Time to Raise the Bar at TFL - Page 3

rcwpop · January 27, 2006, 12:28 AM

Absolutely great, it is needed. I'm new to TFL but have enjoyed it a great deal. I have however read some posts that were not well thought out or typed. Thanks for being commited to the cause.

Keep up the good work.....

Backstrap

hivel37 · January 27, 2006, 12:29 AM

Well done, Rich.

Equally irritating are threads that plow the same ground a kazillion times.
Well, maybe thousands of times.

yorec · January 27, 2006, 01:42 AM

Amen Rich...

Yeh Hivel37 - they may be irritating to some, but what happens when there is actually a new developement having to do with such subjects? Or a new member who has an original take? Ya delete/ban such repeat threads and you miss out on any worthwhile additions or changes that may crop up...

But spelling with numbers? No redeaming features.

choochboost · January 27, 2006, 02:11 AM

To add to yorec's comments responding to hivel37, repetitive threads are part of life on the forums. They actually have value in educating new members and keep sites like TFL running and growing. Of course all these things have been discussed before but if someone's asking, then we can do them a favor and answer their question. How many original threads could there possibly be? I think the only exception might be threads regarding brand new products. King Solomon said there's nothing new under the sun, and I think he was right.

Glock 31 · January 27, 2006, 02:41 AM

As staff says, so shall the members follow.

I was getting tired of that stuff myself.

Wildalaska · January 27, 2006, 02:46 AM

So ya want me to use the space bar huh?

----- ____Wilddoesitmatterwhereiputthespaces?Alaska

Nyah ha ha

Garand Guy · January 27, 2006, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Every time wildalaska fails to use the space bar in the last line of his posts, he must donate a customized hi-power for a random drawing of TFL members who made this suggestion.
All in favor?

Aye!

XavierBreath · January 27, 2006, 06:40 AM

Quote:

repetitive threads are part of life on the forums

Not only that, but you can read your own responses from two years back and see how much you have learned. I do, and have.

American4guns · January 27, 2006, 07:27 AM

aye! Rich posted a spell check link in his opening post.I downloaded it.I know i'm close to purfuct but,once in awhile i need a spell check.
iespell.com werksforme

stevelyn · January 27, 2006, 07:46 AM

Thank you Rich. Trying to decipher e-gibberish newspeak gives me a headache. So does reading posts from the grammatically challenged products of the modern public schrool system.

buzz_knox · January 27, 2006, 08:16 AM

Rich, thank you. The only sad thing is that there had to be a policy to deal with this issue.

American4guns · January 27, 2006, 08:24 AM

Rich Lucibella for president!!

hivel37 · January 27, 2006, 08:42 AM

yorec and choochboost,
I see your point on repetitive threads. Upon reflection, I remember things I've learned by reading the same-old same-old. There's always new insight. What's old stuff to one shooter may be a bright kernel of new knowledge to another.

DasBoot · January 27, 2006, 08:52 AM

THANK GOD!!!!!

FINALLY, someone is taking some type of stand on this matter!!!!

Only last week I was going to post a thread on this exact same topic!
I didn't because it would not be gun related.
The general demise of proper spelling/grammar/punctuation is rampant throughout this country.
At work, in the press, signage, etc.
It's UNBELIEVABLE how many Americans cannot consruct a simple sentence.

AND I'M NOT TALKING DOCTORATE LEVEL PROSE HERE!!
Granted, there are those with limited education who cannot be expected to write above a certain level, but the majority of what I see is just plain laziness!
Both on the part of the writer, and, more alarmingly, ON THE PART OF SCHOOL SYSTEMS THAT WILL NOT INSIST ON MAINTAINING WRITTING STANDARDS!!

