The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 25, 2001, 08:29 AM   #1
LASur5r+P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 28, 2001
Location: soCal,Republic of
Posts: 111
Bank robbery--busy elsewhere situation

I'd like your opinions on what went down (serveral times).

My wife used to work for a credit union in soCal that I believe the BG's used for practice. They robbed the cashier's ( Before my wife left) at a minimum of once a month.
Norman Bates on another thread kept refering to bank robberies going south and asked what response you might offer as a CCW carrier.

This was a typical armed robbery...four to six armed robbers would come in from the parking lot entrance at the rear. They'd stick a gun in the guard's back (unarmed), rush in in single file, spread out facing the office's and the cashier's counter in a circle facing outward. My wife worked in another office with a hallway parrallel to the hallway from the parking lot. Her section dealt strictly with paper work, no money except on paper.
As soon as the BG's yelled to quiet all the people and made it clear that they would shoot the guard if anyone resisted, one of the real agile guys would jump over the counter and clean out the counters of any cash.
Twice my wife was caught in the rear of the cashier's counter and had guns generally pointed in her direction.
A couple times, she said the robbers fired a round up in the ceiling to get everyone's attention. At allmost all of the robberies, she said that someone in the gang kept time and they were out of there in less than three minutes from the time of the BG jumping the counter.
\the last time, the boss decided to get real protection...they armed the same poor old guard...this time they hit him in the head in the parking lot....he died ...blunt trauma to the brain. Because he was armed, they really were ****** off this time and they tried to round everyone including her office section.
This time, my wife was standing at the end of the hallway entrance and saw the first BG putting his mask on,she immediately turned around the corner into her hallway and went quickly to her office and drew her weapon (S&W 3913)...she felt that just because they didn't shoot anyone in the past,....no prediction of the future, right? She got down under her desk and waited.
Her door to her office opened, she saw legs, but the BG then closed the door and yelled at someone else in the hallway.

She figured that if those legs got closer, she'd shoot him in the legs, then follow up if needed.

Comments? Criticisms? N.B. that was reality for her a minimum of ten times at that credit union.
__________________
proud to be an American.
LASur5r+P is offline  
Old October 25, 2001, 09:28 AM   #2
Art Eatman
Staff Lead
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX, USA
Posts: 22,515
Since your wife survived, she, herself did the right thing.

The owners of the business are the ones who created the situation. "...from the parking lot entrance at the rear." says it all. How vulnerable would one wish to be? You have peaceful clerks focussed on the front door and the lobby area--and, Whammo!

(A hindsight solution, to me, would have been a magnet-controlled back door, and a bulletproof-glass observation window.)

Which creates a thinking-point: If one is to consider employment in some firm which handles a good bit of cash, is the layout of the building and business inherently safe for the employees and customers?

Art
__________________
You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!
Art Eatman is offline  
Old October 25, 2001, 10:30 AM   #3
C.R.Sam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 29, 1999
Location: Dewey, AZ
Posts: 12,859
Building layout draws thieves better than my traps and mice.

She right to hold fire. Leg from under desk could get you hurt too. Multiple bad guys and tough defensive position.

Agree with Art

Sam
C.R.Sam is offline  
Old October 26, 2001, 02:39 AM   #4
LASur5r+P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 28, 2001
Location: soCal,Republic of
Posts: 111
Tough cookie

Thanks Sam and Art,
My wife is a tough little cookie...a lot of the employees quit working there. She hung in there out of loyalty to the old manager. (Stubborn may be more like it.)
Funny, the new place that she worked for? New building better neighborhood? They got hit one month from the grand opening. This time, their manager had bullet proof glass instyalled and the cashier's counter changed that it was only accesible from a rear hallway(non=reinforced door)
You guessed it, they got hit from the rear door three months later. We figured inside job...someone feeding information to the BG's. Now it is like a vault.

I don't think that the managers look defensively at the layout of a building when they lease or purchase it. They most likely just look at the cost to them in monthly payments.

