Is a 9mm really the one? - Page 2

Maromero · June 12, 2010, 06:33 PM

Quote:

For me, 00 buck is "the one

...or it's twin brother, the slug.

**Tom Servo** · June 12, 2010, 09:20 PM

I really don't consider caliber all that much anymore. A few years back, I standardized my ammunition inventory, and for automatics, I only kept guns in 9mm and .45.

For me, the only real difference I see in caliber is the gun that's made for it. If there was (still) a 9mm Sig P220, I'd likely own one. Likewise, if CZ could make something similar to the P-01 in .45, I'd likely have one. I'm far more concerned with how well the gun shoots for me than I am the caliber for which it's chambered.

Now, if it's going to be a defensive gun of any caliber, I'm only going to be using top-shelf loadings. At that point, I don't see a great deal of difference. My decision on which to carry will hinge more on which one I've shot more with recently and what's practical for mode of dress and weather.

I don't get up and think, "I'm going to carry a .45." Rather, I think, "I'm going to carry the 1911." Or the Beretta. Or a wheelgun.

(Spell-check thinks "Beretta" is a misspelling)

All said, I do find myself shooting 9mm more these days due to ammo cost. Undeniably, there are some truly iconic guns chambered for the cartridge, and all of the manufacturers the OP mentioned make fine guns for it.

noyes · June 12, 2010, 11:22 PM

Quote:

..... and some birds can eat an elephant (provided the elephant is dead!).

Define "surpass", as you intended it ..... for that matter, define "many".... how "many" examples can you give? I'll bet it's....... wait for it......

......"Not Many".

Compare to start a 454 or 50 S&W to 30-30 308 7.62x39 .223 etc.

Have fun

http://www.shootingtimes.com/ballist...listic-tables/

noyes · June 12, 2010, 11:41 PM

Quote:

I wonder if that bowl will be enough....

Thanks for the popcorn

jimbob86 · June 12, 2010, 11:55 PM

I compared the .454Casull and .30/30 ....

The first thing i noticed was that the range & energy table for the .454 ended at 50 yards.... if I had to limit my hunting to 50 yards..... I'd be mighty hungry about every other year...

The .454 achieves slighty higher energy at 50 yards than the 30/30 at 100... at the expense of being painful to shoot, and is available only in an inaccurate and expensive platform. The 30/30, on the other hand, is much more managable: My daughter killed her first deer with one at age 12. I would not even dream of handing her a .454 and not expecting the front sight to whack her in the forehead when she touched it off....

Rifles are rifles, and pistols are handy, but they ain't a substitute for a rifle.

noyes · June 13, 2010, 12:02 AM

Quote:

I compared the .454Casull and .30/30 ....

The first thing i noticed was that the range & energy table for the .454 ended at 50 yards.... if I had to limit my hunting to 50 yards..... I'd be mighty hungry about every other year...

The .454 achieves slighty higher energy at 50 yards than the 30/30 at 100... at the expense of being painful to shoot, and is available only in an inaccurate and expensive platform. The 30/30, on the other hand, is much more managable: My daughter killed her first deer with one at age 12. I would not even dream of handing her a .454 and not expecting the front sight to whack her in the forehead when she touched it off....

Rifles are rifles, and pistols are handy, .

Nice write up!

But we'll just have to agree to disagree with the " but they ain't a substitute for a rifle"
part.

jimbob86 · June 13, 2010, 12:37 AM

You disagree with the

Quote:

but they ain't a substitute for a rifle"
part.

Care to support that? True, a bananna dipped in liquid nitrogen CAN be a substitute for a hammer, but it is NOT the best tool for the job. Likewise, if filling the freezer with venison is the task, the .454 Casull is cool and all, but it sure ain't the optimum tool for the job.

noyes · June 13, 2010, 12:50 AM

one hundred yards http://www.hornady.com/store/454-Casull-240-gr-XTP-Mag/

more hand gun rounds

http://www.hornady.com/ammunition/handgun

and FUN stuff

http://www.google.com/search?q=300+y...ed=0CCEQqwQwAw

jimbob86 · June 13, 2010, 01:22 AM

The Hornady site listed 240 gr .454 load at 1178 f/sec and 1163 ft/lbs at 100 yards.... Speer's (conservative) 150gr 30/30 load is doing 1897f/sec and delivers 1198ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards..

