Newb here, 1st post and easy question... - Page 2

Canned Heat · January 30, 2011, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Maybe in a couple years I can repay the favor and help someone else out.

Champ you've already helped out us lurkers. I was reloading years ago and now find myself getting back into it. I found your thread very helpful as I pursue getting educated again. Thanks

zippy13 · January 30, 2011, 09:08 PM

Congratulations on your first reloading success.

Some folks like the savings of shooting cast bullets while others prefer the jacketed ones. Of course, one must consider where you'll be shooting, many indoors ranges require jacketed bullets.

If you load jacketed bullets, it just a matter of finding the ones you like the best and then looking for the lowest prices. On the other hand, loading cast bullets can lead to a totally new dimension of hand loading.

Many shooters, after loading cast bullets for a while, decide to eliminate the commercial caster and get into casting their own bullets. With home casts, the highest cost component is reduced significantly. Scrap yards get about $0.75/# for lead wheel-weights, and with 230-gr bullets you get 30/#. That's 2.5 cents per bullet or about the same price as your primers and powder. That's approximately $3.75/box of 50.

With home cast bullets, you'll be shooting .45ACPs for around the same price as good .22LRs. Of course, if you scrounge the lead, you can reduce your costs even more.

4runnerman · January 30, 2011, 09:55 PM

Once again I want to thank everyone for their support and I look forward to my new found hobby. Maybe in a couple years I can repay the favor and help someone else out

spoken like a champ. That is what makes this Forum great. More people needed like that

Good luck and load safe

Champion5 · February 11, 2011, 11:50 AM

Well it has been a couple weeks (and several trips to the range) so I thought I would share what my favorite load so far. Out of a Kimber CDP II...

This load is my favorite so far, chambers every round and have had no failures in over 300 rounds. Very accurate and kicks like a 9mm.
5.5 Unique
Berry's 230 RN
CCI Primer
OAL 1.25
.469

Same load above is also my favorite with Missouri 230 LRN, although I have only put about 50 rounds through.

I am trying to work up a Bullseye load and had a couple stove pipes and it seems very dirty. I am also currently working up some 321 loads that are going great.

I thought I was going to save money getting into this whole reloading game but after hitting the range three times a week, well, you know.

Jim243 · February 11, 2011, 12:07 PM

Yes we know and welcome.

Jim

**Unclenick** · February 11, 2011, 12:44 PM

Champion5,

Stovepipes and residue are low pressure signs. I think you'll find 5.0 grains of Bullseye equals 5.5 grains of Unique on peak pressure in .45 ACP hardball.

Hodgdon Universal Clays is a pretty good Unique substitute. Maybe 5.2 or 5.3 grains will produce peak pressure equal to 5.5 of Unique in .45 Hardball. Universal meters better and burns cleaner. Just don't confuse Universal Clays with just plain Clays, which is a faster powder you can't use as much of.

Rifletom · February 11, 2011, 02:06 PM

Being new to this site, I'll ask a couple of "newbie" questions.
Regarding .45acp's, where can I find Montana Gold bullets[100 ct],230RN?All the other places will sell 500 or more. I would like to try 100 to see if I like them or not. My current load for my .45 is 6.0-6.2gr Unique under Hornady 200gr XTP-HP. But, I've heard some good things about those Montana bullets; just didn't want to buy 500 to start with.
Secondly, any opinions on Hornady's 158gr swc-hp for .38spl. Haven't tried any bullets with that type of dry lube before.
Load would be in the 4.2-4.4 range from a 6.5" Ruger Blackhawk.
Thanks for putting up with another newbie and questions.

Champion5 · February 11, 2011, 02:55 PM

One of my local shops sells Montana Golds per 100 packs, so I can get them there. I am new to this but my Berry's plated look and feel identical (besides color). You can get Berry's in 250 packs at Cabelas for $37, if you have one of those close. That is a lot cheaper than my local store with Montana Golds. I'll keep you in mind next time I go restock on supplies and buy a hundred Montanas and mail you a couple dozen to try, if you would like.

**Unclenick** · February 12, 2011, 10:29 AM

Champion5,

Berry's are plated bullets, while Montana Gold are jacketed bullets. Plated bullets, per the manufacturer's instructions, must be fired using lead bullet load data, which is generally lighter than jacketed bullet load data.

Plated bullets have soft copper on the outside that is applied by electroplating onto a soft lead core. Their main purpose is to replace lead bullets at (mostly indoor) ranges that don't allow exposed lead bullets, and to reduce metal fouling in the bore.

Jacketed bullets are covered with gilding metal, which, though copper colored, is actually a mild form of brass, having 5% to 10% zinc mixed with the copper, and, occasionally a couple of % tin (Luballoy), making a brass/bronze hybrid. Sierra, for example, keeps their exact gilding metal alloy formulation proprietary. I expect some other large makers do the same. Custom makers are pretty much too small to do anything but buy cups of the usual 5% zinc formulation.