I know I'm ranting, but this is something that has bothered, annoyed and saddened me for many years.
As a little boy, I remember leafing through the dictionary, looking at the pictures and trying to pronounce the "big" words.
A good portion of them have remained with me.
And it was/is fun using a multi-syllabic word in place of a simplistic, yet adequate, one.
Not just to be pretentious, but to better express yourself.
And what is the image you would like to portray to others?
If, through the course of your day, you come upon an unfamiliar word/term/expression,look it up in the dictionary.
Or write it down and look it up later.
Than USE THE WORD WHEN YOU CAN!
To posters, when you finish a thread, GO BACK AN PROOF READ IT!!
That's what the EDIT option is for.
WADAYAGONNADOO???

Again, much thanks for addressing this issue!
I didn thinc anybudy els kared!

TimRB · January 27, 2006, 09:17 AM

"To posters, when you finish a thread, GO BACK AN PROOF READ IT!! "

Boot, you're *killing* me.

Tim

tjhands · January 27, 2006, 09:23 AM

*snicker, snicker* at DasBoot!

You misspelled "writing."
You used "than" instead of, "then."
You forgot the "d" on the word "and."

Let's all go for a dip in the pool of irony!

Just kidding you. It's FRIDAY!

Number 6 · January 27, 2006, 09:25 AM

This country's standards for spelling, grammar and the concise, correct expression of rational thought started its rapid descent when schools stopped teaching phonetics.

It used to be that, having duly learned "root words," suffixes and prefixes, one could deduce the meaning of a new word. Add in the use of context for clues, and one could do so with a fair degree of accuracy. The absorption of new ideas then proceeded apace.

But that was at least 30 and probably 40 years ago. The proliferation of text messaging, PMs and "L33T" as a substitute for coherent thought, the ignorant who think any word can be pluralized by adding 's and that quotation marks are used for emphasis is the result.

Add to this accelerating decline of standards those too ignorant to distinguish between lose and loose; there, their and they're; where, were and we're; or even then and than. :barf:

Thank heaven that someone, somewhere, is actually requiring a minimal degree of competence to keep this board, at least, from becoming overrun by the above and dragged down to the gutter of the Lowest Common Denominator.

mtnbkr · January 27, 2006, 09:30 AM

I'm all for it.

We're generally discussing fairly technical concepts (legal and engineering related). We NEED to be able to communicate clearly in order to get our point across.

Chris

BrokenPaw · January 27, 2006, 09:45 AM

While I agree that there's been rather too much slack language and grammar on the board of late, and while I agree that it's Rich's prerogative to set whatever standards he likes, and (further) while I try to be very careful about my own spelling, diction, and grammar, I feel compelled to point out:

Just about everyone who has come out in support of this new policy sounds very much like an old codger chasing a bunch of urchins off his lawn, and then going back inside muttering about the danged kidsh theshe daysh, and continuing to write a vitriolic letter to the local paper excoriating the younger generation for its lack of moral backbone and character.

-BP, loading up his linguistic shotgun with rhetorical rocksalt

TimRB · January 27, 2006, 10:00 AM

"Just about everyone who has come out in support of this new policy sounds very much like an old codger chasing a bunch of urchins off his lawn..."

First, what's wrong with that?

Second, I don't think that's the point at all. The administrators have selected standard English as the language for this forum. They ask that all posters use it as best they can, simply as a courtesy to other readers. Simple.

Tim

ThirdShiftRich · January 27, 2006, 10:12 AM

I wish every internet forums had this policy. I'm a member of another board that basically issues one warning and then bans the user. Its especially effective because the board is an invite-only closed registration forum.

BrokenPaw · January 27, 2006, 10:40 AM

TimRB,

I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. I was merely pointing out that the querulous nature of the posts was amusing to me, especially in light of the fact that much of what we do and take for granted probably would seem crass and uncouth to people from earlier generations.

There is no subtext here. I don't write subtexts.

