service the revolver. I was using only SPG Lube, ididn't bind up completely but was slowing down. I know now that with two pistols and only the SPG lube I can shoot 4 or 5 stages without binding. Maybe the Bore Butter will be better.

I went out yesterday and got some Bore Butter and some EZ-Lube supposedly stiffer, both appear to be exactly the same right down to the ground, even the smell.

I will lube the next run of cartridges with the Bore- Butter in my Luber-Sizer. I also will do some of the tricks that RK told about freeing up the cylinder/Pin.
All in all the trial run went very well. First time with the Cartridge Konverter and the ejector assy.

Old Dragoon · December 20, 2005, 02:45 PM

Wayner,
Just sent you an email with Old West's data.

CD

Oldelm · December 20, 2005, 07:30 PM

Hey Old Dragoon,..... been reading your posts here about your using the .44 Kirst Conversion with the .44Rem/Colt bullet, and it's peakin my interest, too. Sounds like you're having alot of fun with it, and it seems to be quite consistently accurate with the .44Rem/Colt heeled bullet from Old West Moulds. Do you cast em with as soft a lead as possible? Or do you mix a little alloy in to harden some. Also was wondering if that mould for single, 2 or 4 bullet cavity? I've just been shooting 200gr and 250gr Big Lube bullets in .45 LC case in my 5.5" '58 Rem, which I'll continue to do,......but will be considerin picking up the Kirst .44 conversion if you folks keep the juices flowin about the .44Rem/Colt round here the way you have,...LOL!!

Happy Holidays to ya!

Old Dragoon · December 20, 2005, 08:42 PM

I have not bought a mould from Old West yet. He has 2,4,6 cavity moulds. I Just bought 500 of the .248 Grn Heeled bullets from Old West. He shoots too so I'm sure it's the softest he can make. Don't know right off the composition.
I fully intend to get a Konverter in 45 LC also, probably for a belly gun. Neat to have one gun that shoots two calibers....The 44 Rem does seem to fly pretty well at Cowboy Ranges. This partivular loading seems to be consistant in everything. They feel the same, sound the same, and shoot the same. Got several comments to that effect on Sunday.

I'll post Bernie's info:
Old West Moulds
1175 17 1/4 Rd.
Fruita, Co. 81521
Email: [email protected]
Phone: 970-858-1449
Bernie Rowles is the owner. He'll treat you right

CD

Oldelm · December 20, 2005, 11:33 PM

Old Dragoon,...thanks for the info about the moulds and the contact info about Old West. I'll have to look into it.
cheers!

Old Dragoon · December 21, 2005, 09:29 AM

Oldelm and Wayner, you too SG,
Thought you all would like to see the finished Kirst conversion of my sixshooter.
This is a 2002 pietta 1858 Remington. It came to me unfired and not even a turn line on the BP cylinder in the blue.

Oldelm · December 21, 2005, 03:31 PM

Very, Very nice there, Old Dragoon. I think I goota wipe some drool outa my keyboard,..LOL!! Good work you done.
Those heeled bullets look attractive with their bold little heads stickin out just waiting to drive some tacks,..yer gettin me goin on this Kirst .44 Rem/Colt thing,.....I gotta say. I like the way Kirst makes the ejector rod integral with the cyl. pin,...different than the originals, but a creative workaround from doing all the milling into the frame the way the originals were built. Thanks for showing us those pics!

I just bought a "Shooters" Rem from Dixie,...hasn't arrived yet,....gotta sell some of my Colt replicas to re-group the cost,.....but couldn't resist the on-sale price at Dixie for $350. They said they wouldn't be carrying them anymore once the remainder are gone. I sure hope they send me a decent one, cause Wayne mentioned over on the Voy that Dixie sometimes sells factory flaws. I'll see.

Old Dragoon · December 21, 2005, 03:52 PM

That is a great price on the Shooter's pistol. If there is something wrong with it send it back ASAP, call them and tell them that you expect a good one. I think the QC on the shooters Pistols may be a bit better than the regular guns. JMO.

I'm hoping that the '58 I just bought is a Shooter's Pistol too. The front sight and the rammer latch ar both supposedly dovetailed into the BBL., a possible indication that it is. I'll be one happy camper if it is, indeed, so. I should have it in a few days.

