What bullets do you use for personal defense? - Page 2

WESHOOT2 · January 8, 2014, 04:45 PM

I normally use a Remington 115g S-JHP in .355" bores.
I use a Hornady 140g XTP-HP in 38 Special.
I use whatever 125g JHP I grab off my shelves in 357 Magnum.
I use a Nosler 135g JHP in 40 S&W and 400 CorBon.
I use any old bullet (normally a 240g LSWC) in 44 Magnum.
I use a non-bonded Remington 230g Golden Saber in 45 ACP.

In my favorite, the 41 Action Express, I load 180g Speer Gold Dots.

My always and its back-up are 22LR: I currently use W-W Super-X 40g LRN.

Chili Palmer · January 8, 2014, 05:34 PM

Hopefully none!

I'm happy with Gold Dot. I am not picky. I guess I should be but every top dollar HP I've tested fired fine, expanded great so I have never been like 'oh yeah this is the one'.

armsmaster270 · January 9, 2014, 03:35 AM

Speer Gold Dot, Winchester Ranger, Winchester Ranger +P+ and Federal 110gr +P+ JHP

mete · January 9, 2014, 12:09 PM

Copper tougher than lead ? Yes but the real reason for the lighter Barnes bullets is that copper is much lighter than lead .So barnes were weighing the same of the lead ones it would have to be much longer which means feeding problems and poor accuracy [needs more twist].

Flying ash trays ? Doesn't make sense .I think the original was called by some a flying coffee or tea cup. The 45 had a 1/4" hole compared to their earlier 1/16" hole. The original also had the jacket scored 12 times IIRC. It would open on anything ! Wouldn't penetrate a 'chuck hit in the shoulder area ! Then they gave up the scoring version.
So it was ; RN , RNHP 1/16", RN 1/4" scored, RN unscored 1/4" !!
The first two were worthless, the second two actually expanded on chucks .All my tests done on chucks [Marmota Monax ]

rclark · January 9, 2014, 01:08 PM

Haven't bought factory (except .22) for 30 years....

240g SWC for the .44 Spec (CC in town).
255g SWC for the .45 Colt (Woods).

And of course, whatever is in the gun at the time will also work in a pinch. For example, I mostly shoot 250g RNFP is my .45s ....

Mike / Tx · January 10, 2014, 05:45 AM

I really DO like the Barnes but for the price and only getting 20 or so per box they are a little less desirable. I like to test, test, and retest, and at their cost, that simply isn't plausible for my budget.

I also am a huge fan of the Speer Gold Dot and have been since they hit the market. I have shot thousands of them in several calibers and know how they work and at what velocities they work the best from my revolvers and semi's. I have used them almost exclusively in my 10mm for hunting feral hogs and have not been let down by them yet. The 180gr leaving the muzzle of my 7" barrel at just north of 1350 will reliably drop a 200# hog out to 50yds with almost boring regularity I figure they will work on just about anything else I am likely to encounter.

For my ACP I also like the GD, as well as some of the Taurus 185gr loads I picked up a few years back loaded with the Barnes bullet. Those are some pretty impressive critters but they don't come cheap.

As such when I picked up my MP 452 200 mold my main purpose was to work on the alloy and the loads to duplicate the factory load performance I have gotten in the past. When I found the proper alloy I think I will simply stick with these from now on out. They are running in the mid 800's and have produced reliable expansion time and time again. I haven't had the time to put them to task on the hogs we chase, but just from testing them against the GD and a couple of others I doubt seriously they will perform any bit less than what I have already seen form the factory fodder.

Sarge · January 10, 2014, 10:25 AM

Send me about a thousand of those and I'll test them for you, Mike. Since you're a Texas boy, I'll waive my usual bullet-testing fees

Seriously, that is a fine bullet and your casting is top-notch.

Marco Califo · January 11, 2014, 02:35 PM

There is some amount of legal liability with the maker.
If I load it and someone dies, or even worse, doesn't, I am liable for velocity, muzzle energy, choosing expanding projectiles, choosing NON-expanding projectiles,etc. Someone has been sued for it before and lost.
If I use factory loads, at least some of that liability rests with the factory, their lawyers, and insurance companies.
Cost savings of handloading are outweighed by risk sharing.

