Project: Break my P2000

[Greg Bell]

Well, I have spent this last weekend tuning up my speed for the next tournament. I bought a cool PACT timer so I can speed up my transitions.

On Friday, I shot 200 rounds of Monarch. I shot this using the timer and shaved ~.5 off my time from draw to fire 3 shots in the A zone at 21 feet. I still use the same holster as I refuse to give in to the gaming impulse. I want this to be practical training, whether it handicaps me in competition or not. That being said, I might, MIGHT buy a two mag carrier, since I had to draw my 3rd mag from my pocket last time.

Today, I shot 300 rounds of WWB. The drills broke down as follows:

100 rounds with timer 3 shots from draw at 21 feet.
100 rounds with timer 3 shots each in 3 targets at 21 feet.
100 rounds with timer 3 shots each in 2 target 1 at 21 and 1 at 15 yards.

I supplemented all this with a bunch of transition practice with my 22/45 Mark III.

As expected, the P2000 has continued to work without complaint. I think I am going to clean it at the 5000 round mark (I am at about 3500 since the last cleaning).

I haven’t notice any new wear and tear. The mags continue to function. The baseplate issue noted moths ago continues with mag #2, but it is only an issue after the mag has been dropped on concrete. If I simply push the pad forward after I pick it up, I never have an issue. This is an amazing record considering these mags have been dropped on concrete 100s of times.

Again, this gun has never, ever, ever, ever, ever jammed. Which is simply amazing considering the very low quality ammo I have fed it. It has taught me a lot about the silliness of paying extra for premium ammo.

11559 rounds
Mag #2 baseplate is loose. Still functional.
One dead Monarch Steel cased round. Primer dead.
Dropped four times
One deep gouge in the grip from slamming my glove compartment door on it!
3530 rounds since last cleaning (and almost all of it NASTY). Although I did oil the rails before the match (for no good reason)
Sorry about the old pic. I put the wrong card in my camera.

[junkpile]

11559 rounds

Incredible, glad to hear it hasn't jammed yet. I'm also fairly incredulous at how many drops have occurred (4). Deliberate? If so, from how high, and onto what?

[MikeOrick]

Good Luck.

I really like my P2000, and will even if you break yours.

Are your mags hicaps or 10 rounders? Are the base plates the older hard plastic or the newer softer rubber?

FWIW, the P2000s tested by DHS back in 2004 fired 10K rounds of 124/9 +P, 125/357, and 155/40 w/o problems. Those guns were cooled and cleaned every 250 rounds during endurance testing. Points were awarded for longer service intervals on all "consumable" parts, and HK got max scores (>10K rounds).

Another test they passed wwas the plugged bbl test; rounds lodged at different points in bbl and gun fired w/o damage.

SIG and HK were the only guns to pass all the DHS tests in all models and calibers BTW. The Berettas, Glocks, S&Ws and SA XDs failed in one way or another. DHS fired about 3 million rounds through about 300 pistols for those tests.

An HK rep says there are HKs in federal service w over 50K rounds through them, still w the original parts (springs and all). IIRC, the spring/buffer unit on the USPc and P2000 is designed to exceed 20K rounds.

A SIG rep says a P229/357 in federal service has over 100K through it, w just 3 recoil spring changes and a trigger bar.

Locally, some Glock 40s have gone over 20K, while some new Glock 40s cracked the slides and others broke the frame rails under 500 rounds.

Stuff happens. Or not. To everybody. Sooner or later.

[Greg Bell]

Are your mags hicaps or 10 rounders? Are the base plates the older hard plastic or the newer softer rubber?

They are all hicaps.

FWIW, the P2000s tested by DHS back in 2004 fired 10K rounds of 124/9 +P, 125/357, and 155/40 w/o problems. Those guns were cooled and cleaned every 250 rounds during endurance testing. Points were awarded for longer service intervals on all "consumable" parts, and HK got max scores (>10K rounds).

Well, mine ain't +P, but it is steel cased and getting 5k cleaning intervals!!

Another test they passed wwas the plugged bbl test; rounds lodged at different points in bbl and gun fired w/o damage.

I sure as hell ain't doing that!!

[Greg Bell]

Junkpile,

Incredible, glad to hear it hasn't jammed yet. I'm also fairly incredulous at how many drops have occurred (4). Deliberate? If so, from how high, and onto what?

I dropped it while I was practicing weak-handed draws from behind my back. Nerdy, but it might come in handy. Once I perfected my technique I stopped haveing the problem.