-BP

Wild Bill Bucks · January 27, 2006, 11:26 AM

Rich,

I came to your house, to learn about ideas that other people have, as well as to help some of the younger people that possibly haven't made the mistakes you and I have made.
I would hope they will learn and appreciate my input, as I try to be as truthful about a topic as I can (outside the occasional Smart-Butt post, that is done purely in jest)
There are a lot of young hunters and inexperienced people on the forum who can learn from some of us who have hunted all of our lives.
Sometimes I tend to make my posts a little to Looonnnngggg, but I am
sincere in what I am giving out for information, so that it may help someone else. If my lengthy posts bothers anyone, I apologize, but they are done to give as much detail to someone who may not have heard it before.
I'm sure that you guys who have been here for years have seen a lot of the same subjects being hashed around, but this is the first time I have seen them as well as many others.
Please be patient with us, as none of us get to old to learn new things.

I agree that a certain amount of intelligence should be applied when you post, and I don't think it should bother anyone to double check his post before posting. You may not catch all the errors,but you just might learn a little spelling by going back and checking.

Al Norris · January 27, 2006, 11:32 AM

For what it's worth, my nickel:

Writing is more about communicating effectively, your ideas and thoughts, to another person, than it is just about speaking your mind. Unlike the spoken word, where tonal inflection and other non-verbal body language impart much of the message, the written word has none of these clues.

How you manage your words, tells the world a lot about you. How you write them down reveals even more.

None of us needs to be a professor of English in order to write well. We do however have to stop being the lazy, knuckle-dragging Neanderthal that many people seem to think we gunnies are.

For me, it doesn't mean I'll whack every post that contains spelling errors, misplaced apostrophes, inappropriate use of "s" (to denote plural or possessive) or other grammatical abuses.

The Lord knows I make enough of those kinds of mistakes myself. I've even taken to "old-fart speak," on occassion, to make a point. Nothing wrong there. Such literary devices, used to communicate an idea, are welcome.

For folks who post here, wherein English is not their native language, it won't single them out. I think it safe to say that we can all recognize that and allow for much greater latitude. Too, as has been pointed out, some of these folk write better than the natives! (A lesson here?)

Yet, how many times have we come across a post wherein the poster hasn't separated paragraphs? No punctuation between sentences or doesn't even capitalize to denote a new sentence? I tend to skip over those posts that are difficult to read, because the poster is too lazy to put their thoughts in order. The poster of such, may very well have something really good to say, but it will be lost. Not just to me, but to many (if not most) who are reading the thread.

I guess, that in the end, The Firing Line is not a kiddee board. It is an adult discussion forum filled with adult material, and we would expect everyone to write in a manner befitting the goals of TFL: "a virtual community dedicated to the discussion and advancement of responsible firearms ownership." How responsible do we look to everyone else (and there are many people who come here, just to see what we are about!) when we cannot or will not take the time to communicate effectively?

Christian 812 · January 27, 2006, 11:34 AM

As a Belgian French speaking TFL member ... I'm a bit anxious about these measures ! I try to use my best English, check my Harrap's very often and re-read my post before hiting "submit".

So I would prefer to receive an answer from a TFL administrator asking me > "Christian 812, what do you exactly mean ?" than see my post deleted !!

It happen many times that I find difficult to read posts since they take over my English knowledge ... and I'm learning every day. My daily check on this forum is a great English course for me.

Please, I don't expect a "grading" or congrats but well trying to say that we are a few foreigners doing our best to be understood !

January 27, 2006, 12:28 AM	#51
rcwpop Member Join Date: January 17, 2006 Location: Shenandoah Valley of Virginia Posts: 34	Upping the standards Absolutely great, it is needed. I'm new to TFL but have enjoyed it a great deal. I have however read some posts that were not well thought out or typed. Thanks for being commited to the cause. Keep up the good work..... Backstrap

January 27, 2006, 01:42 AM	#53
yorec Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 2,328	Amen Rich... Yeh Hivel37 - they may be irritating to some, but what happens when there is actually a new developement having to do with such subjects? Or a new member who has an original take? Ya delete/ban such repeat threads and you miss out on any worthwhile additions or changes that may crop up... But spelling with numbers? No redeaming features. __________________ What part of "... shall not be infringed..." don't you understand?