30/30 wins in the velocity and energy departments.

30/30 wins based on cost of platform, bullets, cases, loaded ammo

30/30 wins in recoil management: in physics, TANSTAAFL!

30/30 wins in th accuracy dept. as the longer sight radius and stability the stock (I won't even add a sling!) provides don't even make it close..... despite the anecdotal evidence a few trick shot youtube videos provide....

If the .454 was a better (cheaper and more effective) hunting round than the 30/30, then people would, you know......actually use it. Instead, tens of thousands of hunters hit the woods every fall with their Marlins and Winchesters, compared to the untold DOZENS of Casull wielding bambi slayers...

....much the same way as millions of folks go to work with a 16 oz. carpenter's hammer in their tool box every flippin' day, and 3 idjits pound a nail with a frozen bananna..... guess which group makes a popular youtube video of their activity (cause you sure can't call it "work", or even "art"!)???

dean1818 · June 13, 2010, 01:23 AM

Another vote for the 40

noyes · June 13, 2010, 01:55 AM

Quote:

The Hornady site listed 240 gr .454 load at 1178 f/sec and 1163 ft/lbs at 100 yards

You may want to check those numbers again. 1478/1163

NWCP · June 13, 2010, 02:02 AM

I own several nines, one .40 and a few ,45s. I practice with the 9mm a lot due to ammo cost. All of my three primary carry pistols, 9mm, .40,and .45 have the same trigger group installed for consistency. I don't feel under gunned with a 9mm, or .40.

pythagorean · June 13, 2010, 07:53 AM

The 9mm is king when firepower is a necessity to survive in a multiple enemy situation. It will at the very least afford you suppressive fire.

Sarge · June 13, 2010, 08:32 AM

I am an "old 45 guy" myself, as in either of the 'Colt' .45 cartridges. I really had no reason to switch other than the fact that in my case, Glocks and the .40 S&W are an occupational fact of life. I finally took a good, hard look at the .40 S&W and discovered that it's a pretty darn good substitute after all.

sks · June 13, 2010, 08:52 AM

Tiny, the 9mm is fine. I carry a SIG 228 in 9, a Browhing BHP in .40 and a Glock G36 in .45, not all at once though.

I feel perfectly fine with any of those. It depends on where I am going, how I am dressed and what I will be doing. Why do I feel comfortable with any of them? Because I shoot all of them well.

If you shoot a 9mm well and a .40 bad then I would opt for a five shot 9mm over a 20 shot .45! Yes, I did just say that. Get proficient with what you shoot and practice, practice, practice. The ballistics tables, internet opinions and penetration depths of various calibers, bullet weights and types will not help you if you have to use your weapon. None of those will be with you at the moment of truth, just you and the weapon you have hopefully practiced with.

If you want a nine simply to have one then by all means get one. They are fun to shoot and yes, cheaper than .45 acp. Also, if you introduce new shooters to firearms a 9mm is a great place to start after the .22 of course.

Recently a friend and I took our wives shooting and it was the first time for his wife to ever shoot a gun; she is 54. He started her on his Ruger LCP and she hated it. Too small to hold well and too much snap. She then shot my 92FS and loved it. Big gun, heavy and light recoil.

I have many handgun calibers and enjoy them all but some were designed to do different things. That is why I must continue to buy more guns and the goodies that go with them.

Now as to what gun you should get...

Enjoy.

erob3 · June 13, 2010, 04:32 PM

Absolutely!! The 9mm offers everything. High Capacity, great conceal weapon, +P ammo, cheap range shooting, great choices of pistols. You can go on and on. Yes - It is the One.

Coltman 77 · June 13, 2010, 04:55 PM

After two pages of answers to your question, what are you thinking about the 9mm now?