Oldelm · December 21, 2005, 04:44 PM

If that '58 you just bought is a Pietta, then I would think that if the front sight & rammer latch are dovetailed in,...then it would have to be the Shooters,( I think the Shooters are Pietta's only '58s with those dovetailed features)......in which case you should be a happy camper!! But I guess it's best not to get too psyched ahead of time,until you can actually have it in your hands and make that call. Good luck,....let us know what it is.

Old Dragoon · December 21, 2005, 05:18 PM

Yep. It is a pietta ''58 Rem. I did email and ask the seller about that as in one picture it appeared that the rammer latch was dovetailed. I inquired about the front sight and the rammer latch. They answered yes they were dovetailed....we'll see. I'm not getting my hopes up, as even if it isn't I got a great deal on it.
It supposedly has a gold trigger too, haven't the foggiest idea where that comes from. Like I say We'll see when it gets here in a few days.

Oldelm · December 21, 2005, 06:22 PM

What grips have you got on that '58? I like the "old ivory" look about them,...especially what looks like a vertical grain line at top/back section of grip.

Old Dragoon · December 21, 2005, 07:35 PM

Oldelm,
The grips are from Grip,com specifically for a pietta '58 and come lilly white called Ivory-like, I aged them and that grain line is a minute surface stress crack that just happened when I was applying heat to the grips, pretty cool huh? The other grip didn't crack, I tried , but I didn't want to burn the grip up...LOL
I soaked them in Lemon juice, Lime juice and Apple Cider Vinegar then went over them with a butane torch...almost too much.........they will burn.

I suppose that someone better than me could scrimshaw grain in the grips, like an old powder horn is carved, May have to try that on the new set I have for the other pistol.

If you look back at some of my earlier posts there are other pictures of both my '58's, both Pietta's.

Oldelm · December 21, 2005, 08:21 PM

Yea, that is cool the way they can crack with a little coaxing with the special tricks. I like the unpredictability of that kind of thing. It's kinda the way things age & change naturally,...but artificially speeded up. I'm used to playing around that way with antique restoration.

I kinda like the jigged bone grips on that site, too.

http://www.gungrip.com/product_info.php?products_id=558

There's a guy ,Marshall Wingham, I think is his handle, over on the SCORRS site at CasCity. He's got the jigged bone grips on his Rem Navies. Do you ever view or post there? I'll bet they'd love to see your Rems and would bet Bull Schmitt would ask if he could post the pics on the Scorrs Photo Gallery page where there's lots of great looking Remmys.....

http://www.scorrs.org/

Yea, ...I've been lookin back at the earlier posts here, and saw your other pics,.....I like Remington Kid's pics, too.
Thanks for your friendly sharing,...it's nice being around here.

December 18, 2005, 09:44 PM	#76
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	I gotta see this Rem Man... couldn't make it there today too much to do ta get packed and ready to fly on tuesday...glad to hear you had a great time. Merry Christmas Old Dragoon! __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

December 20, 2005, 02:34 AM	#80
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	I guess I was correct on the .451 dia. Wayne...I cheated case I knew the Kirst add said .45Colt will not fit inthe .44Colt cyl. for the rems...HeHe. What do ya think Wayne, I'd like to pick up that 1858 Old Silver from Deputy first. Then get a Drop-in was plannin on the R&D .45LC convertstion till I saw the add for this Kirst .44Colt SIX shot...then I met Old Dragoon. Old Dragoon it's all your fault ya went and gave me another bug...LoL! When I get back from N.Y. we'll meet up and I''ll take ya up on your offer, Ok? Anyway Wayne do ya see the complexity of my dilema? Help me out Bud what would ya do? I got the .45LC in my Dragoon...thinkin maybe the spic a life ya know? HeHe! Gotta try toget some sleep and bet the early AM traffic..see a when I see ya. Merry Christmas! __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

December 21, 2005, 09:29 AM	#86
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	adding fuel to the fire.......... Oldelm and Wayner, you too SG, Thought you all would like to see the finished Kirst conversion of my sixshooter. This is a 2002 pietta 1858 Remington. It came to me unfired and not even a turn line on the BP cylinder in the blue.

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December 19, 2005, 08:51 PM	#77
Wayner Senior Member Join Date: December 8, 2005 Posts: 116	Old Dragoon, your 44 Colt cases are .457 diameter then? So the die is lapped or reamed for the .451 bullet? With your Rem with the shortened barrel...what was the barrel length to begin with? Eight inches? Anywhooo, got the phone number to "Old West Moulds"?