January 27, 2006, 07:46 AM	#60
stevelyn Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: Fairbanksan in exile to Aleutian Hell Posts: 2,655	Thank you Rich. Trying to decipher e-gibberish newspeak gives me a headache. So does reading posts from the grammatically challenged products of the modern public schrool system. __________________ Stop Allowing Our Schools To Be Soft Targets! http://fastersaveslives.org/ East Moose. Wear Wolf.

January 27, 2006, 09:23 AM	#66
tjhands Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2005 Posts: 1,718	snicker, snicker at DasBoot! You misspelled "writing." You used "than" instead of, "then." You forgot the "d" on the word "and." Let's all go for a dip in the pool of irony! Just kidding you. It's FRIDAY! __________________ "If the sole purpose of handguns is to kill people, then mine are all defective." - Uncle Ted Nugent

January 27, 2006, 09:25 AM	#67
Number 6 Junior member Join Date: October 3, 2002 Posts: 919	One word: Phonetics This country's standards for spelling, grammar and the concise, correct expression of rational thought started its rapid descent when schools stopped teaching phonetics. It used to be that, having duly learned "root words," suffixes and prefixes, one could deduce the meaning of a new word. Add in the use of context for clues, and one could do so with a fair degree of accuracy. The absorption of new ideas then proceeded apace. But that was at least 30 and probably 40 years ago. The proliferation of text messaging, PMs and "L33T" as a substitute for coherent thought, the ignorant who think any word can be pluralized by adding 's and that quotation marks are used for emphasis is the result. Add to this accelerating decline of standards those too ignorant to distinguish between lose and loose; there, their and they're; where, were and we're; or even then and than. :barf: Thank heaven that someone, somewhere, is actually requiring a minimal degree of competence to keep this board, at least, from becoming overrun by the above and dragged down to the gutter of the Lowest Common Denominator.

January 27, 2006, 12:29 AM	#52
hivel37 Senior Member Join Date: August 24, 2004 Location: Hill Country Posts: 522	Well done, Rich. Equally irritating are threads that plow the same ground a kazillion times. Well, maybe thousands of times.

January 27, 2006, 02:11 AM	#54
choochboost Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2005 Location: orange county, ca Posts: 610	To add to yorec's comments responding to hivel37, repetitive threads are part of life on the forums. They actually have value in educating new members and keep sites like TFL running and growing. Of course all these things have been discussed before but if someone's asking, then we can do them a favor and answer their question. How many original threads could there possibly be? I think the only exception might be threads regarding brand new products. King Solomon said there's nothing new under the sun, and I think he was right.

January 27, 2006, 02:41 AM	#55
Glock 31 Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 2005 Posts: 541	As staff says, so shall the members follow. I was getting tired of that stuff myself.

January 27, 2006, 02:46 AM	#56
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	So ya want me to use the space bar huh? ----- ____Wilddoesitmatterwhereiputthespaces?Alaska Nyah ha ha

January 27, 2006, 07:27 AM	#59
American4guns Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2005 Location: PA Posts: 122	aye! Rich posted a spell check link in his opening post.I downloaded it.I know i'm close to purfuct but,once in awhile i need a spell check. iespell.com werksforme

January 27, 2006, 08:16 AM	#61
buzz_knox Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 1999 Location: Knoxville, in the Free State of Tennesse Posts: 4,190	Rich, thank you. The only sad thing is that there had to be a policy to deal with this issue.

January 27, 2006, 08:24 AM	#62
American4guns Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2005 Location: PA Posts: 122	Rich Lucibella for president!!

January 27, 2006, 08:42 AM	#63
hivel37 Senior Member Join Date: August 24, 2004 Location: Hill Country Posts: 522	yorec and choochboost, I see your point on repetitive threads. Upon reflection, I remember things I've learned by reading the same-old same-old. There's always new insight. What's old stuff to one shooter may be a bright kernel of new knowledge to another.