[DonR101395]

That being said, I might, MIGHT buy a two mag carrier, since I had to draw my 3rd mag from my pocket last time.

I've always preferred using single mag pouches even when carrying multiple reloads. They conform and wrap around the body better. They just plain feel less bulky.

[DonR101395]

That being said, I might, MIGHT buy a two mag carrier, since I had to draw my 3rd mag from my pocket last time.

I've always preferred using single mag pouches even when carrying multiple reloads. They conform and wrap around the body better. They just plain feel less bulky. Plus it gives you the option of tailoring your loadout from 1 to as many as you want in multiples of one.

[Jason_G]

Greg, has steel cased ammo scratched up you feed ramp or chamber at all? I've always been curious about this, and haven't been brave enought to try it in my guns. Steel is alot cheaper than brass, and with the way ammo prices are going these days, I am really tempted...

Jason

[Greg Bell]

Just kidding. Another 550 rounds down the tubes. I finally got my SIG 556 on Friday, so I didn’t get a chance to shoot the P2000. On Saturday I picked up 550 rounds of ammo. 300 rounds of Blazer, 250 rounds of Monarch. I also shot about ~25 rounds of loose ammo which I did not include.

On Saturday I mainly shot for groups at 30 feet and 25 yards. I was shooting pretty good.

Today I went to the outdoor range, again focusing on the new 556 until late. Then I blasted 300 rounds of ammo, 250 Monarch, 50 Blazer and the aforementioned loose ammo. I practiced with a PACT timer doing the following drills...

1. Draw and fire 3 rounds at 21 feet.
2. Draw and fire 9 rounds, 3 per target.
3. Draw and fire 9 rounds, 2 targets at 21, 1 at 30 feet.
4. Draw and fire 6 rounds, reload and fire 3 rounds.


My times are improving, but still nothing to brag about. I have gotten where I shoot 1 string as fast as I can, 1 string carefully. Who knows.


The P2000 continues without any problem. It is DISGUSTINGLY DIRTY. I plan something special for when I clean it. I certainly plan to take a lot of photos, as this thing is covered in burnt powder, etc.

The Alesi holster and the mags continue to give yeoman service. I have noticed that the other two mags are starting to exhibit the loose baseplate problem. The thing is, I have changed the way I reload my mags, so that I push back on the baseplate as I load.

Still, the mags have gone 12,000 rounds without giving out! Quit a run. And I haven’t seen any evidence that they are going to quit anytime soon.

I have noticed that the trigger seems smoother. Although it isn’t any lighter. I am probably just used to it.

Until next time!


12109 rounds
Mag #2 baseplate is loose. Still functional.
One dead Monarch Steel cased round. Primer dead.
Dropped four times
One deep gouge in the grip from slamming my glove compartment door on it!
4080 rounds since last cleaning (and almost all of it NASTY). Although I did oil the rails before the match (for no good reason).

[Greg Bell]

Jason,

If I could see my feed ramp I would tell you! Seriously, it is covered in soot.

[Mike H]

Sorry if this has been asked before but what version of P2000 is it, standard DA/SA or LEM, and has the trigger improved/changed with so much use.


Thanks

[Greg Bell]

It is an LEM. The trigger does seem to have improved. But I can't tell if it is just familiarity. The trigger weight hasn't changed much.

[Greg Bell]

Well, folks another 600 rounds through the beast.

On Friday I went to Eagle Gun Range in Macon Georgia (http://www.eaglegunrange.com/). I shot 250 rounds of Monarch Steel cased 9mm. I shot a lot of Mozambique drills, which I now seem to be able to do MUCH faster thanks to all my timer work. The transition between chest and head is quite a bit faster now. I basically lounged around the shooting range chewing the fat.

On Saturday I shot 100 rounds all at 25 yards. I was tinkering with my 556 so I didn’t do anything elaborate with the P2000.

On Sunday I shot 250 rounds with my buddy Clint shooting his 225 and a borrowed Hi-power. I used the timer a lot today. I did a lot of 9 shot, reload and 3 shot drills. I did this with two targets. I have finally gotten my draw time down to a second, with some at .94. Mind you the difference between 1.3 and 1.1 is a lot. At 1.3 I can pretty much keep it all in the A zone at 21 feed. At .9-1.1 I can keep it on the paper, and that is about it. It is good to know I can draw and shoot pretty fast. As a side note, I practiced shooting my Ruger .22 with a timer to see my reaction time from a buzz until I could pull the trigger. It seems like .11 is the best I can do, with .18 being my usual. (This, by the way, is an awesome way to blow a brick of .22) .

