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Old August 20, 2001, 09:24 AM   #1
RH Factor
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What's the difference IDPA and IPSC

I've seen some pictures of a IDPA shoot but what is a IPSC shoot? I have the opportunity to join a gun club that shhots IPSC style matches, and I have no idea what it is. Alittle help please.
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Old August 20, 2001, 09:32 AM   #2
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IPSC IS MORE FUN

More 'runnin' and gunnin', more rounds fired, less 'tactical', better rules IMNSHO.

Your results may vary.
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Old August 20, 2001, 12:16 PM   #3
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RH Factor The best thing you can do is just go to a IDPA and IPSC match and watch it and see if you would like to try that. Are club shoots both type of matches.
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Old August 21, 2001, 12:46 PM   #4
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AndyP

You can go to www.uspsa.com to learn more about USPSA/IPSC. To be a little more specific on some differences:

The targets are the same outline, but have different scoring areas.

The scoring method is different, but it still measures accuracy and speed in combination.

Knock-down steel "popper" targets are often used.

Single stages can be longer than those in IDPA, sometimes up to as many as 30 rounds. They also tend to be more varied and interesting.

To reload you just drop the old mag and put in a new one. No "tactical reloads" or "reloads with retention."

Pre-ban high capacity magazines are used in some of the gun divisions, but aren't necessary for Limited 10 and Production.

You can carry as many mags on your belt as you want. The most common number is 4.

There are different divisions for guns, Open, Limited, Limited 10, Production, and Revolver. If you don't have hi-cap mags, your IDPA gun will either be Limited 10 or Production. If you shoot 9mm, it's best to be in Production from a competitive point of view, but Production has rather restrictive rules on equipment to limit it to stock DA first shot guns.

Except in Production, fancy hi-speed "race" holsters are allowed, but not necessary. There are no draws from concealment.

In my experience, IPSC shooters are, on average, more intense and more competitive. They are still friendly and helpful, however. The people in the local club make a big difference in one's experience. I started in IPSC and later got involved with IDPA and have no confusion shooting both. I met a guy in IDPA and invited him to our IPSC matches and he was immediately hooked.

Good luck, and enjoy!

AndyP
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Old August 21, 2001, 06:23 PM   #5
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I shoot both.

They are very similar, except that IPSC tends to emphasize speed while IDPA tends to emphasize tactics.

Please bear in mind that IDPA, along with ICOR, and Single Stack, are splinter groups that left IPSC because of what they felt were shortcomings in the IPSC philosophy. IPDA felt that the equipment race had made the guns used in IPSC totally unreaslitic in everyday carry use. ICOR (International Congress of Revolver Enthusiasts) felt that the high round counts and long strings made use of a revolver unrealistic. Single Stack felt that the trend to super large capacity magazines was unrealistic, and against the True Faith, the 1911.

In response to these defections, USPSA has introduced the Limited 10 class. Required equipment that might actually be of use in the real world, and banned the eight shot revolver from the revolver class (also new).

While there's still room for the unlimited pistols used in the USPSA Open Class, by far the largest numbers of shooters are now to be found in the Production, Limited, and Limited 10 classes.


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Old August 22, 2001, 08:43 AM   #6
First On Race Day
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I shoot in both too.
IDPA is more annal with less targets and more use of cover (subjective). It is also more prone to complaints like "that's not realistic" or "that would never happen" than IPSC. But fun, don't get me wrong. Same great people that are in IPSC matches.

Whereas IPSC, you know you are there to put rounds down range with high speed guns as fast as possible. That's the major difference that I've noticed.
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Old August 22, 2001, 04:11 PM   #7
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I started in IPSC four years ago, and have been shooting IDPA as well, for two years. I would say the primary difference is in how you approach the target. In IDPA, the targets are considered "threats"; you treat them as if they're shooting back. That's why you use available cover, and reload your gun to capacity before looking for the next array. IPSC targets are just so much bullet fodder; go find them and shoot them. You reload, move, and do everything else when it is most time-efficient. If you can move and shoot really fast, you can become a pretty good IPSC competitor, even if your'e not a great shot. IDPA scoring penalizes misses and peripheral hits to such a great extent, that you can't run and shoot fast enough to make up for it. They are both great fun! A Glock or single stack .45 will serve well in either game.
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Old August 22, 2001, 05:59 PM   #8
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There is no penalty for a miss in IDPA but there is a minus 10 point penalty for a miss in IPSC/USPSA.

A shot into a no-shoot target is penalized in both sports.
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Old August 22, 2001, 06:51 PM   #9
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Since 2.5 seconds is added to your time for each miss, I wouldn't say there's "no penalty" in IDPA. No penalty on top of the points down, but misses aren't free.
While we're discussing no-shoots: If you hit a no-shoot multiple times in IPSC, you get a 10-point penalty for each one; if you hit a no-shoot (non-threat) target in IDPA, you get one 5-second penalty regardless of how many time you hit it. And, any rounds that pass through a non-threat target and hit a threat target are scored like any other hit.
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Old August 24, 2001, 06:37 AM   #10
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Just try them both out

My club shoots IDPA, but I have also shot IPSC (and IDPA) while on the road. Both are enjoyable. Both are peopled by nice folks. Both involve shooting. What more do I need to know?