December 19, 2005, 09:31 PM	#78
Wayner Senior Member Join Date: December 8, 2005 Posts: 116	Good shootin Old Dragoon.

December 19, 2005, 09:50 PM	#79
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	Wayner, Both Starline and Blackhills(I just figured out the 2000 Colt 44 brass I have are Black Hills Ammo not Starline) 44 Colt brass are .451 Dia. nom.. Case and bullet drive bands are the same dia. I don't know but the sizer die started out as a .450 dia, so I imagine that it is reamed or polished to .451 Dia. BBL length was 8 inches, now 6 inches. Bernie at Old West will treat you right.

December 20, 2005, 08:42 AM	#81
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	SG, Wayner, Have a safe journey and a MERRY CHRISTMAS and a HAPPY NEW YEAR! I know about "order of things" thing, I still have to get another Konverter for the second pistol, finish it and the third "58 will be here hopefully by Sat. Sorry about that, but I'm sold on this Konverter and cartridge...and it is an authentic cartridge for the Rem. Conversions. Everything to make this cartridge is available at Old West Moulds, Almost any place like Buffalo, black hills , Midway or Starline carry the 44 Colt Brass. I like the Kirst 44 Rem Konverter. It is a dream to install and remove from the gun, actually quicker than the original BP cylinder, due to the special maching channel to miss the hand. I LIKE the idea that I, Myself, Me, and no one else, can choose, or dictate to me, which cylinder to leave empty(or not) on any given occaision You bet 6 holes are better than 5 and a "Park". This conversion sure got a lot of attention last Sunday at the CAS match, so did the whole pistol, especially the way I was able to shoot it. I shot the pistol stages only and after 3 stages, (30 shots) I needed to service the revolver. I was using only SPG Lube, ididn't bind up completely but was slowing down. I know now that with two pistols and only the SPG lube I can shoot 4 or 5 stages without binding. Maybe the Bore Butter will be better. I went out yesterday and got some Bore Butter and some EZ-Lube supposedly stiffer, both appear to be exactly the same right down to the ground, even the smell. I will lube the next run of cartridges with the Bore- Butter in my Luber-Sizer. I also will do some of the tricks that RK told about freeing up the cylinder/Pin. All in all the trial run went very well. First time with the Cartridge Konverter and the ejector assy.

December 20, 2005, 02:45 PM	#82
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	Wayner, Just sent you an email with Old West's data. CD

December 20, 2005, 07:30 PM	#83
Oldelm Member Join Date: December 14, 2005 Posts: 62	Hey Old Dragoon,..... been reading your posts here about your using the .44 Kirst Conversion with the .44Rem/Colt bullet, and it's peakin my interest, too. Sounds like you're having alot of fun with it, and it seems to be quite consistently accurate with the .44Rem/Colt heeled bullet from Old West Moulds. Do you cast em with as soft a lead as possible? Or do you mix a little alloy in to harden some. Also was wondering if that mould for single, 2 or 4 bullet cavity? I've just been shooting 200gr and 250gr Big Lube bullets in .45 LC case in my 5.5" '58 Rem, which I'll continue to do,......but will be considerin picking up the Kirst .44 conversion if you folks keep the juices flowin about the .44Rem/Colt round here the way you have,...LOL!! Happy Holidays to ya!

December 20, 2005, 08:42 PM	#84
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	I have not bought a mould from Old West yet. He has 2,4,6 cavity moulds. I Just bought 500 of the .248 Grn Heeled bullets from Old West. He shoots too so I'm sure it's the softest he can make. Don't know right off the composition. I fully intend to get a Konverter in 45 LC also, probably for a belly gun. Neat to have one gun that shoots two calibers....The 44 Rem does seem to fly pretty well at Cowboy Ranges. This partivular loading seems to be consistant in everything. They feel the same, sound the same, and shoot the same. Got several comments to that effect on Sunday. I'll post Bernie's info: Old West Moulds 1175 17 1/4 Rd. Fruita, Co. 81521 Email: [email protected] Phone: 970-858-1449 Bernie Rowles is the owner. He'll treat you right CD

December 20, 2005, 11:33 PM	#85
Oldelm Member Join Date: December 14, 2005 Posts: 62	Old Dragoon,...thanks for the info about the moulds and the contact info about Old West. I'll have to look into it. cheers!