Garycw · January 11, 2014, 03:04 PM

I had been using the Hornady critical defense , but switching to the XTP-HP. After seeing some comparison testing.

ParabellumJ · January 11, 2014, 03:08 PM

Gold dots

filthy phil · January 15, 2014, 12:17 PM

Just got some more t series. Got a fair stash now

mikld · January 15, 2014, 12:41 PM

My 2" .38 has a cylinder full of 150 gr. DEWC over a stiff load of W231. My 1911 uses 200 gr. LSWC over a medium/stiff load of Unique.

I'm not a "factory ammo only for SD" thinker...

Panfisher · January 15, 2014, 04:43 PM

If I had to shoot someone with a factory load around my house it will have to be either .22 LR or .22 WMR, or bird shot from a shotgun, if they were willing to wait a while I might be able to dig up a partial box of WWB. Otherwise in my AR it would be a 50 gr. HP (soon to be changed over to a 55 grain HP as it like them better), in .45 ACP if would be a 230 gr. Ranier HP, in .357 it would be a low/medium loaded 125 gr. XTP/HP.

WESHOOT2 · January 15, 2014, 04:58 PM

The Rainier HPs (minor exception, the 124g HEX HP) are not considered ideal for shooting people.
They are, however, better than a rock

mnoirot64 · January 15, 2014, 05:21 PM

I will stick with my hand loaded Barnes TAC-XP in one of my 1911s.

Real Gun · January 16, 2014, 07:36 AM

Quote:

My 2" .38 has a cylinder full of 150 gr. DEWC over a stiff load of W231. My 1911 uses 200 gr. LSWC over a medium/stiff load of Unique.

I'm not a "factory ammo only for SD" thinker...

No one would agree to get shot with them but do you really think of those as "defensive rounds" or just the best you can offer?

David Bachelder · January 16, 2014, 08:41 AM

Most of the time a 9mm 125 grain round nose.

Sometimes a .40 Hollowpoint.
Sometimes a .45 Roundnose.
All are self cast and handloads.

Depends on the color of my socks ......

Panfisher · January 16, 2014, 08:58 AM

You won't ever hear me say that a cheap Ranier HP is a great defensive bullet. It is however what I use because I had a good supply of them, a bunch of ammo loaded with them, and a Kimber .45 ACP that likes them and shoots them to point of aim. Its big, seems pretty soft and expands pretty well from my shooting into wet catalogs etc, plus did I mention its pretty much what I have except for some 200 grain lead SWC's that are light loaded, which would still be much better than a rock.

mikld · January 16, 2014, 01:08 PM

Quote:

No one would agree to get shot with them but do you really think of those as "defensive rounds" or just the best you can offer?

My .38 is my "house gun". The load is "designed" as an 850 fps, full caliber flat point that will cause lots of tissue disruption and shock, and little over penetration. The same applies to the 45 ACP, large flat fronted bullet traveling at a moderate speed imparts lots of tissue damage without danger to the neighbors. I have shot quite a few of these reloads and am used to, and comfortable with them and I can usually hit what I point at. My research in gel testing (not mine, but published results) tells me these thoughts are on the right track. Nope, I haven't shot anybody with them, and I haven't shot any cadavers to test the rounds, I just use my own common sense putting the rounds together...

BTW, I can "offer" 250 gr. .44 caliber wadcutter, "anti-personnel" bullet, running at slightly over 1,000 fps, or 168 grain soft points in my M1, or 250 gr. LSWC at about 1250 fps outta my Ruger SBH, but they are hardly self defense rounds to be used in or around a normal residence.

BTW, if you think I'm too concerned with neighbor's safety, I'll relate something that happened to me. I was working on a .44 Magnum lever action with mid loads of Blue Dot and a 250 gr. lead bullet. I had a major OOPS!, a negligent discharge (the rifle fired a round), totally my fault, not thinking. The bullet went through a 3/4" plywood wall, through a thickness of aluminum siding, another 1/2" of plywood, one thickness of dry wall, one interior door, 2, 1/8" wall panels, 2, 1/2'" wood pieces of a decorative screen, another 2 thicknesses of dry wall, one 1/8" wall panel and a 2x2 pine stiffener. Nearly the entire length of a double wide mobile home, through several walls. My neighbors are approximately 20-30 yards away and had the bullet been fired at an intruder in my home and penetrated through and through (or God forbid a miss), it would prolly continue and enter the neighbor's home. There's no way I'd shoot my .223/5.56 or M1 at an intruder...