They are a bit different, but the fundamentals are the same... i.e. if you hit the center or head of the target, you score best.

In my experience, the only noticeable differences where

1. IPSC doesn't use cover.
2. IPSC uses more targets per string (but less strings).
3. IDPA is more realistic in terms of scenarios.
4. IDPA scoring is easier to understand.

I like shooting. I like them both. Why choose? Just shoot in whatever you have the opportunity to shoot.

Enjoy!

Amelia
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Old August 24, 2001, 10:34 AM   #11
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There's also strange differences in rules.

In IDPA, 2 shots into a no-shoot is scored the same as 1 shot. IPSC penalizes all 2 shots.

Also in IDPA if you shoot a threat and the bullet passes through a no shoot, the shot in the no shoot doesn't count. If you shoot a no shoot and the shot passes through a threat, that bullet counts in the threat. IPSC is the other way around.

IDPA stages are set up so there's only one way to shoot it. IPSC allows the shooter to decide, many IPSC field stages make you start in the 1st box, shoot everything as you see them and finish in the 2nd box.
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Old August 24, 2001, 09:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Also in IDPA if you shoot a threat and the bullet passes through a no shoot, the shot in the no shoot doesn't count. If you shoot a no shoot and the shot passes through a threat, that bullet counts in the threat. IPSC is the other way around.
Actually in IDPA all shoot-throughs count, both ways. But no shoot-throughs count in IPSC, since all targets are considered inpenetrable.
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Old August 25, 2001, 11:00 AM   #13
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Shoot thru do count in IPSC. Course designers have to make sure none are available. There have been major matches won because a competitor found a position to get a shoot thru on multiple targets.
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Old August 25, 2001, 09:12 PM   #14
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SEE? TOO MANY RULES

But in IPSC you can have more fun because the 4 rules are really the only ones you use (except you must maintain personal sportsmanship).
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Old August 26, 2001, 11:51 AM   #15
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Sorry, but shoot-throughs do not count in IPSC. A full-diameter hit inside of the non-scoring border of one target effectively nullifies any other hit on any other target that that bullet may make, as all targets are considered hard cover. A hit on the non-scoring border that also strikes another target will count for both targets, but this is not a shoot-through.

The question then becomes, how can it be determined that there was indeed a shoot-through? On a high round count field course, this can be very difficult to do. But on a speed-shoot, shoot-throughs are routinely disallowed
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Old August 27, 2001, 02:42 PM   #16
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There is no miss penalty in IDPA. The shooter just loses the possible 5 points by missing the shot.

In USPSA/IPSC the shooter also loses the possible 5 points with a miss. In addition, the shooter is charged a minus 10 point penalty for each miss.
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Old August 27, 2001, 02:53 PM   #17
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I think of IDPA as IPSC Lite. In IDPA the course designer determines exactly how the shooter must shoot the course and engage the targets. In IPSC/USPSA the shooter generally decides how they are going to approach the stage and they decide for themselves their strategy for engaging the targets. This helps the IPSC shooter to learn to think on their feet and shoot fast and accurately.

I think that IPSC/USPSA will make one a better shooter faster that IDPA will.

In real life shootings, studies show that the shooter reacts and fires to end the fight, frequently to slidelock, before they ever have a chance to even consider using cover.

I love to shoot both sports and appreciate the opportunity very much. I thank all the volunteers that provide the matches.
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Old August 28, 2001, 10:30 AM   #18
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No miss penalty?

Banjobart,

There is a miss penalty if it is a Vickers scored stage. This is because if the stage requires a specific number of rounds and you don't put them on the target you receive a procedural. It happened to me on the second stage I shot at the IDPA Nationals last year. It required four and I only put two. That cost me eight seconds. No, I didn't miss, I just was in the habit of only putting two rounds on a target. Havn't made that mistake again.
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Old August 29, 2001, 01:05 PM   #19
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i shoot to shoot and you do alot more shooting in ipsc.
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Old August 29, 2001, 10:58 PM   #20
banjobart
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Thats' still not really an IDPA miss penalty. It's more of a failure to follow the prescribed course of fire. This would also ap[ply to IPSC.

IPSC does have true a miss penalty in all cases, for no other reason than that the shooter missed a shot.
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Old August 30, 2001, 12:01 PM   #21
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In IPSC, is it a miss penalty, or a penalty for failure to place two shots on the target?

On a Comstock scored stage, I can shoot at (and miss) a target as many times as I want. If I eventually place two shots on that target, regardless of the number of misses I have in trying to accomplish that, there is no penalty.

On a Virginia count stage, I can also miss a target as many times as I want. If I eventually place two shots on target, I will receive penalties for extra shots, but no "miss" penalty.
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Old August 30, 2001, 12:44 PM   #22
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In IPSC, you get a "miss" penalty for not having two scoring hits on the target (unless the stage course of fire says otherwise); if you don't have ANY hits on the target, and the RO says that you didn't fire at the target, then you get 2 "Mikes" (-10 each) AND a "Procedural" penalty for failing to engage that target. I RO and shoot IPSC, but haven't done anything in IDPA.
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