Lots of folks have spent a bit of time to respond to your thread, please do us the courtesy of a response.

Leejack · June 13, 2010, 05:05 PM

I wouldn't want to get hit by one!

Lee

Wishoot · June 13, 2010, 07:47 PM

There's a lot of fine ammo out there that make the 9mm a very potent weapon.

I have no problem with my 16+1 CZ 75B with three mags. Hopefully, I'll never need that much ammo in a fight.

ftballgod · June 13, 2010, 10:54 PM

i love my 9mm's i would trust my life with them. plus they are fun and cheap to shoot.

Elvishead · June 14, 2010, 02:55 AM

I was talked into getting one and I glad I got one, or two, or three. Those and .357mag revolver's.

June 12, 2010, 09:20 PM	#27
Tom Servo Staff Join Date: September 27, 2008 Location: Foothills of the Appalachians Posts: 13,061	I really don't consider caliber all that much anymore. A few years back, I standardized my ammunition inventory, and for automatics, I only kept guns in 9mm and .45. For me, the only real difference I see in caliber is the gun that's made for it. If there was (still) a 9mm Sig P220, I'd likely own one. Likewise, if CZ could make something similar to the P-01 in .45, I'd likely have one. I'm far more concerned with how well the gun shoots for me than I am the caliber for which it's chambered. Now, if it's going to be a defensive gun of any caliber, I'm only going to be using top-shelf loadings. At that point, I don't see a great deal of difference. My decision on which to carry will hinge more on which one I've shot more with recently and what's practical for mode of dress and weather. I don't get up and think, "I'm going to carry a .45." Rather, I think, "I'm going to carry the 1911." Or the Beretta. Or a wheelgun. (Spell-check thinks "Beretta" is a misspelling) All said, I do find myself shooting 9mm more these days due to ammo cost. Undeniably, there are some truly iconic guns chambered for the cartridge, and all of the manufacturers the OP mentioned make fine guns for it. __________________ Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe

June 13, 2010, 08:32 AM	#39
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,460	I am an "old 45 guy" myself, as in either of the 'Colt' .45 cartridges. I really had no reason to switch other than the fact that in my case, Glocks and the .40 S&W are an occupational fact of life. I finally took a good, hard look at the .40 S&W and discovered that it's a pretty darn good substitute after all. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

June 13, 2010, 04:55 PM	#42
Coltman 77 Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2009 Location: NC Posts: 1,244	So Tiny Dee -- Time For A Response After two pages of answers to your question, what are you thinking about the 9mm now? Lots of folks have spent a bit of time to respond to your thread, please do us the courtesy of a response.

June 12, 2010, 11:55 PM	#30
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	I compared the .454Casull and .30/30 .... The first thing i noticed was that the range & energy table for the .454 ended at 50 yards.... if I had to limit my hunting to 50 yards..... I'd be mighty hungry about every other year... The .454 achieves slighty higher energy at 50 yards than the 30/30 at 100... at the expense of being painful to shoot, and is available only in an inaccurate and expensive platform. The 30/30, on the other hand, is much more managable: My daughter killed her first deer with one at age 12. I would not even dream of handing her a .454 and not expecting the front sight to whack her in the forehead when she touched it off.... Rifles are rifles, and pistols are handy, but they ain't a substitute for a rifle.

June 13, 2010, 12:50 AM	#33
noyes Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2008 Posts: 1,032	one hundred yards http://www.hornady.com/store/454-Casull-240-gr-XTP-Mag/ more hand gun rounds http://www.hornady.com/ammunition/handgun and FUN stuff http://www.google.com/search?q=300+y...ed=0CCEQqwQwAw