I shoot these rounds quite a bit and they are not my "SD" only loads. I have good to excellent accuracy from my .38, and better than I can shoot accuracy from my 1911...

Real Gun · January 16, 2014, 01:26 PM

I think my choice in that situation would be frangible 9mm, my Judge with #4 shot .410, or my .410 Coach Gun with #4 buck shot or even #7 target. I would be leery of what that .38 Special would penetrate, depending on the location and number of walls and other barriers behind the shot.

trixter · January 16, 2014, 04:44 PM

I am really seriously not trying to be a smart aleck here but I will use whatever is in my gun a the time I need it.. Almost all of the time it will be a Lee TL 452-200 SWC. After all it is a 45.

mp40 · January 17, 2014, 09:50 AM

I have nobler 180 gr HP in my 40 pro for home defense but would like to load some xtp horandy but can not be found anywhere

mnoirot64 · January 17, 2014, 10:01 AM

I agree. I will use whatever is in my gun when I need it. However, I plan ahead enough to have my preferred ammunition in it - and right now it is a Barnes TAC-XP.

A pause for the COZ · January 17, 2014, 01:54 PM

Well, Here we go again. I love these threads.

I have multiple fire arms stashed in a few areas around the house. ( no young children around any more)
That way where ever I am in the house I am not more than 10 or 15 feet from arming my self.

12 ga I use 00 Buck.
357 magnum. I use 158gr Winchester Hollow points.
327 magnum - 100 gr XTP's
9mm- XTP's
.380 - XTP's Seeing a trend I like XTP's

45acp I broke with my trend. I use a lyman 452374 hollow point.
This is a monster bullet. These things will absolutely put a juiced up meth head down quick.

As for the reloads for self defense argument. " Hey if I knew today was the day he was coming to invade my home. I would have switched to factory ammo." It would be his fault he got shot with what ever I had in the gun. Not mine.

mnoirot64 · January 17, 2014, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a pause for the coz

As for the reloads for self defense argument. " Hey if I knew today was the day he was coming to invade my home. I would have switched to factory ammo." It would be his fault he got shot with what ever I had in the gun. Not mine.

I'm with you. If I have hand loaded SD ammunition in my gun, that's what I'm going with in a SD situation.

January 8, 2014, 04:45 PM	#26
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	oh, you mean for ME, in MY guns I normally use a Remington 115g S-JHP in .355" bores. I use a Hornady 140g XTP-HP in 38 Special. I use whatever 125g JHP I grab off my shelves in 357 Magnum. I use a Nosler 135g JHP in 40 S&W and 400 CorBon. I use any old bullet (normally a 240g LSWC) in 44 Magnum. I use a non-bonded Remington 230g Golden Saber in 45 ACP. In my favorite, the 41 Action Express, I load 180g Speer Gold Dots. My always and its back-up are 22LR: I currently use W-W Super-X 40g LRN. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

January 9, 2014, 03:35 AM	#28
armsmaster270 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,951	Speer Gold Dot, Winchester Ranger, Winchester Ranger +P+ and Federal 110gr +P+ JHP __________________ http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/f...aster270/Guns/ Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor & Armorer, Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S.

January 9, 2014, 12:09 PM	#29
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	Copper tougher than lead ? Yes but the real reason for the lighter Barnes bullets is that copper is much lighter than lead .So barnes were weighing the same of the lead ones it would have to be much longer which means feeding problems and poor accuracy [needs more twist]. Flying ash trays ? Doesn't make sense .I think the original was called by some a flying coffee or tea cup. The 45 had a 1/4" hole compared to their earlier 1/16" hole. The original also had the jacket scored 12 times IIRC. It would open on anything ! Wouldn't penetrate a 'chuck hit in the shoulder area ! Then they gave up the scoring version. So it was ; RN , RNHP 1/16", RN 1/4" scored, RN unscored 1/4" !! The first two were worthless, the second two actually expanded on chucks .All my tests done on chucks [Marmota Monax ] __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !

January 9, 2014, 01:08 PM	#30
rclark Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Butte, MT Posts: 2,622	Haven't bought factory (except .22) for 30 years.... 240g SWC for the .44 Spec (CC in town). 255g SWC for the .45 Colt (Woods). And of course, whatever is in the gun at the time will also work in a pinch. For example, I mostly shoot 250g RNFP is my .45s .... __________________ A clinger and deplorable, MAGA, and life NRA member. When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Single Action .45 Colt (Sometimes colloquially referred to by its alias as the .45 'Long' Colt or .45LC). Don't leave home without it. That said, the .44Spec is right up their too... but the .45 Colt is still the king. Last edited by rclark; January 9, 2014 at 01:13 PM.

January 10, 2014, 05:45 AM	#31
Mike / Tx Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 2,101	I really DO like the Barnes but for the price and only getting 20 or so per box they are a little less desirable. I like to test, test, and retest, and at their cost, that simply isn't plausible for my budget. I also am a huge fan of the Speer Gold Dot and have been since they hit the market. I have shot thousands of them in several calibers and know how they work and at what velocities they work the best from my revolvers and semi's. I have used them almost exclusively in my 10mm for hunting feral hogs and have not been let down by them yet. The 180gr leaving the muzzle of my 7" barrel at just north of 1350 will reliably drop a 200# hog out to 50yds with almost boring regularity I figure they will work on just about anything else I am likely to encounter. For my ACP I also like the GD, as well as some of the Taurus 185gr loads I picked up a few years back loaded with the Barnes bullet. Those are some pretty impressive critters but they don't come cheap. As such when I picked up my MP 452 200 mold my main purpose was to work on the alloy and the loads to duplicate the factory load performance I have gotten in the past. When I found the proper alloy I think I will simply stick with these from now on out. They are running in the mid 800's and have produced reliable expansion time and time again. I haven't had the time to put them to task on the hogs we chase, but just from testing them against the GD and a couple of others I doubt seriously they will perform any bit less than what I have already seen form the factory fodder. __________________ LAter, Mike / TX

January 8, 2014, 05:34 PM	#27
Chili Palmer Member Join Date: July 15, 2013 Posts: 52	Hopefully none! I'm happy with Gold Dot. I am not picky. I guess I should be but every top dollar HP I've tested fired fine, expanded great so I have never been like 'oh yeah this is the one'.

January 10, 2014, 10:25 AM	#32
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	Send me about a thousand of those and I'll test them for you, Mike. Since you're a Texas boy, I'll waive my usual bullet-testing fees Seriously, that is a fine bullet and your casting is top-notch. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

January 11, 2014, 02:35 PM	#33
Marco Califo Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2011 Location: LA (Greater Los Angeles Area) Posts: 2,598	Legal Liability There is some amount of legal liability with the maker. If I load it and someone dies, or even worse, doesn't, I am liable for velocity, muzzle energy, choosing expanding projectiles, choosing NON-expanding projectiles,etc. Someone has been sued for it before and lost. If I use factory loads, at least some of that liability rests with the factory, their lawyers, and insurance companies. Cost savings of handloading are outweighed by risk sharing. __________________ ............

January 11, 2014, 03:04 PM	#34
Garycw Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2011 Location: Ohio-Kentucky - florida Posts: 1,221	I had been using the Hornady critical defense , but switching to the XTP-HP. After seeing some comparison testing.

January 11, 2014, 03:08 PM	#35
ParabellumJ Member Join Date: January 2, 2013 Posts: 91	Gold dots

January 15, 2014, 12:17 PM	#36
filthy phil Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2013 Location: Tomball Tejas Posts: 105	Just got some more t series. Got a fair stash now __________________ glocks gen4 :21, gen 3 17tb, 19, 30s (×2) , sig tacpac 1911, colt 6920(x2), cia underfolder ak, npap underfolder

January 15, 2014, 12:41 PM	#37
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	My 2" .38 has a cylinder full of 150 gr. DEWC over a stiff load of W231. My 1911 uses 200 gr. LSWC over a medium/stiff load of Unique. I'm not a "factory ammo only for SD" thinker... __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

January 15, 2014, 04:43 PM	#38
Panfisher Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,337	If I had to shoot someone with a factory load around my house it will have to be either .22 LR or .22 WMR, or bird shot from a shotgun, if they were willing to wait a while I might be able to dig up a partial box of WWB. Otherwise in my AR it would be a 50 gr. HP (soon to be changed over to a 55 grain HP as it like them better), in .45 ACP if would be a 230 gr. Ranier HP, in .357 it would be a low/medium loaded 125 gr. XTP/HP.

