The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 22, 2001, 03:35 PM   #1
300winguy
Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 2001
Location: Indiana
Posts: 70
357 bullets/powder for deer?

I only have a S&W 686 357 mag with a four inche barrel.(no I can't buy a 44mag etc) I would like to hunt deer with it (out to 25 yards)Yes, this is legal in my state. What powder bullet combination would be best overall? I currently have 158 and 170 grain Sierra jacketed hollow points to load up. Would either of these be reliable?
300winguy is offline  
Old October 22, 2001, 04:54 PM   #2
Poodleshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 7, 2000
Location: Floating down the James River in VA
Posts: 2,539
There's probably only about 3 powders that can give you deer hunting speed and energy-WW296,H110 or Alliant 2400. Probably the 170gr JHP would be your best bet.
Poodleshooter is offline  
Old October 22, 2001, 07:38 PM   #3
Keith J
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2000
Posts: 469
158 JHP driven by IMR 4227 @ maximum loads. Its safe and clean. Choose your shot carefully, its marginal.
Keith J is offline  
Old October 23, 2001, 01:05 AM   #4
taco
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 28, 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 936
I would suggest LBT's design 180gr WLN-GC cast bullet with enough H110 to get it to 1,000fps.
taco is offline  
Old October 23, 2001, 05:55 AM   #5
WESHOOT2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 1999
Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country)
Posts: 14,242
LIMITED BY CYLINDER LENGTH

Suggest 158g XTP-HP over W296, H110, N110, AA9, 2400.

A well-aimed shot will work; a poorly placed shot will not.
__________________
.
"all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"
WESHOOT2 is offline  
Old October 23, 2001, 08:05 AM   #6
Boo586
Member
 
Join Date: May 15, 2001
Location: Indiana
Posts: 85
THe short tube is going to limit you, but I would use the 170 grain bullet. I use the 180 grain Hornady XTP-JHP over 12.0 grains of A2400. I shot this load last weekend and it did very well. I shoot these out of a 6 inch S&W 586. I also limit myself to a 25 yard shot. It is all that I am capable of accurately shooting because I don't get to practice enough. I hunt down in southern Indiana near the small town of Dubois. Where are you going to be hunting?

Boo586
Boo586 is offline  
Old October 23, 2001, 09:02 AM   #7
LIProgun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 2000
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 489
I suggest Speer's 160 grain semi-jackted semiwadcutter (sometimes called "short jacket soft point") over a max load of Win 296 and a magnum pistol primer. This design has proven to be a very deep and reliable penetrator in game.
__________________
MOLON LABE.

- Leonidas of Sparta, 480 B.C.
LIProgun is offline  
Old October 23, 2001, 10:03 AM   #8
Johnny Guest
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: August 28, 1999
Location: North Texas
Posts: 4,116
Whitetail with a Short .357

300winguy - - -

Practice kit for handgun hunting deer---

- -Cheap package of paper plates, about ten-inch diameter
- -cheapest can of gray or tan spray paint
- -Stapler or masking tape.
- - Safe place to shoot
- -Couple of boxes of hunting ammo

Spray plates a color similar to deer in your hunting area--Just not something in high contrast colors..

Hang plates at varying distances. Practice shooting them FROM FIELD POSITIONS.. It does no good to practice from bench with formal rest. Sitting, standing, over a tree limb-- positions like these. The distance at which you can reliably put five out of six into the plate is max range for that position. Then go back and do it with some sort of artificial time constraint. The deer will not stand around all day, waiting on you.

I used to think that because I could make good hits at 75 yards from a bench, this was my range. WRONG-O! A bit of field experience and realistic practice showed me that the true distance was more like 30 yards, and, with any kind of fudge factor, nearer to 20 yards. Be brutally honest with yourself about the limitations of your gear and your skill.

I have limited experience hunting deer with an iron-sighted, four-inch .357. With the best loads available (consider the 170 or 180 bullets, as fast as you can safely and controllably push ‘em,) home brewed or over the counter, this is still a marginal proposition without short range and perfect placement. Sure, it can be done. Heck, it CAN be done with a .22 rimfire. But we--most of us, anyway--are sports hunters. We owe it to ourselves and to the animals we hunt to make clean kills. The fact that you seek input on this forum indicates that you want to do it right.

I envy you the prospect of your hunt. Very best of luck to you.
Johnny
__________________
MOLON LABE!
Amendment II ensures the rest of the Bill of Rights.

Blog: Expert Witness
Johnny Guest is offline  
Old October 23, 2001, 12:42 PM   #9
300winguy
Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 2001
Location: Indiana
Posts: 70
I will be hunting on the hoosier national forest. I'm not much of a shot beyond 25 yards either.
300winguy is offline  
Old October 23, 2001, 01:37 PM   #10
Long Path
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 1999
Location: N. Texas
Posts: 5,888
I am a big believer in the 170 and 180 grain bullets for the .357 for deer. THAT SAID, I'm a bigger believer in practice, practice, practice. Typically, you'll practice more with the 158g loads. Why? Because they recoil less (muzzle flip with the 4" will be sumpin' fierce), and they're generally a little cheaper. (158 being far more standardized than 180 or 170, and they're, well, lighter.)

Johnny's got a good point on the practice kit. Practice bunches from a variety of field positions, and keep moving back (or up) to find the point where you can reliably keep 'em on that plate.

