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Old June 8, 2001, 01:40 PM   #1
Point Blank
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Ok,my Lee Classic arrived yesterday and i am very eager to start making bullets for my Savage 110 30-06.The kit included a little "cheat sheet" with reccomended powders for different grain bullets.I would like to start with 150 grain JSP bullets.The sheet says use 45.6 grains of IMR4064 to get around 2532 FPS,or 51.5 grains of H414 to get around 2699 FPS.It was suggested a week or so ago on this board that i should get IMR4895.They have that listed as a suggested load for 110 grain jacketed bullets(46.7g)but not for the 150g bullets....How many grains of the 4895 would i use for the 150g jacketed load???And please...if its going to be "too hot",let me know as i am using my WIFE as a guinea pig to fire the first few that we make!!!!!Hahahahahahahah...(kiddin)Thanks for any advice!!!!!
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Old June 8, 2001, 02:07 PM   #2
Mal H
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First off, the data that comes with the Lee loaders does not contain good data. It's not necessarily bad, but they have always catered to very light loads. All the loads you mentioned are well below the minimums in the Speer manual for example. I wouldn't be concerned about it, you won't have a KB with most light loads in rifle cartridges. However, if you don't have one, I highly recommend purchasing a reloading manual (or two). Speer, Hornady, Lyman and Nosler are all good ones to look at and besides they are interesting reading.

As for a 150 gr. bullet and 4895, 45.0 gr. is a good starting point and 49.5 gr. is the max.

Actually you should let your wife test those loads if she isn't into rifle shooting. She might think the recoil isn't as bad as everyone says after all.
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Old June 8, 2001, 03:30 PM   #3
Unkel Gilbey
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I think that just about everybody that reads here will agree that you cannot have enough loading referrences on your loading bench. Just going with one load book limits your options, and could also get you into a potentially dangerous situation.

For instance, let's say that you only had a loading book from the 70's or (god forbid) the 60's? There have been enough changes in the formula's for different powders that a certain charge of powder from today's lot's - using data that was formulated from lots that are 30 -40 years old, could result in either a dangerously high or low pressure load.

Chances are you'll be safe, but who wants to take that chance? I say, you cannot get enough information. Get as many books as Momma will let you, and then get a idea what they all have to say about a certain powder, pushing a certain bullet, at a certain velocity. If they all agree, then you are good to go. But if there's some disparity, then it's better to err on the side of caution. Start at the beginning and increase a few grains (or tenths of grains) until you get good results.

This isn't anything different then what the load books will tell you, but sometimes its good to hear this from another source. Better to start slowly and increase gradually then to have the bolt get stuck from a hot load, or to lose a hand or some fingers or an eye or something worse from a shattered action.

Take it easy and get some more loading books! And good luck! Unkel Gilbey

PS: I like either IMR4895 or IMR4064 with 180 grain bullets in my Ruger M77. Good Elk medicine.
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Old June 8, 2001, 04:56 PM   #4
Bud Helms
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Amen on the "you can't have too many loading references."

I use W760 for .30-'06. Purt' near a full case.
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Old June 8, 2001, 07:00 PM   #5
Point Blank
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Thanks so much for the replies!!!I will start looking for a few good books to help me out.After shopping for prices on powder,primers,and bullets i cannot find lower prices than Georgia Arms.They have 1lb. of IMR4895 for $15.95 and they are close, so no shipping costs!!!Another thing i found i have to buy very soon is a digital scale as the "scale" used with the Lee Classic is a plastic scoop....heheeh.Thanks again.
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Old June 8, 2001, 10:26 PM   #6
Mal H
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A digital scale is a very good thing to have, but the old beam scale is just as accurate if not more so. IMO, it's also just about as fast to get a good weighing with one as it is with a digital. Whichever you decide to get is fine, but a scale is a must if you want to go for more repeatable loads. Don't throw those scoops away though. They make excellent powder scoops (duh!) for use with a scale. I think they must have a coating of some type that bleeds off static electricity because they don't let the powder cling to them like other plastic implements would do.
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Old June 11, 2001, 04:54 PM   #7
Sub MOA
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Hey Point Blank,

Before you go buy a keg of IMR, you might want to consider the Hodgdon version of 4895. I have found the Hodgdon "Extreme" powders to be very clean burning with good velocity and good accuracy in most applications. They are also billed as being "temperature insensitive" which I can attest to firsthand (90 degrees or snow on the ground, same group size, same POI).