January 15, 2014, 04:58 PM	#39
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	The Rainier HPs (minor exception, the 124g HEX HP) are not considered ideal for shooting people. They are, however, better than a rock __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

January 15, 2014, 05:21 PM	#40
mnoirot64 Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2013 Location: Clarksville, Tennessee Posts: 365	I will stick with my hand loaded Barnes TAC-XP in one of my 1911s.

January 16, 2014, 08:41 AM	#42
David Bachelder Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2011 Location: Trinity, Texas Posts: 636	Most of the time a 9mm 125 grain round nose. Sometimes a .40 Hollowpoint. Sometimes a .45 Roundnose. All are self cast and handloads. Depends on the color of my socks ...... __________________ David Bachelder Trinity, Texas I load, 9mm Luger, 38 and 40 S&W, 38 Special, 357Magnum, 45ACP, 45 Colt, 223, 300 AAC, 243 and 30-06

January 16, 2014, 08:58 AM	#43
Panfisher Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2010 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,337	You won't ever hear me say that a cheap Ranier HP is a great defensive bullet. It is however what I use because I had a good supply of them, a bunch of ammo loaded with them, and a Kimber .45 ACP that likes them and shoots them to point of aim. Its big, seems pretty soft and expands pretty well from my shooting into wet catalogs etc, plus did I mention its pretty much what I have except for some 200 grain lead SWC's that are light loaded, which would still be much better than a rock.

January 16, 2014, 01:26 PM	#45
Real Gun Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: SC Posts: 2,743	I think my choice in that situation would be frangible 9mm, my Judge with #4 shot .410, or my .410 Coach Gun with #4 buck shot or even #7 target. I would be leery of what that .38 Special would penetrate, depending on the location and number of walls and other barriers behind the shot.

January 16, 2014, 04:44 PM	#46
trixter Member Join Date: February 27, 2011 Location: Where E. Pine St. crosses I-5 Posts: 51	I am really seriously not trying to be a smart aleck here but I will use whatever is in my gun a the time I need it.. Almost all of the time it will be a Lee TL 452-200 SWC. After all it is a 45. Last edited by Spats McGee; January 16, 2014 at 04:49 PM. Reason: Removing profanity

January 17, 2014, 09:50 AM	#47
mp40 Member Join Date: December 1, 2013 Posts: 26	I have nobler 180 gr HP in my 40 pro for home defense but would like to load some xtp horandy but can not be found anywhere

January 17, 2014, 10:01 AM	#48
mnoirot64 Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2013 Location: Clarksville, Tennessee Posts: 365	I agree. I will use whatever is in my gun when I need it. However, I plan ahead enough to have my preferred ammunition in it - and right now it is a Barnes TAC-XP.

January 17, 2014, 01:54 PM	#49
A pause for the COZ Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2012 Location: Braham, Minnesota Posts: 1,314	Well, Here we go again. I love these threads. I have multiple fire arms stashed in a few areas around the house. ( no young children around any more) That way where ever I am in the house I am not more than 10 or 15 feet from arming my self. 12 ga I use 00 Buck. 357 magnum. I use 158gr Winchester Hollow points. 327 magnum - 100 gr XTP's 9mm- XTP's .380 - XTP's Seeing a trend I like XTP's 45acp I broke with my trend. I use a lyman 452374 hollow point. This is a monster bullet. These things will absolutely put a juiced up meth head down quick. As for the reloads for self defense argument. " Hey if I knew today was the day he was coming to invade my home. I would have switched to factory ammo." It would be his fault he got shot with what ever I had in the gun. Not mine. Last edited by A pause for the COZ; January 17, 2014 at 02:00 PM.