Gilding metals are harder than the copper on plated bullets. As a result, jacketed bullets can generally be driven to higher velocities and can generally withstand greater impact velocities without unintended deformation (intended deformation is by design; e.g., hollow point expansion) than plated ones can. They are also easier to mass manufacture precisely, so the most accurate match bullets are usually jacketed. They are also more expensive.

Montana Gold and Berry's both can be purchased directly from the manufacturers. Google them.

Champion5 · February 14, 2011, 12:00 PM

Unclenick,

Thanks for the info! I upped my Bullseye to 4.9g and have not had a single stovepipe! They are very accurate and seem to burn most all of the powder. I got them loaded with Missouri 230g rn and they are tack drivers!

On another note, I got some Federal Brass and it seems they have a harder time going through my Lee FCD. I really have to put some effort into getting them to go in where as my other brass (Remington, PPE, Winchester) takes less effort, hardly any at all. I have checked and the OAL(1.25) and width (.470) stay the same. Any ideas?

**Unclenick** · February 14, 2011, 05:36 PM

I suspect it's just the brass being thicker. SAAMI only tells manufacturers the limits of the outside dimensions of a finished cartridge. What they do on the inside of the brass is up to them as long as the finished round comes out OK and it functions and holds standard pressures OK.

I like Winchester's brass. R-P is thinner at the case mouth and I had a lot of trouble with it work-hardening, then getting to springy to resize adequately, so it didn't hold bullets well enough after a few reloads. Winchester I've run up to 50 target loads with. It shrinks some by then. Unlike rifle brass, low pressure pistol brass tends to shrink slightly with each load cycle. I lost about half a thousandth per load cycle, so the crimp die has to be adjusted down for it over time.

The best domestically made brass, though, is either Starline or Top Brass (Scharch Mfg.). Both brands have about half the spread in weight that other brands or military cases do. Both are competitively priced, though if you don't lose them before they wear out, after you pass 20 reloads, brass price ceases to be much of a factor per load.

Champion5 · February 15, 2011, 09:15 PM

Thanks! I do have some starline that's been on order for a couple weeks. It's backordered for another two weeks but it's okay. There must have been a member at my range that bought a new gun as well as several cases of federal ammo. So far I probably have picked up almost a thousand pieces of federal brass. I'm in no hurry for my starline.

February 11, 2011, 11:50 AM	#29
Champion5 Member Join Date: January 25, 2011 Location: PA Posts: 52	3" Kimber CDP II Loads Well it has been a couple weeks (and several trips to the range) so I thought I would share what my favorite load so far. Out of a Kimber CDP II... This load is my favorite so far, chambers every round and have had no failures in over 300 rounds. Very accurate and kicks like a 9mm. 5.5 Unique Berry's 230 RN CCI Primer OAL 1.25 .469 Same load above is also my favorite with Missouri 230 LRN, although I have only put about 50 rounds through. I am trying to work up a Bullseye load and had a couple stove pipes and it seems very dirty. I am also currently working up some 321 loads that are going great. I thought I was going to save money getting into this whole reloading game but after hitting the range three times a week, well, you know.

February 11, 2011, 12:44 PM	#31
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,121	Champion5, Stovepipes and residue are low pressure signs. I think you'll find 5.0 grains of Bullseye equals 5.5 grains of Unique on peak pressure in .45 ACP hardball. Hodgdon Universal Clays is a pretty good Unique substitute. Maybe 5.2 or 5.3 grains will produce peak pressure equal to 5.5 of Unique in .45 Hardball. Universal meters better and burns cleaner. Just don't confuse Universal Clays with just plain Clays, which is a faster powder you can't use as much of. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

February 12, 2011, 10:29 AM	#34
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,121	Champion5, Berry's are plated bullets, while Montana Gold are jacketed bullets. Plated bullets, per the manufacturer's instructions, must be fired using lead bullet load data, which is generally lighter than jacketed bullet load data. Plated bullets have soft copper on the outside that is applied by electroplating onto a soft lead core. Their main purpose is to replace lead bullets at (mostly indoor) ranges that don't allow exposed lead bullets, and to reduce metal fouling in the bore. Jacketed bullets are covered with gilding metal, which, though copper colored, is actually a mild form of brass, having 5% to 10% zinc mixed with the copper, and, occasionally a couple of % tin (Luballoy), making a brass/bronze hybrid. Sierra, for example, keeps their exact gilding metal alloy formulation proprietary. I expect some other large makers do the same. Custom makers are pretty much too small to do anything but buy cups of the usual 5% zinc formulation. Gilding metals are harder than the copper on plated bullets. As a result, jacketed bullets can generally be driven to higher velocities and can generally withstand greater impact velocities without unintended deformation (intended deformation is by design; e.g., hollow point expansion) than plated ones can. They are also easier to mass manufacture precisely, so the most accurate match bullets are usually jacketed. They are also more expensive. Montana Gold and Berry's both can be purchased directly from the manufacturers. Google them. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; February 12, 2011 at 10:45 AM.