January 27, 2006, 08:52 AM	#64
DasBoot Junior member Join Date: October 18, 2005 Location: South Florida Posts: 700	THANK GOD!!!!! FINALLY, someone is taking some type of stand on this matter!!!! Only last week I was going to post a thread on this exact same topic! I didn't because it would not be gun related. The general demise of proper spelling/grammar/punctuation is rampant throughout this country. At work, in the press, signage, etc. It's UNBELIEVABLE how many Americans cannot consruct a simple sentence. AND I'M NOT TALKING DOCTORATE LEVEL PROSE HERE!! Granted, there are those with limited education who cannot be expected to write above a certain level, but the majority of what I see is just plain laziness! Both on the part of the writer, and, more alarmingly, ON THE PART OF SCHOOL SYSTEMS THAT WILL NOT INSIST ON MAINTAINING WRITTING STANDARDS!! I know I'm ranting, but this is something that has bothered, annoyed and saddened me for many years. As a little boy, I remember leafing through the dictionary, looking at the pictures and trying to pronounce the "big" words. A good portion of them have remained with me. And it was/is fun using a multi-syllabic word in place of a simplistic, yet adequate, one. Not just to be pretentious, but to better express yourself. And what is the image you would like to portray to others? If, through the course of your day, you come upon an unfamiliar word/term/expression,look it up in the dictionary. Or write it down and look it up later. Than USE THE WORD WHEN YOU CAN! To posters, when you finish a thread, GO BACK AN PROOF READ IT!! That's what the EDIT option is for. WADAYAGONNADOO??? Again, much thanks for addressing this issue! I didn thinc anybudy els kared!

January 27, 2006, 09:17 AM	#65
TimRB Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 1,049	"To posters, when you finish a thread, GO BACK AN PROOF READ IT!! " Boot, you're killing me. Tim

January 27, 2006, 09:30 AM	#68
mtnbkr Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2000 Location: Manassas, Virginia Posts: 914	I'm all for it. We're generally discussing fairly technical concepts (legal and engineering related). We NEED to be able to communicate clearly in order to get our point across. Chris

January 27, 2006, 09:45 AM	#69
BrokenPaw Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2002 Location: Manassas, Virginia Posts: 101	While I agree that there's been rather too much slack language and grammar on the board of late, and while I agree that it's Rich's prerogative to set whatever standards he likes, and (further) while I try to be very careful about my own spelling, diction, and grammar, I feel compelled to point out: Just about everyone who has come out in support of this new policy sounds very much like an old codger chasing a bunch of urchins off his lawn, and then going back inside muttering about the danged kidsh theshe daysh, and continuing to write a vitriolic letter to the local paper excoriating the younger generation for its lack of moral backbone and character. -BP, loading up his linguistic shotgun with rhetorical rocksalt __________________ Seek out wisdom in books, rare manuscripts, and cryptic poems if you will, but seek it also in simple stones and fragile herbs and in the cries of wild birds. Listen to the whisperings of the wind and the roar of water if you would discover magic, for it is here that the old secrets are still preserved. - Ardaynes #38

January 27, 2006, 10:00 AM	#70
TimRB Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 1,049	"Just about everyone who has come out in support of this new policy sounds very much like an old codger chasing a bunch of urchins off his lawn..." First, what's wrong with that? Second, I don't think that's the point at all. The administrators have selected standard English as the language for this forum. They ask that all posters use it as best they can, simply as a courtesy to other readers. Simple. Tim

January 27, 2006, 10:12 AM	#71
ThirdShiftRich Junior Member Join Date: January 27, 2006 Posts: 2	I wish every internet forums had this policy. I'm a member of another board that basically issues one warning and then bans the user. Its especially effective because the board is an invite-only closed registration forum.

