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Old February 19, 2008, 09:59 PM   #1
lcberlin
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.25 acp

I am thinking about reloading the .25 acp, and was wondering what anybody's experience was in this area.

Thanks!
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Old February 20, 2008, 12:54 PM   #2
LAH
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Experience you ask?

While sorting brass I've found some of this stuff. Wondered if I could ever get rid of it unless sold for scrap. The case is very, very small and would guess a person would need small fingers. No one I know of loads it.....Creeker
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Old February 20, 2008, 09:11 PM   #3
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I've had people look at me funny when I tell them I hand load .32 acp. Still, there is reloading info in my manuals for the .25, so it can be done. One thing I would advise: do not trust ANY powder measure to be accurate with the tiny powder charges you will be using. Weigh each and every charge. A difference of a few tenths of a grain can leave your pressure so low that you will end up with a bullet stuck in the barrel.
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Old February 21, 2008, 01:02 AM   #4
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Want some dies? I had a Bauer 25, I thought what the hey, I'll load for it. Bullets were available, don't know if they still are. I bought 50 grain rem. FMC, I even got a lyman boolit mold for it. IIRC it took 1.5 grains of bullseye! Another problem was finding the empties among the 22 shells at the range. A real exercise in futility! Not for someone in a hurry. You just about need tweezers to handle those little SOB"s.
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Old February 21, 2008, 01:33 AM   #5
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I reloaded some about 25 years ago. Never again. 1.3 gr of Bullseye and a 50 gr FMJ into a case 5/8" long. Talk about a PIA! The powder funnel spout is longer than the case, so trying to get the powder funnel over the mouth of the case and getting all the powder into the case was a chore in itself. And weighing 1.3 gr of powder, oh I won't even go into it. The things we do for love.
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Old February 21, 2008, 07:03 AM   #6
eme
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When I had a 25 caliber, I reloaded for it. Like a post above said, hand weigh all your powder, do not trust a drop. The little casings are a bit to handle, but after you do a few you'll get use to them. Lee makes fine dies for this caliber and others. What I like about the Lee dies, is the adjustable bullet seater and the fact that if you load round nose or wad cutter or do not have to do any switching of the die, from one bullet to the other. Just my little
phobia. Good luck in your quest.
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Old February 24, 2008, 02:22 AM   #7
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I am thinking of reloading .25 too. When you see that the ammo costs more than 45 auto its enough to make you wonder.

No local stores sell dies nor bullets for 25, so I guess it would be a special order or online order for me.

They are little buggars, but if you can find a bullet at a good price you have to save a bundle reloading them.
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Old February 24, 2008, 02:30 AM   #8
scottw10
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I reloaded for 25 ACP for a long time and it takes getting used to the really short case and small size. Biggest problem I had was keeping from getting my fingers in the way. Get the Lee dies and put the powder in through the die top and you can use a Redding Pistol measure or one that is as accurate for dropping powder. 25 is a blast to shoot.
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Old February 25, 2008, 11:32 AM   #9
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Similar experiences here

I bought one of the very first Bauers to arrive in Fort Worth, I think in 1971. The first two at Knight's Gun Shop were snatched up by employees. I arrived just as they were unpacking them and asked when I could get one. They said someone was going to the distributor in Dallas and I could have one the following afternoon. I was there at like, 12:02 pm.

Had to wait for a half hour but I got to take my pick of about six of them. Some had wood stock panels and some Jay Scott laminated plastic "pearl." I got the wood version and also RCBS dies and Remington 50 gr. bullets. I soon made a wallet holster and this became my "Always Gun" for years.

Yes, the little cases were hard to locate amongst the .22 empties. I tried both Unique and Bullseye powder, and got the better results with the latter. I also weighed each charge.

CAUTION: Please, DO NOT EXCEED published maximum loads: The 50 gr FMJ over 1.3 gr. of Bullseye or 1.7 of Unique. This is a very light little pistol with a straight blowback action. It's easy to damage one by trying to "improve" the velocity.

The necks of my powder funnels were too long for the short lil' case. I solved it by first expanding a .223 case so it would fit over the outside of a resized .25 case. Then I cut the .223 off near the base. I deburred the inside but left the outside rough. This made a good fit into a plactic Flambeau powder funnel. Problem solved.

I practiced with that little Bauer and got pretty good with it, too. It's well over 20 years since I loaded for it, though. When I quit carrying the .25 as a backup (went to an Airweight Chief), it was just one of those projects that was too much trouble to continue.

I bought some cast .25 bullets --cute lil' boogers-- but never got around to experimenting with them. They're still lin my loading schtuph, 25 years afterward.

It's entirely possible to get highly satisfactory results, loading .25 ACP. It's just a lot more trouble than, say, .38 Special.

Best of luck
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Old February 25, 2008, 01:52 PM   #10
tom234
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Seems to me it would be more logical to buy a small pocket .22 rimfire and forget reloading the .25 ACP. The .22 would be a heck of a lot cheaper to shoot and I think the ballistics are better.
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Old February 25, 2008, 05:59 PM   #11
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Yes Tom but then there would no ammo to load.
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Old February 25, 2008, 06:10 PM   #12
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Many years ago I was standing in a favorite gun shop as the salesman was writing up my purchase of a very cute little Astra 25 auto.Why was I buying it? I already told you: It was cute! Really cute little thing! A guy standing next to me commented “You’d better not ever shoot anyone with that!” Ok, so I’ll bite: I asked him why. He said “It might make them mad at you!” I’m not sure what a 25 could possibly be good for. I think the suggestion of a little 22 rimfire would certainly be a better buy. It would be super cheap to shoot. And if, sometime (hopefully never) you had to shoot in SD, maybe it would do better than just make the perp mad!
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Old February 25, 2008, 06:27 PM   #13
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Assuming you've already got the .25, you will find the Lee dies best, I think, as already stated. Hornady bullet #4535 is a .251" 50 grain JRN.