December 21, 2005, 03:31 PM	#87
Oldelm Member Join Date: December 14, 2005 Posts: 62	Very, Very nice there, Old Dragoon. I think I goota wipe some drool outa my keyboard,..LOL!! Good work you done. Those heeled bullets look attractive with their bold little heads stickin out just waiting to drive some tacks,..yer gettin me goin on this Kirst .44 Rem/Colt thing,.....I gotta say. I like the way Kirst makes the ejector rod integral with the cyl. pin,...different than the originals, but a creative workaround from doing all the milling into the frame the way the originals were built. Thanks for showing us those pics! I just bought a "Shooters" Rem from Dixie,...hasn't arrived yet,....gotta sell some of my Colt replicas to re-group the cost,.....but couldn't resist the on-sale price at Dixie for $350. They said they wouldn't be carrying them anymore once the remainder are gone. I sure hope they send me a decent one, cause Wayne mentioned over on the Voy that Dixie sometimes sells factory flaws. I'll see.

December 21, 2005, 03:52 PM	#88
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	That is a great price on the Shooter's pistol. If there is something wrong with it send it back ASAP, call them and tell them that you expect a good one. I think the QC on the shooters Pistols may be a bit better than the regular guns. JMO. I'm hoping that the '58 I just bought is a Shooter's Pistol too. The front sight and the rammer latch ar both supposedly dovetailed into the BBL., a possible indication that it is. I'll be one happy camper if it is, indeed, so. I should have it in a few days.

December 21, 2005, 04:44 PM	#89
Oldelm Member Join Date: December 14, 2005 Posts: 62	If that '58 you just bought is a Pietta, then I would think that if the front sight & rammer latch are dovetailed in,...then it would have to be the Shooters,( I think the Shooters are Pietta's only '58s with those dovetailed features)......in which case you should be a happy camper!! But I guess it's best not to get too psyched ahead of time,until you can actually have it in your hands and make that call. Good luck,....let us know what it is.

December 21, 2005, 05:18 PM	#90
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	Yep. It is a pietta ''58 Rem. I did email and ask the seller about that as in one picture it appeared that the rammer latch was dovetailed. I inquired about the front sight and the rammer latch. They answered yes they were dovetailed....we'll see. I'm not getting my hopes up, as even if it isn't I got a great deal on it. It supposedly has a gold trigger too, haven't the foggiest idea where that comes from. Like I say We'll see when it gets here in a few days.

December 21, 2005, 06:22 PM	#91
Oldelm Member Join Date: December 14, 2005 Posts: 62	What grips have you got on that '58? I like the "old ivory" look about them,...especially what looks like a vertical grain line at top/back section of grip.

December 21, 2005, 07:35 PM	#92
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	Oldelm, The grips are from Grip,com specifically for a pietta '58 and come lilly white called Ivory-like, I aged them and that grain line is a minute surface stress crack that just happened when I was applying heat to the grips, pretty cool huh? The other grip didn't crack, I tried , but I didn't want to burn the grip up...LOL I soaked them in Lemon juice, Lime juice and Apple Cider Vinegar then went over them with a butane torch...almost too much.........they will burn. I suppose that someone better than me could scrimshaw grain in the grips, like an old powder horn is carved, May have to try that on the new set I have for the other pistol. If you look back at some of my earlier posts there are other pictures of both my '58's, both Pietta's.

December 21, 2005, 08:21 PM	#93
Oldelm Member Join Date: December 14, 2005 Posts: 62	Yea, that is cool the way they can crack with a little coaxing with the special tricks. I like the unpredictability of that kind of thing. It's kinda the way things age & change naturally,...but artificially speeded up. I'm used to playing around that way with antique restoration. I kinda like the jigged bone grips on that site, too. http://www.gungrip.com/product_info.php?products_id=558 There's a guy ,Marshall Wingham, I think is his handle, over on the SCORRS site at CasCity. He's got the jigged bone grips on his Rem Navies. Do you ever view or post there? I'll bet they'd love to see your Rems and would bet Bull Schmitt would ask if he could post the pics on the Scorrs Photo Gallery page where there's lots of great looking Remmys..... http://www.scorrs.org/ Yea, ...I've been lookin back at the earlier posts here, and saw your other pics,.....I like Remington Kid's pics, too. Thanks for your friendly sharing,...it's nice being around here.