Me, I think I'd probably load a bunch of 2400 behind a 158g XTP, and practice, practice, practice. (Note: you can practice with a cheaper jacketed 158 loaded to the same velocity, for the same effect!)
__________________
"Welcome to The Firing Line, a virtual community dedicated to the discussion and advancement of responsible firearms ownership."T.F.L. Policy Page
Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap? ____________ Better and Better, the blog. _____
Long Path is offline  
Old October 23, 2001, 05:33 PM   #11
300winguy
Member
 
Join Date: August 27, 2001
Location: Indiana
Posts: 70
Thanks for all the info, I have a much clearer view of were the 357 fits into deer hunting. Two questions, I haven't been reloading 357 ammo for very long. I have been mostly using the middle of the road powders, not the slow burners like H110, 2400, and W296. Do I need a heavy crimp with these slow burners and 170-180gr. bullets? Second, from everything I have heard at gunshops etc, I have been lead to believe that twenty five yards is max range. What would you all see as the maximum range of this caliber, assuming the shooter is accurate at which ever range?max
300winguy is offline  
Old October 23, 2001, 09:04 PM   #12
Ben Shepherd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 11, 2001
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,462
357 out of pistol barrel: I would not take a shot at deer past 50 yards on a normal hunt, over 25 only with a piture-perfect target. (Survival situation obviously very different)
As far as actual loads, I agree with WESHOOT2, leaning toward the N110 powder out of his list.
__________________
From my cold dead hands.........

NRA certified rifle, pistol and shotgun instructor.
Hunter education instructor

Last edited by Ben Shepherd; October 23, 2001 at 09:54 PM.
Ben Shepherd is offline  
Old October 23, 2001, 09:28 PM   #13
Johnny Guest
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: August 28, 1999
Location: North Texas
Posts: 4,116
Max max range or Really MAAXXX range?

I tend to agree with the 25 yard max for sporting deer hunting situation with the .357, especially in a four-inch barrel with iron sights.

Energy is largely a funciton of velocity, even when using a bullet of goodly weight. There's only so much velocity you can get out of a four-inch bbl. The farther the bullet gets from the muzzle, the slower it gets.

This is not to say one cannot hit a deer in the vitals beyond 25 yards; only that the strike will be vary noticibly weaker at 50 yards than at 25. Will it get into the deer and do some damage? Surely. Will the deer die? Almost certainly. But if he's MY deer, I want him to stop right NOW, or within a few steps, and not two or three hundred yards away, through (invariably) the thickest brush in four counties. Also, the longer range show is less apt to exit the deer, leaving far less chance of a good blood trail. With practice, you can hit a deer at 100 yards with your revolver. Just not hard enough.

As to the handloading technique: Yes, you need to invest in a pound of 2400 or H110 or similar, slower burning powder, to extract maximum performance from the round. And yes, you need a heavy crimp on the bullet, to allow proper pressure to develop. You need all the pep you can get from your four-inch.

Given a longish barrel, for higher velocity and energy, plus a scope to ensure pinpoint placement, okay, fifty yards maybe. But this is not the situation under discussion.

Twenty-five yards, really.

Best,
Johnny
__________________
MOLON LABE!
Amendment II ensures the rest of the Bill of Rights.

Blog: Expert Witness
Johnny Guest is offline  
Old October 24, 2001, 01:29 AM   #14
Long Path
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 31, 1999
Location: N. Texas
Posts: 5,888
It's been done at longer.

And you'll read about it.

And you'll think one of two things:
  • [1]"That dude in the gunzine's a stunt-pullin' yahoo!"

    [2]"Those guys at TFL are a bunch of old ladies who clearly don't understand what a .357 mag is capable of!"

I read one gunzine writer who wrote of taking a deer with his .357 at 110 yds. Of course, he had an 8 5/8" barrel, a 4 power scope, and a custom action, pushing a 125g hp out at around 1700 fps, and he was a professional shooter who shot this stuff all the time, but, still and all, it was a stunt, plain and simple.

If you can put the shots 6 out of 6 on a paper plate at the range, I'll up the range to 35 yards, but you had better hit exactly what you're aiming at!

Good luck!

L.P.
__________________
"Welcome to The Firing Line, a virtual community dedicated to the discussion and advancement of responsible firearms ownership."T.F.L. Policy Page
Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap? ____________ Better and Better, the blog. _____
Long Path is offline  
Old October 24, 2001, 07:13 AM   #15
WESHOOT2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 1999
Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country)
Posts: 14,242
MORE

Heavy crimp using REDDING Profile Crimp die, 357 range limited by how far you can ALWAYS hit a paper plate, the cartridge when loaded correctly and fired through a Freedom Arms or Redhawk is a 150 yd deer cartridge.

My 4" GP hunting was limited to 100 yds (180g load).


Your results may vary.
__________________
.
"all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"
WESHOOT2 is offline  
Old October 28, 2001, 09:23 PM   #16
Dogjaw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 6, 2001
Location: S.W. Michigan
Posts: 560
Since folks are shooting deer all day long over 100 yards with 357 mag rifles, 50 yards is fine. Use Winchester 296 and magnum primers with those Sierra bullets. I personally use Hornady XTP's. A heavy bullet crimp is required with magnum powders. Here's the web site for Winchester's reloader manual 15. Down load it and look up the 357 data. Pay attention to the *. 296 powder charges should not be reduced.
http://www.winchester.com/ammunition...components.eye
Dogjaw is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10343 seconds with 9 queries