February 14, 2011, 05:36 PM	#36
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,121	I suspect it's just the brass being thicker. SAAMI only tells manufacturers the limits of the outside dimensions of a finished cartridge. What they do on the inside of the brass is up to them as long as the finished round comes out OK and it functions and holds standard pressures OK. I like Winchester's brass. R-P is thinner at the case mouth and I had a lot of trouble with it work-hardening, then getting to springy to resize adequately, so it didn't hold bullets well enough after a few reloads. Winchester I've run up to 50 target loads with. It shrinks some by then. Unlike rifle brass, low pressure pistol brass tends to shrink slightly with each load cycle. I lost about half a thousandth per load cycle, so the crimp die has to be adjusted down for it over time. The best domestically made brass, though, is either Starline or Top Brass (Scharch Mfg.). Both brands have about half the spread in weight that other brands or military cases do. Both are competitively priced, though if you don't lose them before they wear out, after you pass 20 reloads, brass price ceases to be much of a factor per load. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 30, 2011, 09:08 PM	#27
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Congratulations on your first reloading success. Some folks like the savings of shooting cast bullets while others prefer the jacketed ones. Of course, one must consider where you'll be shooting, many indoors ranges require jacketed bullets. If you load jacketed bullets, it just a matter of finding the ones you like the best and then looking for the lowest prices. On the other hand, loading cast bullets can lead to a totally new dimension of hand loading. Many shooters, after loading cast bullets for a while, decide to eliminate the commercial caster and get into casting their own bullets. With home casts, the highest cost component is reduced significantly. Scrap yards get about $0.75/# for lead wheel-weights, and with 230-gr bullets you get 30/#. That's 2.5 cents per bullet or about the same price as your primers and powder. That's approximately $3.75/box of 50. With home cast bullets, you'll be shooting .45ACPs for around the same price as good .22LRs. Of course, if you scrounge the lead, you can reduce your costs even more.

January 30, 2011, 09:55 PM	#28
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	Once again I want to thank everyone for their support and I look forward to my new found hobby. Maybe in a couple years I can repay the favor and help someone else out spoken like a champ. That is what makes this Forum great. More people needed like that Good luck and load safe

February 11, 2011, 12:07 PM	#30
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	Yes we know and welcome. Jim

February 11, 2011, 02:06 PM	#32
Rifletom Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2011 Location: So-Cal Posts: 792	Being new to this site, I'll ask a couple of "newbie" questions. Regarding .45acp's, where can I find Montana Gold bullets[100 ct],230RN?All the other places will sell 500 or more. I would like to try 100 to see if I like them or not. My current load for my .45 is 6.0-6.2gr Unique under Hornady 200gr XTP-HP. But, I've heard some good things about those Montana bullets; just didn't want to buy 500 to start with. Secondly, any opinions on Hornady's 158gr swc-hp for .38spl. Haven't tried any bullets with that type of dry lube before. Load would be in the 4.2-4.4 range from a 6.5" Ruger Blackhawk. Thanks for putting up with another newbie and questions.

February 11, 2011, 02:55 PM	#33
Champion5 Member Join Date: January 25, 2011 Location: PA Posts: 52	One of my local shops sells Montana Golds per 100 packs, so I can get them there. I am new to this but my Berry's plated look and feel identical (besides color). You can get Berry's in 250 packs at Cabelas for $37, if you have one of those close. That is a lot cheaper than my local store with Montana Golds. I'll keep you in mind next time I go restock on supplies and buy a hundred Montanas and mail you a couple dozen to try, if you would like.

February 14, 2011, 12:00 PM	#35
Champion5 Member Join Date: January 25, 2011 Location: PA Posts: 52	Unclenick, Thanks for the info! I upped my Bullseye to 4.9g and have not had a single stovepipe! They are very accurate and seem to burn most all of the powder. I got them loaded with Missouri 230g rn and they are tack drivers! On another note, I got some Federal Brass and it seems they have a harder time going through my Lee FCD. I really have to put some effort into getting them to go in where as my other brass (Remington, PPE, Winchester) takes less effort, hardly any at all. I have checked and the OAL(1.25) and width (.470) stay the same. Any ideas?

February 15, 2011, 09:15 PM	#37
Champion5 Member Join Date: January 25, 2011 Location: PA Posts: 52	Thanks! I do have some starline that's been on order for a couple weeks. It's backordered for another two weeks but it's okay. There must have been a member at my range that bought a new gun as well as several cases of federal ammo. So far I probably have picked up almost a thousand pieces of federal brass. I'm in no hurry for my starline.