In QuickLOAD, with .905" COL, the above mentioned 1.7 grains of Unique is a true maximum load of 17,000 PSI. The Bullseye load is closer to 15,000 PSI. Neither powder is able to burn efficiently in the short barrels typical of the .25 ACP. Vihtavuori N310, at 1.0 grains, does best on burn and velocity. 0.85 grains of Hodgdon Clays is another candidate, though it will be harder to meter than the VV product. The concern for burn is the short barrel. Powders that exit with poor burn completion will likely produce very high velocity extreme spread in a short barrel.

I would suggest, whatever powder you choose, that you look at making a dipper by soldering a wire into the extractor groove of a fired .25 ACP case. Add a drop of epoxy cement to the bottom of the case to fill the flashhole and round out the bottom. Then file down or use a Dremel tool and cutoff wheel to trim it until it can be used to measure and throw the charge you choose. Test it by throwing 10 charges onto a scale and dividing the result by 10. That will get you a more reliable average and will let you resolve hundredths of a grain. Use careful dipping and leveling technique and I think this will go faster than weighing. It should be possible to dump straight into the Lee powder-through die without a funnel.

The 35 grain Hornady XTP may be a better candidate for defense loads. It allows the use of 1.5 grains of VV N310 to be used, and reaches almost 900 fps from a 1.875" barrel, delivering 60 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. The rimfire .22's would have real trouble matching that load in any compact barrel.

It seems to me James Bond had a compact .25 Beretta in the early books, and not the little Jet they made later. A longer barrel and sight radius than the tiny .25's have would help, both for accuracy and velocity and terminal performance. If you take the Unique load mentioned before and give it a 4" barrel to burn in, you get that 50 grain Hornady going almost 1000 fps and nearly 100 ft-lbs of energy.
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Old February 26, 2008, 02:11 AM   #14
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.22 Rimfire vs. .25 ACP for defense

Tom234 and imahotshot - -
It is easy to suppose that the .22 LR cartridge, especially in the high speed versions is a LOT more powerful than the .25 ACP. I used to think so too. And it is true IF you don't require a small pocket pistol.

The Remington website indicates that the .25 ACP does 760 fps from a two-inch barrel, with 64 foot pounds energy.

The Winchester site shows five different 40 gr. .22 LR loads in a 6-inch barrel running from 870 fps with 67 fpe on up to 1105 fps and 108 fpe. I'm sorry I can't find my chronograph records with all my tabulated data. I do recall that the velocity drop from a Browning Buckmark 5½” to a S&W Kit Gun 2” is very significant – well over 100 fps.

If the .22 LR 40 gr. and the .25 ACP 50 gr. run at even approximately the same velocity, the .25 is a bit more powerful. I won't pretend the difference is very important, nor is the .03” change in diameter. I DO believe it significant, though, that the slick little full metal jacket bullet of the .25 ACP is dead solid reliable in feeding in the miniature pocket pistols. The longer .22 LR cartridge with its soft lead bullet simply does not feed well in small pistols. Ask anyone who tried to make the ill-fated S&W Model 61 work reliably. Astra and Bernardelli DID make some pocket pistols chambered in .22 SHORT that were pretty reliable, but their power is sadly lacking. If you go up in size to something like the Colt Woodsman, Ruger Standard, Browning Buckmark, and several other full size pistols, the reliability of feeding increases exponentially.

Another facet to this comparison: Rimfire ammunition misfires much more often than center fire cartridges. Some years back, Walther offered their beautiful little TPH pistol in both .22 LR and .25 ACP. If one could afford to own both, he could plink and practice with the inexpensive .22, when the occasional stoppage or misfire didn't matter. The .25 could then be carried for personal defense.

I realize this is getting a little off track from the feasibility of handloading the .25, but I really wanted to comment on the comparison with the .22 RF.

Best,
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Old February 26, 2008, 01:40 PM   #15
tom234
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I'd have to say the smallest pistol I'd carry is a .380; the Kel Tec P3AT works for me. Better than throwing rocks..

Last edited by tom234; February 26, 2008 at 01:48 PM. Reason: delete
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Old February 26, 2008, 06:13 PM   #16
lcberlin
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Thank you all for your time in reading and responding. After checking into this some more, start up costs would outweigh any savings I thought I might get. I have also found a few web stores selling .25acp for less than $10/box. So I am just going to stock up while I can.

And yes, I carry the Beretta 950BS as the "only" gun at times. I do not intend to get into a gun fight with it, nor do I intend to shoot somebody more than arm's length away from me with this pistol. It's primary purpose is to make an offending person stop what it is they are doing, at an up close and personal distance.

My other carry is a Polish P-64 in 9x18mm Makarov, for when I think I might have a need for greater fire power.

Thanks again, y'all!
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