January 27, 2006, 10:40 AM	#72
BrokenPaw Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2002 Location: Manassas, Virginia Posts: 101	TimRB, I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. I was merely pointing out that the querulous nature of the posts was amusing to me, especially in light of the fact that much of what we do and take for granted probably would seem crass and uncouth to people from earlier generations. There is no subtext here. I don't write subtexts. -BP __________________ Seek out wisdom in books, rare manuscripts, and cryptic poems if you will, but seek it also in simple stones and fragile herbs and in the cries of wild birds. Listen to the whisperings of the wind and the roar of water if you would discover magic, for it is here that the old secrets are still preserved. - Ardaynes #38

January 27, 2006, 11:26 AM	#73
Wild Bill Bucks Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2005 Location: Southeastern Oklahoma, Next door to Sasquatch Posts: 1,266	Rich, I came to your house, to learn about ideas that other people have, as well as to help some of the younger people that possibly haven't made the mistakes you and I have made. I would hope they will learn and appreciate my input, as I try to be as truthful about a topic as I can (outside the occasional Smart-Butt post, that is done purely in jest) There are a lot of young hunters and inexperienced people on the forum who can learn from some of us who have hunted all of our lives. Sometimes I tend to make my posts a little to Looonnnngggg, but I am sincere in what I am giving out for information, so that it may help someone else. If my lengthy posts bothers anyone, I apologize, but they are done to give as much detail to someone who may not have heard it before. I'm sure that you guys who have been here for years have seen a lot of the same subjects being hashed around, but this is the first time I have seen them as well as many others. Please be patient with us, as none of us get to old to learn new things. I agree that a certain amount of intelligence should be applied when you post, and I don't think it should bother anyone to double check his post before posting. You may not catch all the errors,but you just might learn a little spelling by going back and checking.

January 27, 2006, 11:32 AM	#74
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	For what it's worth, my nickel: Writing is more about communicating effectively, your ideas and thoughts, to another person, than it is just about speaking your mind. Unlike the spoken word, where tonal inflection and other non-verbal body language impart much of the message, the written word has none of these clues. How you manage your words, tells the world a lot about you. How you write them down reveals even more. None of us needs to be a professor of English in order to write well. We do however have to stop being the lazy, knuckle-dragging Neanderthal that many people seem to think we gunnies are. For me, it doesn't mean I'll whack every post that contains spelling errors, misplaced apostrophes, inappropriate use of "s" (to denote plural or possessive) or other grammatical abuses. The Lord knows I make enough of those kinds of mistakes myself. I've even taken to "old-fart speak," on occassion, to make a point. Nothing wrong there. Such literary devices, used to communicate an idea, are welcome. For folks who post here, wherein English is not their native language, it won't single them out. I think it safe to say that we can all recognize that and allow for much greater latitude. Too, as has been pointed out, some of these folk write better than the natives! (A lesson here?) Yet, how many times have we come across a post wherein the poster hasn't separated paragraphs? No punctuation between sentences or doesn't even capitalize to denote a new sentence? I tend to skip over those posts that are difficult to read, because the poster is too lazy to put their thoughts in order. The poster of such, may very well have something really good to say, but it will be lost. Not just to me, but to many (if not most) who are reading the thread. I guess, that in the end, The Firing Line is not a kiddee board. It is an adult discussion forum filled with adult material, and we would expect everyone to write in a manner befitting the goals of TFL: "a virtual community dedicated to the discussion and advancement of responsible firearms ownership." How responsible do we look to everyone else (and there are many people who come here, just to see what we are about!) when we cannot or will not take the time to communicate effectively?

January 27, 2006, 11:34 AM	#75
Christian 812 Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 319	As a Belgian French speaking TFL member ... I'm a bit anxious about these measures ! I try to use my best English, check my Harrap's very often and re-read my post before hiting "submit". So I would prefer to receive an answer from a TFL administrator asking me > "Christian 812, what do you exactly mean ?" than see my post deleted !! It happen many times that I find difficult to read posts since they take over my English knowledge ... and I'm learning every day. My daily check on this forum is a great English course for me. Please, I don't expect a "grading" or congrats but well trying to say that we are a few foreigners doing our best to be understood !