I will concur with those saying get ahold of as many reloading manuals as you can. Also, many powder manufacturers will have data online. Usually it is pretty basic, but it will give you a basis for comparison.

HTH,
Sub
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Old June 11, 2001, 06:00 PM   #8
Point Blank
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Thanks,i will remember that...Sadly,my first attempt at reloading put me up as a front-runner for the Darwin awards....Shot out to Georgia Arms early today and picked up 1lb. of IMR4895,200 bullets,and and U-Haul(1,000)full of primers(couldnt buy less).I decided i would go to Advanced bullets to do a little shooting since i was so close,did "ok", then sped home wanting to start reloading.The VERY FIRST step....depriming, resulted in a broke depriming tool...i was devestated and slumped into a ball....yep,broke that little pin that knocks the old primer out of fired case!!! Called Lee to find out how much i need to send for a new one and the lady was very nice and said,"This ones on the house". Soooooooooooo...as much as i was looking forward to my mastering this art is on hold untill i get that new depriming tool.Believe me,i immediatley started thinking what i could use untill it shows up..peice of coat hanger,etc. Can you imagine,all set up.....then break that $#$!$ thing???Whew......
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Old June 11, 2001, 08:45 PM   #9
Mal H
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Man, that is the first time I have heard of the Lee depriming tool breaking! I keep a bushel basket of RCBS depriming rods handy, but after using the Lee for over 30 years, it still hasn't broken. Maybe the pin wasn't in the flash hole and you hit it extra hard when the primer wouldn't come out. ??

If you have a grinding wheel or know of someone with one, you can make your own out of a 16p nail. Just keep turning it as you hold it against the side of the wheel until you get to the size you need. Obviously, you only need to grind down about 1 inch or so of it.
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Old June 11, 2001, 09:19 PM   #10
Point Blank
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Very good idea!! I do have a grinder out in my shed and will make one tommorrow morning.I looked down the case which broke my pin and i was not in the hole, as i see three different dimples where i was wackin..guess i just assumed the pin had no choice but to go in the hole,i will be more careful when new one gets here!!Might not even use it if that nail trick works!!Thanks....The thing that really baffles me about reloading though is "tinkering"with different amounts of powder to get the most accurate load....say i load 10 to specs and they are 6" high,and to the left @100 yards,would you decrease amount to bring it down some,add a little more to flatten out more,or adjust scope and shoot more!!! And please dont anyone suggest taking up rummy or checkers instead....i am already hooked and havent even made a shell yet!!!!!!!!!!
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Old June 12, 2001, 10:13 PM   #11
tawakoni
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Point Blank, in answer to your last question, when you find a load that gives you a 'group' you are satisfied with, just adjust the scope to move the group to your point-of-aim. I usually test my loads in groups of 3 to begin with, and then use 5-shot groups for the final tests.

Best,

tawakoni
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Old June 13, 2001, 08:01 PM   #12
Art Eatman
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Starting loads: 110-grain bullet, 50.0 grains of 3031. (I use around 7% more.)

150-grain bullet, 50.0 grains of 4064. (I use around 5% more.)

I have used these loads since 1950, with different brands of primers and Lord knows how many different lot#s of powder.

Caveat: Winchester's Fail Safe bullets are allegedly of a harder jacket material, and max loads should be reduced below one's "normal" max. (Dunno, really; I got a 1" by 12" 3-shot group with the danged things and quit 'em.)

If you go to a model airplane type of hobby shop, they have fairly hard "wire" in 30" or 36" lengths. Buy one piece which is the same OD as your de-caping pin...A lifetime supply for a dollar or less.

