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Old July 24, 2001, 09:52 AM   #1
madmike
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.30-30 penetration

In a discusssion of the novel "1632" by Eric Flint (a good fun read with modern gun owners (and the rest of the village) dragged back in time to the 30 Years War and blowing away rapists, pillagers, and those who would destroy Western Civilization as it was then. (okay, that's oversimplified, but it's a fun read):

A character takes a head shot rather than try to shoot through a steel breastplate. Reasonable, since he actually doesn't know where he is or what it is.

Would a .30-30 softpoint pierce 18 ga at 100 yds? I say yes. Anyone with a big backyard want to do a quick test?
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Old July 24, 2001, 11:14 AM   #2
EuroMan
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30-30 and steel.

I have not shot much steel with the 30-30 but have shot a lot with rifles from .222Rem to the .308Win . At 100yds the .222Rem will penetrate free standing 1/4" tread plate with 50gr soft points. The .308 will punch 1/2" (1018) plate with 150 gr sp's. I am certain a 30-30 150gr flat pt would punch 18ga & would probably penetrate 3/16" or thicker @ 100yds. Even if the bullet did not penetrate, the 150 or 170gr bullet from a 30-30 would most definitely stop any BG as it would transfer all of its energy to the subject causing severe if not fatal trauma. I read that there are now vests rated for the .308Win. I have doubts that one of these would save ones life even if stopping the bullet as the amount of damage due to ruptured internal organs and blood vessels would have to be considered. The 30-30 in a lever-action may be the BEST urban tactical/ battle rifle to be had. It is accurate, penetrates barriers (autos) well, ammo availability ( most any sporting store has it on the shelf in quantity), & it's light & quik handling. Hope I have answered your question.
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Old July 24, 2001, 12:33 PM   #3
madmike
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Ballistic energy is insufficient without penetration. The "Deadly Weapons" video shows a man taking a .308 at point blank in a vest, no side effects.

I agree .30-30 should penetrate. Anyone else?
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Old July 24, 2001, 01:45 PM   #4
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While at the rainy range this morning, my target holder (realator's sign) took a direct hit from my mini 14 on some of the thicker metal (1/8") at 100 yards..hey,no one was there and i was trying to get it to "slam-fire".Shooting Wolf 62g,my bullet made a clean hole at entrance and a nasty shredded hole as it exited.This metal was heavier than 18 gauge.I would say a 30-30 would go thru at least 1/4"-3/8's thick metal no problem.Only one way to find out..........(as long as its safe).Guess it depended on what type of metal though.
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Old July 24, 2001, 01:53 PM   #5
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30-30 will penetrate Threat IIA and probably II.
It will not penetrate Threat IV, which will stop 10 rounds of M1 30-06 AP at 10 ft.
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Old July 24, 2001, 08:30 PM   #6
Cosmoline
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I like to think of it this way..

The "lowly" .30-30 delivers about as much energy as the "mighty" .454 Casull (i.e., between 1,200 and 1,900 ft. lbs.).
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Old July 24, 2001, 09:29 PM   #7
Bud Helms
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"Would a .30-30 softpoint pierce 18 ga at 100 yds? "

Hell, yes! 18 ga steel is really thin.
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Old July 25, 2001, 04:07 AM   #8
Archie
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Not to mention that....

plate armor and chain mail were designed to protect primarily from slashing weapons (large swords) and blunt impact weapons (maces, morning stars, and premordial baseball bats).

A pre-firearm device for defeating plate armor and chain mail was a "push dagger". A triangular cross section blade, much like a machinist's scraper, with a "T" handle.

Cross bows would penetrate armor, as would long bows.

Based on personal experience, I've witnessed a .30-30 punch right through a .250" mild steel plate.

18 guage? In a heartbeat.
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Old July 25, 2001, 08:45 AM   #9
madmike
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Actually, the "rondel" dagger (Triangular nail with large head and grip) was designed for armor. The push dagger is a 20th cent invention, AFAIK.

There was some question as to the penetration of soft points, but at that velocity and cross-section, I don't think it would matter.

It made sense in context, since the shooters had no idea what their opponents were wearing.

The debate goes on...
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Old July 25, 2001, 01:17 PM   #10
Steel
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18 ga is real thin....
(sorry if this chart looks jumbled)


Sheet Metal Gauge Chart

GAGE NO. STEEL STAINLESS STL. ALUM.
7 .179 - -
8 .164 .172 -
9 .150 .156 -
10 .135 .141 -
11 .120 .125 -
12 .105 .109 -
13 .090 .094 .093
14 .075 .078 .079
15 .067 .070 .071
16 .060 .063 .064
17 .054 .056 .058
18 .048 .050 .052
19 .042 .044 .046
20 .036 .038 .040
21 .033 .034 .037
22 .030 .031 .034
23 .027 .028 .031
24 .024 .025 .028
25 .021 .022 .025
26 .018 .019 .022
27 .016 .017 .019
28 .015 .016 -
29 .014 .014 -
30 .012 .013 -
31 - .011 -

*All Values are in Inches.
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