What really ticked me off, was when I came in and made recommendations for cameras, doors, bullet proof glass, etc.., etc.

The manager's comment, was that it cost too much. So they talked privately to the old guard and they finally armed him instead of getting some professionals in. The old man was killed for not being vigilant and posing a threat to the BG's by having that gun but was not prepared to use it.
__________________
proud to be an American.
LASur5r+P is offline  
Old October 26, 2001, 07:57 AM   #5
buzz_knox
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 1999
Location: Knoxville, in the Free State of Tennesse
Posts: 4,191
It cost too much? What a moron! He knows that there is a probability of criminal activity and fails to take proper corrective action. That makes him liable for any injuries that result from said criminal activity. How much will that cost?
buzz_knox is offline  
Old October 26, 2001, 08:54 AM   #6
Norman Bates
Member
 
Join Date: October 10, 2001
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 87
LASur5r+P, thank you for your post.

Things are a bit the same in these parts. I wanted to pick your brains for some good ideas and the results are great.

Your post is more to the point of what i´m looking for since it´s less concered with legal implications and more with the actual robbery.

Our banks mostly are small stores, they refuse to install double doors to make a fast exit a difficult one and as you have stated, they´re more concerned but keeping a cheap operation than public security therefore no insurance coverage for customers, a few harmless cameras and striclty the minimum besides the poor cop at the entrance or/and a rent a cop armed with a scariest cell phone $ 10 can buy.

Most of the time, customers are not bothered at all since this would slow down the attack. Reponding police officers normally drag their feet responding since they really make minimum wage and are not willing to die for a lost cause. I sincerely can understand their position, not that i aprove of it but things are rough lately and they´re not properly trained or armed for such a confrontations.

Powers that be have made our dayly life such a mess...

Thank you again.

NB
__________________
Mother says i should stick to knives!

Leather by www.haugenhandgunleather.com/
Norman Bates is offline  
Old October 26, 2001, 02:28 PM   #7
Double Naught Spy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague County, Texas
Posts: 10,423
On this last robbery, I am curious, if your wife saw a bad guy putting on his mask, which I assume was actually before the start of the robbery, why did she just turn and go into her office? Why did she not yell a warning to the other employees?

I am perfectly fine with her holing up in her office during the robbery. I am just troubled that she was the only one who had any idea the place was going to get robbed before it did and didn't do anything sound the alarm. As such, everyone else was surprised when it happened.

Just curious, did she manage to press an alarm button or dial 911 in the process?
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher."
-- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011
Double Naught Spy is offline  
Old October 26, 2001, 05:29 PM   #8
parabellum9x19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2001
Posts: 113
Remember that there are color dye packs in some of the money so even if they get away with the money, the color dye packs will ruin the money.

Think before you shoot because if you hit some civilians in the bank you might end up in jail. If you are in jail don't drop the soap.
parabellum9x19 is offline  
Old October 27, 2001, 06:55 AM   #9
LASur5r+P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 28, 2001
Location: soCal,Republic of
Posts: 111
Buzz,Norman B., and Double Naught

Remember, I said management was a bunch of cheapskates?

Did not or would not spend money to improve security till much too late. No alarm buttons, slow response time of local PD, no armed guards on site...etc, etc...
BGs much more aggressive and violent if any people are excited.If tellers are calm and relaxed (read "caught by surprise") then they were less likely to respond other than to hand over the money.

Up to that point, only the guard had been rougted up...plus she said an overwhelming feeling of self-preservation came over her....thus her reaction.

Believe me, every single time, she went through the "what-ifs" afterwards. Lot of guilt. I think also ...work environment gave her few options as to affecting the robbery.
Also after this time where she saw the robbery...id'd the dudes for court later...when the FBI finally arrived...one of the agents actually said that my wife was kinda chicken (his words, within her hearing range.) She cried for days after that.
Talk about guilt.
__________________
proud to be an American.
LASur5r+P is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09802 seconds with 9 queries