I have not cleaned my P2000 yet, and am beginning to debate if I am going to clean it at all. I may just start wiping the exterior with a rag until something malfunctions. The beast actually had a few uncounted rounds of brass cased ammo pumped through it today, when Clint decided to shoot at a target with his 225 in one hand and the P2000 in the other (don’t ask).

Today I just started throwing the gun into the ground for no reason. I have a small ding in the front sight, but it did not move them.

12709 rounds
Mag baseplates are loose. All Still functional.
One dead Monarch Steel cased round. Primer dead.
Dropped four times
Thrown at ground numerous times. Front sight dented, but unmoved.
One deep gouge in the grip from slamming my glove compartment door on it.
4680 rounds since last cleaning

[hoytinak]

So Greg.....any new range trips?

[Sturmgewehre]

Hey Greg, how do you like your 556? My dealer finally got one in.. no manual, no sights, no magazine (all things I could live with) but the darn rail screwed to the top cover is canted ever so slightly to the left. CRAP! I picked it up when I saw it and said I would take it, then the guy at the store told me to look at the rail. He's right, it looks cheap and like a total after thought. If I mounted a rear sight to it, it wouldn't align properly with the front sight... so it's a red dot queen, but even then the further you get away from the rifle as you shoot, the more it's going to be off.

I guess they will probably send it back to Sig for this, but I'm just not impressed with the quality of the rifle. I really-really wanted one too. Maybe I'll still get it if they can fix this problem.

[Greg Bell]

I put the P2000 on sabatical while I shoot some other guns. I will get back to shooting it soon.

My 556 is pretty nice. My dealer had 4, and all of the were straight.

[Mike H]

Seems like a long time since the last update - what's the round count at now Greg?

[Greg Bell]

I have about 15,000 through it. I canned the project due to boredom. The P2000 is, frankly, unbreakable. As I said at the beginning, this was just a prelude to my HK45 project, and so I have started the project listed in my sig line. I shot .45 super through it today ....http://hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70222&page=15

[MikeOrick]

Got to try the HK45 and HK45c last may at a LE demo.

Very nice guns, but I preferred the M&P45. The grip on the HK45 was too long/too much sticking out the bottom of my hand. The HK45c was a much better fit.

[Greg Bell]

The M&P is fine, but unless they melt the backstrap, it will always be bigger than the HK45 from the web of the hand to the trigger. In this area the HK45 is almost exactly like a 1911. The M&P is a little wider throughout the grip and the HK45 has a longer sight radius. Further, the polygonal barrel of the HK45 gives its 4.5 inch barrel the extra FPS to match the ballistics of a 5 inch 1911 barrel. Finaly, the M&P's single action trigger leaves A LOT to be desired. The early M&P 9s were pretty good but the latest ones have heavy triggers despite the manual safety. There are some good gunsmiths who can fix this though. The HK45 has a 4.5 pound trigger vs the 6 pound trigger on the M&P.

The M&P is a great value (And made in the U.S.A, which is starting to matter to me), but the HK45 is IMHO a little more refined in almost every area. The question is, is it worth the extra $350? It is to me, but I like 1911s so $899 doesn't seem like a big deal.

[MikeOrick]

When (not if) the FHS (Future Handgun System), JCP/CP (Joint Combat Pistol/Combat Pistol), and AFFH (Air Force Future Handgun) come back in one form or another, the HKs will get a real going over, and I expect they will do as well as yours is now.

[Greg Bell]

With the small grip insert, the M&P45 felt better to me than the HK45/Hk45c whatever the measurements.

Hellfire, I can't argue with how it feels.

Not worried about a half inch/few fps either. With the better 45 JHP ammo today, no significant difference in terminal ballistic performance until you drop under a 4 inch bbl. Even less of a difference w FMJ.

We will have to agree to disagree on that.

Was at a range w several CBP agents a few weeks ago. They were shooting there new HK P2000s. All would have preferred their old G17s, or the XD, M&P, and even the new SR9 that were also there that day.

Coppers always like their old guns better. Unless they used to be Smiths. If they prefered the SR9 to the P2000 they needed a psych eval and maybe an IQ test.

Different strokes for different folks... viva la differance!

Whatchotalkinbout?

[MikeOrick]

Sorry about that... don't know what got into me; I hate it when people do that to my threads. Fixed it.