Art
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Old June 13, 2001, 09:04 PM   #13
Point Blank
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Thanks so much for the advice!! I did make a de-priming tool out of a nail and made 1 box(20) plus 10 "special recipe" bullets.Since i have no scale, YET,i had to buy IMR 4064 today to even begin reloading.See,they send a little cheat sheet with suggested loads using only their "dipper"(scale).....One level dip is only 45.6g of IMR 4064 so thats what i made 20 with.My 10 "power loads"(hahaha)have a "little" extra powder.I need a scale bad,and by luck,my new deprimer showed up today..very fast!!!!Inside the packing they had a peice of paper with discounted supplies listed...and my scale is on there at only $20.00(only $2 shipping too!!!!!).Their website has the same one for $29.98 and from what they say about it,its very accurate.I found out that a scale is a must to tinker with different loads!!I will definitley write down that "secret recipe" of 50.0g of IMR and load some better ones when that scale gets here.I have went to different sites and copied some different load recipes,but again,i need that scale....which WILL be ordered by phone in the morning.Although i am 39 i havent done very much shooting,so i am not very accurate(yet).With maybe 150 total shots out of a 30-06 i am getting 3-6 inch groups with factory bullets.Hopefully me and my Savage will get better reloading.I spent half the day cleanin her up for tommorrow morning at Advanced Bullets!!!I Flitzed the barrel and got many black patches then oiled her up.I wont be dissapointed if my 45.6g shoot bad because i had a blast making them,plus..watch out Georgia Bullseye Champ.....my scale is in the mail..yehaw!!!!!!! Thanks all and hope i didnt bore ya if you read this long post!!
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Old June 13, 2001, 10:18 PM   #14
Mal H
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Things seem to be coming together, eh? Tinkering with the loads is a big part of the fun of reloading.

No problem with the long post, but you have got to get that spacebar fixed.
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Old June 14, 2001, 01:16 PM   #15
Art Eatman
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I've picked up a pretty fair amount of good used reloading stuff at gunshows. Half-price, generally, is about as bad as it gets.
Sometimes less, if you can bargain pretty good and know what the discount stores get for new stuff.

Loading for the '06, calibrating a scale is easy. Just use a .224 bullet of 50 grains weight. If your scale is within one grain of what the bullet is supposed to weigh, you're okay. Just work up gradually. If primers start to flatten back off.

Always keep notes. Write down your data. Get some felt-tipped pens and color code in the head-stamp lettering.

Generally, the most accurate load will be a tad under the maximum pressure load.

FWIW, Art
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Old June 14, 2001, 02:55 PM   #16
Point Blank
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Very good idea about using the 50g to calibrate,thanks.I did order that Lee scale today.Went to the range today with my first reloads,the light loads (45.6 of 4064) were kinda erratic,but the ones i "eyeballed" slightly hotter without a scale did better.I am going to wait for the scale before reloading more so i can load more to the max pressure.Kinda got a reality slap in the face though today by the owner of the range i frequent (Advanced Bullets).I was there at 9:00am to shoot,and since i was the only one there i begged him to come out and shoot my Savage 30-06 since he is a very good shot and i will be able to see the guns potential.He loaded 3 of his reloads and two of them were maybe 1 1/2 inches apart in the bullseye, and the other one maybe 3 inches over to the side.He told me its a very good deer gun,but its no bench gun.Since i dont hunt deer i am (was) hoping to get to be a better paper shooter by experience and reloading,but i am wondering now........is it a waste of time to try to get me and this $362 Savage 30-06 "package deal" gun into a 1 inch or better shooter??? Kinda wished i wouldnt have let him shoot it now,it kinda took some of the wind out of my sail,i look at her now like i would a cheatin women...instead of a princess (hahahahahaha). Noway i will ever sell or trade her off though,but i am no wondering if i am wasting my time at the bench with this gun....... BTW...that felt marker tip is a very good idea,thanks!! Oh...and notes?? i already have a bunch i have accumulated in the past month,and adding more everyday!!
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