June 13, 2010, 01:22 AM	#34
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	The Hornady site listed 240 gr .454 load at 1178 f/sec and 1163 ft/lbs at 100 yards.... Speer's (conservative) 150gr 30/30 load is doing 1897f/sec and delivers 1198ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards.. 30/30 wins in the velocity and energy departments. 30/30 wins based on cost of platform, bullets, cases, loaded ammo 30/30 wins in recoil management: in physics, TANSTAAFL! 30/30 wins in th accuracy dept. as the longer sight radius and stability the stock (I won't even add a sling!) provides don't even make it close..... despite the anecdotal evidence a few trick shot youtube videos provide.... If the .454 was a better (cheaper and more effective) hunting round than the 30/30, then people would, you know......actually use it. Instead, tens of thousands of hunters hit the woods every fall with their Marlins and Winchesters, compared to the untold DOZENS of Casull wielding bambi slayers... ....much the same way as millions of folks go to work with a 16 oz. carpenter's hammer in their tool box every flippin' day, and 3 idjits pound a nail with a frozen bananna..... guess which group makes a popular youtube video of their activity (cause you sure can't call it "work", or even "art"!)???

June 13, 2010, 01:23 AM	#35
dean1818 Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Location: Frisco Texas Posts: 844	Another vote for the 40

June 13, 2010, 02:02 AM	#37
NWCP Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2006 Posts: 1,903	I own several nines, one .40 and a few ,45s. I practice with the 9mm a lot due to ammo cost. All of my three primary carry pistols, 9mm, .40,and .45 have the same trigger group installed for consistency. I don't feel under gunned with a 9mm, or .40.

June 13, 2010, 07:53 AM	#38
pythagorean Junior member Join Date: January 27, 2008 Posts: 970	The 9mm is king when firepower is a necessity to survive in a multiple enemy situation. It will at the very least afford you suppressive fire.

June 13, 2010, 08:52 AM	#40
sks Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2000 Location: Williamsburg, MO Posts: 944	Tiny, the 9mm is fine. I carry a SIG 228 in 9, a Browhing BHP in .40 and a Glock G36 in .45, not all at once though. I feel perfectly fine with any of those. It depends on where I am going, how I am dressed and what I will be doing. Why do I feel comfortable with any of them? Because I shoot all of them well. If you shoot a 9mm well and a .40 bad then I would opt for a five shot 9mm over a 20 shot .45! Yes, I did just say that. Get proficient with what you shoot and practice, practice, practice. The ballistics tables, internet opinions and penetration depths of various calibers, bullet weights and types will not help you if you have to use your weapon. None of those will be with you at the moment of truth, just you and the weapon you have hopefully practiced with. If you want a nine simply to have one then by all means get one. They are fun to shoot and yes, cheaper than .45 acp. Also, if you introduce new shooters to firearms a 9mm is a great place to start after the .22 of course. Recently a friend and I took our wives shooting and it was the first time for his wife to ever shoot a gun; she is 54. He started her on his Ruger LCP and she hated it. Too small to hold well and too much snap. She then shot my 92FS and loved it. Big gun, heavy and light recoil. I have many handgun calibers and enjoy them all but some were designed to do different things. That is why I must continue to buy more guns and the goodies that go with them. Now as to what gun you should get... Enjoy.

June 13, 2010, 04:32 PM	#41
erob3 Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2010 Location: East Tn. for 56 years Posts: 540	Absolutely!! The 9mm offers everything. High Capacity, great conceal weapon, +P ammo, cheap range shooting, great choices of pistols. You can go on and on. Yes - It is the One.

June 13, 2010, 05:05 PM	#43
Leejack Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: The Alamo! Posts: 2,056	I wouldn't want to get hit by one! Lee

June 13, 2010, 07:47 PM	#44
Wishoot Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2009 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,093	There's a lot of fine ammo out there that make the 9mm a very potent weapon. I have no problem with my 16+1 CZ 75B with three mags. Hopefully, I'll never need that much ammo in a fight.

June 13, 2010, 10:54 PM	#45
ftballgod Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2010 Posts: 268	i love my 9mm's i would trust my life with them. plus they are fun and cheap to shoot.

June 14, 2010, 02:55 AM	#46
Elvishead Junior member Join Date: August 8, 2007 Location: Las vegas, NV Posts: 3,397	I was talked into getting one and I glad I got one, or two, or three. Those and .357mag revolver's.