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Old October 1, 2001, 12:00 AM   #1
Gabe
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Lee Enfield action for modern tactical rifle?

It seems many people feel the Lee Enfield opposing lug system (ala No.4 Mk1) is a superior military action compared to the Mauser 98 action.

Would it make sense to use this action for a modern tactical rifle?

Last edited by Gabe; October 1, 2001 at 03:07 AM.
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Old October 1, 2001, 08:19 AM   #2
Art Eatman
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To me, "tactical" means killing people as the primary use. I don't think it means a police-sniper type of use on maybe only one individual bad guy, compared to the need to defend one's home against a group of looters. I would not figure on a bolt action rifle for that purpose.

Since the odds are against "humping through the boonies" with a heavy load, the actual weight of a civilian's tactical rifle is less important than might otherwise be the case.

As you know, there are many semi-auto rifles of .223 or .308 from which to choose.

, Art
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Old October 1, 2001, 03:56 PM   #3
9mmepiphany
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as much as i like the enfield, and i do enough to consider turning one into a "utility scout", it would not be my first choice as a "tactical rifle".

as art has already said, there are plenty of .223 and .308 semiautos out there that make better a "tactical rifles". if you like rifles with "history" you could look at an sks ( my canidate for an "CA urban scout"

if you already have the enfield, it is very likely the most suitable canidate of the bolt actions for you use due to the mag capacity and speed of action
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Old October 1, 2001, 06:09 PM   #4
Gabe
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What I meant was using the action in a precision rifle, used in the tactical sense, i.e. a police sniper rifle.

In a recent thread, many tend to think this is the best wartime bolt rifle design. My question is would it be a good substitute for the ubiquitous Remington 700 actions?
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Old October 1, 2001, 06:31 PM   #5
9mmepiphany
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well...the british used it as the issue sniper rifle until they adopted the AW

it was chambered in 7.62x51mm and had the stock cut back (sorta like the #5)

the main advantage of the enfield is that you can work the action without breaking your cheek weld, very fast and it cocks on closing so it just "springs" open as you flick up the bolt handle with your index finger
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Old November 12, 2001, 06:25 PM   #6
boogerbawb
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I like the Lee Enfield action enough that I built a semi-Scout rifle on the Navy Arms Ishapore copy of the "Jungle Carbine" in .308 caliber. Never could make the ideal weight, and the B-Square Scout Scope Mount that replaces the rear sight ladder is awful...even with low Weaver rings, you can only get a "chin weld" even with a synthetic Monte carlo stock. Next attempt will involve removing rear sight entirely and trying the Beast Enterprises Ching Ring scout scope mount.

The action itself is very nice, and the L-E scout shot and handled very well with "Ghost Ring" peep installed, altho front sight is a bit hard to pick up. Ten-round mags are very nice, tho expensive, and while not as smooth as an M1A or M16 mag change, still do quite well. Can't think of any other military bolt guns you can reload while keeping one up the spout. Have heard from more than one Commonwealth veteran who "appropriated" extra L-E mags even tho the rifle was supposed to be reloaded via stripper clips.

The bolt handle is ideally located close to the firing hand, the bolt throw is an inch shorter than the Mauser's, and the cock-on-closing doesn;t bother me as that's when you're applying the most pressure anyway.

My particular carbine, tho, is very very hard pressed to shoot even 2 MOA groups at 100 yards, my biggest turn-off, since my 1903A3 and Spanish mauser FR-7 both shoot within a hair of MOA and my 6.5 Swede shoots within that magic number with ease....my 12-year-old daughter can do it, too.
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Old November 13, 2001, 12:21 AM   #7
DW Altom
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For a 10-shot .308 scout gun perfect for hunting or just be-bopping through the woods, check out http://www.scoutman308.com/



My friend Robby Brentlinger has had pretty good success turning old military Ishapore .308 Enfields and .308 Mausers into something useful. Robby is a very experienced shooter and an honorable, no "BS" businessman who knows his stuff.

Fitted with Ashley Express sights and scope mounts, and a variety of synthetic stocks, Robby's creations are robust, practical and economical. I've an Ishapore on order (just one more payment and it's mine!), replacing my Savage Scout.

I hope to take Randy Cain's practical rifle class next year with my new "Indian Scout" ... funny, how you can take a bolt gun a lot of places where ARs are frowned upon.

Randy, by the way, is a big fan of the Ishapore scouts, and has helped Robby sell several.
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Old November 13, 2001, 07:08 PM   #8
Redlg155
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WOW!..those Enfields look great!

I have a No4 Mk1 that I am seriously considering sending to Kurts Custom and having the barrel shortened to 18" and a muzzle brake installed. I need to check into getting a scout rail mounted also...dang..those have me drooling!

I'm taking her hunting with me this weekend for hogs, so I get to see just how the .303 British performs againt 200+lbs of angry boarhog!

Good SHooting
RED
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Old November 14, 2001, 09:44 AM   #9
Jaeger
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I made my Enfield Scout from a #5 Mk1. You can see an article and pictures at www.303british.com
Click on the article, "Saving a Burnt Out Jungle Carbine"

This rifle is very accurate. It shouldn't be, but it is. I took it to the range the other week to verify my zero for hunting season and it placed 3 Federal 180gr soft points into .68" at 100 yds.. This is not an uncommon occurance.
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Old November 14, 2001, 08:03 PM   #10
Lord Grey Boots
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I've been thinking of getting the Ramline stock for my Gibbs QE. Anybody got any opinions? Will it fit a bit better? I think the stock on my Gibbs is a bit short.

Jaeger, I saw that article before. Thats a cool setup.
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Old November 15, 2001, 06:38 AM   #11
Mk VII
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the L-E action is not one which has much intrinsic accuracy in it, like most rear-locking actions. They can be made to shoot well, by the standards of the 1970s and 80s but British shooters have pretty well discarded them for serious competition now. The No.4 is able to accept the pressures generated by the .308 Win cartridge but is pretty well strained to the limit, and it occasionally lets go under under the stress of a hi-pressure load and a rain-soaked action. They also shot about 5 minutes high when they get wet. Receiver modification is required for reliable feeding - unless you want to stick with the .303 case or modifications of it.
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Old November 15, 2001, 06:05 PM   #12
Jaeger
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Thanks. The Ramline stock is pretty nice. It comes with a Pachmayer Decelerator recoil pad which is plus. The stock is mostly hollow. The bolt that holds the buttstock in place is retained by a steel bar that is retained by some shoulders inside the stock. It seems kind of flimsey but it hasn't given me any trouble so far. I would like to find some way of reinforcing it if for no other reason than piece of mind.

The ATI stock does seem stronger although it has that horrible "cheap plastic" feel to it and does not come with a recoil pad.

One day I will either locate or have made a laminate thumbhole stock for this rifle. Don't ask me why I want one but I do. I saw one in the second "Crocodile Dundee" movie when it first came out and have wanted one ever since!

I don't know why my rifle is as accurate as it is. The barrel is a cheap, $20 2 groove barrel from Springfield Sporters. Nothing is bedded and the trigger still leaves something to be desired.
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Old November 16, 2001, 06:21 PM   #13
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Navy Arm's has one listed in thier catalog. It is a Mod. 2A, converted to .308 with a parker-hale style muzzle brake, scope mount and zytel stock. Barrel lengh of 18" or 22.5".


$200 wholesale.

I have no idea if they are any good, but they sure are interesting.
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