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Old October 14, 2001, 11:36 AM   #1
Oleg Volk
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Which gas operated 12ga to avoid?

I keep seeing lots of inexpensive old 12 selfloaders of apparently good quality. Savage, obscure Browning models and lots of store brands...and I have no idea which to avoid. My criterea are 1)reliability 2)simplicity of operation [with Remington 1100 as the benchmark] and 3)availability of extended magazine tubes...nice but not essential. Suggestions, recommendations, caveats?

PS: Though I see even more Remington 11/Auto 5s, I'd rather have a gas gun: for some reason, 11 is awkward in my hands.
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Old October 14, 2001, 12:45 PM   #2
DLF
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It sounds like you really like the Remington 1100. Why not go ahead and get what you want. It fits your criteria and used models can usually be found at reasonable costs.

Good Shooting,
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Old October 14, 2001, 02:01 PM   #3
K80Geoff
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Best Gas Guns: Remington 1100, Browning Gold, Beretta 303/390/391, Winchester Super X.

The Remington 11-87 has had problems, some work, some don't. The new Franchi Gas gun looks promising but has no track record.

If you have around $8,000 to spend on a Cosmi, but they have no US importer and no one knows how to fix them.

Just about anything else is junk or not reliable.

My $.02 adjusted for inflation.

Geoff Ross
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Old October 14, 2001, 05:46 PM   #4
Lycanthrope
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What's up with those Charles Daly autoloaders at $299? Is it even possible to make a reliable auto for $299?


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Old October 14, 2001, 06:10 PM   #5
Edward429451
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I had a good experience with an 11/87 for a short time and then it was stolen. True enough, I didnt have it long enough to give it a proper evaluation but I did put a 10 round extended mag tube on it (I had to drill out the little dimple on the mag tube, piece of cake!). I had it long enough to put only a couple hundred rounds thru it with the ext. tube, no problems whatsoever.

With the 10 rnd tube in place it held;
10+1 2.75" shells
9+1 3" shells
8+1 3" slugs

Actually, I was thinking of replacing it, so I'd be interested in knowing what problems the 11/87's had/have to help me decide if I should replace it or not. I had no problems, how many of YOU have had problems with yours?
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Old October 14, 2001, 07:46 PM   #6
Dave McC
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I'm no auto expert, but if I had to rank the modern gas guns, they'd probably go like this, with the best at the top...

Berettas.303/390/391 series.

Remington 1100.

Winchester X-1 and now the X-2.

Browning Gold.

And then the rest.

11-87s got a bad rep when first out, and a few turkeys still show up periodically. Probs I hear about include triggers that bust,feeding glitches, and non concentric choke tubes. That last seems to be not limited to 11-87s, tho.

Unless you've a real affinity with one of the other autos, I'd stick to the Berettas, then the 1100, and MAYBE an 11-87. Addon stuff is very limited other than the 1100, so if someone cannot abide having a stock shotgun, the 1100 would be the way to go.
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Old October 14, 2001, 07:49 PM   #7
Oleg Volk
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Older 1187 police are my favorites. They tame recoil well. I also saw a nicely tricked out 1100, maybe that's the way to go.

Fired a 590 today (nasty whiplash-like recoil, gritty slide and safety that would turn on from recoil), Ithaca 37 (smooth, but lack of side ejection port and lack of disconnector would take getting used to). I see rather few older gas autos, maybe that's a hint on their reliability and longevity. FWIW, I'd like to stick to older guns now. Even a Sears cheapo pump I saw today was of better built than most expensive new guns.

Franchi 612 Defense has perfect specs and pointing BUT the manual of arms mimics a Benelli and I dislike that.
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Old October 14, 2001, 07:53 PM   #8
Will Beararms
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There is no such thing as an inexpensive semi-auto shotgun. I grew up in the home of a rabid duck hunter. Semi's don't come cheap and even then, they will need to be maintenanced and they will break.

I have have been exposed to Brownings, Remingtons, Benelli's and Beretta's. I prefer the Beretta based upon seeing the experiences of others. The Beretta 390/391 will eat anything you load it with and they recoil oh so gently.
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Old October 19, 2001, 11:52 PM   #9
Joe Botz
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I received a M92001A1 "Jungle Gun" as a birthday present from my daughter,, I was not sure about this piece at first but after running a couple of hundred rounds through it,,and after putting a mag extension on it I like it very much,,,a reliable firearm now after a breaking it in ,,fast
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Old October 20, 2001, 12:34 AM   #10
TACTICALDUDE
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Hi Oleg,
I'm planning to get the Franchi 612 defense , can u please elaborate on what you dont like (manual of arms) on the Franchi model 612?
Thanks
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Old October 20, 2001, 02:08 AM   #11
Oleg Volk
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In order to load from the magazine, the user must hit a button. Simply cycling the bolt does nothing. IMO, that's too complicated for a fighting gun.
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Old October 22, 2001, 07:26 AM   #12
Brooks
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IZH

Oleg,

What about a new Russian shotgun for the price of used?

Gander Mountain is now stocking the Russian IZH shotguns. I bought an O/U on sale for $349 Saturday in Woodbury,MN.

It was an impulse buy. I looked it over and it was a lot nicer than I had expected with walnut and stock fitting at least as good as the Ruger.

The pump was selling for $179 and I didn't take the time to look at the semi-auto.

It has decent wood stained darkly and can of course take 3 1/2" shells. I'll bet the Russian guns will give Mossberg some competion that they won't be able to handle.

Gander Mountain had four Rem. 1100's on the used rack (Maplewood store) but they were obviously new, selling for $649.
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Old October 26, 2001, 04:56 PM   #13
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Oleg,

The manual of arms on a Franchi/Benelli isn't so bad if you load through the ejection port (cf Gabe Suarez's The Tactical Shotgun). The rest is just like shooting any other autoloaders.

Regarding the Remington 1100, might want to ask other Rem 1100 owners about that pesky o-ring that supposedly needs replacing every so often and that costs a pretty penny for a rubber donut....

Justin
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Old October 26, 2001, 07:34 PM   #14
Will Beararms
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jthuang: I am not a tactical shotgunner but I am a serious duck/dove and or wing shooter. The remington o-ring can be substituted with the mag lite o-ring.

It's a simple chore to do and they do usually last longer than one would think. My dad has 2 1187's that have broken down but they have been great weapons.

I don't mind pressing the little button on the Beretta. It is habit now.
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